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Post by queen1970s on Aug 23, 2020 9:13:29 GMT
Let's talk about the song "Mad The Swine". what's your thoughts and opinions on this song? in my opinion it's a very good track and one of the great songs from Queen's early years. Freddie's songwriting skills are interesting on this song. some sources claimed that he played the percussions on this song, I'm not sure about if it's true or not but if it's it'll turn to a very rare song that featured Freddie on that instrument.
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CoolCat
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Post by CoolCat on Aug 23, 2020 9:42:47 GMT
I love it! I think they should have kept it on the album, it‘s really good.
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Aug 23, 2020 9:49:42 GMT
It's definitely not terrible, but I get why they left it off - aside from any considerations of quality, it just doesn't fit in with the flow of Queen I. I do think that, if it had been part of the record from the start, I'd rank it in the bottom half of the songs - the occasionally very cheesy lyrics and the lack of anything actually surprising musically are to blame for that. For most other bands just starting off, I would probably have appreciated it more - there are just so many songs on Queen I that are a lot better, making MTS look a little shabby in comparison.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 23, 2020 9:56:39 GMT
It's not bad, but definitely 'B side' material in my opinion.
I've always been a little curious as to the slightly 'cut' sounding intro, possibly indicating it was once segued with another track?
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 23, 2020 10:11:27 GMT
It's not bad, but definitely 'B side' material in my opinion. I've always been a little curious as to the slightly 'cut' sounding intro, possibly indicating it was once segued with another track? It was planned to be in the middle of "My Fairy King" and "Great King Rat". I think it segued from "My Fairy King"
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 23, 2020 10:17:44 GMT
It's definitely not terrible, but I get why they left it off - aside from any considerations of quality, it just doesn't fit in with the flow of Queen I. I do think that, if it had been part of the record from the start, I'd rank it in the bottom half of the songs - the occasionally very cheesy lyrics and the lack of anything actually surprising musically are to blame for that. For most other bands just starting off, I would probably have appreciated it more - there are just so many songs on Queen I that are a lot better, making MTS look a little shabby in comparison. You're probably right. I can't imagine it in any album except Queen I like most of the tracks from that album are early songs so MTS was but I think as @lord Fickle said it would be good as a B-side track. I think it would be good if they put it on the first album but I think it would be better to be a B-side song for one of the first album tracks
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 23, 2020 10:41:51 GMT
It's definitely not terrible, but I get why they left it off - aside from any considerations of quality, it just doesn't fit in with the flow of Queen I. I do think that, if it had been part of the record from the start, I'd rank it in the bottom half of the songs - the occasionally very cheesy lyrics and the lack of anything actually surprising musically are to blame for that. For most other bands just starting off, I would probably have appreciated it more - there are just so many songs on Queen I that are a lot better, making MTS look a little shabby in comparison. You're probably right. I can't imagine it in any album except Queen I like most of the tracks from that album are early songs so MTS was but I think as @lord Fickle said it would be good as a B-side track. I think it would be good if they put it on the first album but I think it would be better to be a B-side song for one of the first album tracks on my Hollywood Records CD of Queen I - MTS is tagged on as a bonus with KYA long-lost retake and Liar remix. it does a feel a little out of place. wonder if burning a copy of this CD with it sandwiched between MFK and GKR would remedy things a little?
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CoolCat
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Post by CoolCat on Aug 23, 2020 11:23:22 GMT
It's not bad, but definitely 'B side' material in my opinion. I've always been a little curious as to the slightly 'cut' sounding intro, possibly indicating it was once segued with another track? It was planned to be in the middle of "My Fairy King" and "Great King Rat". I think it segued from "My Fairy King" But then it would have been between MFK and Liar, because GKR comes first. Tried that out of curiosity and it would have worked for me. But that’s just my humble opinion.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 23, 2020 11:40:56 GMT
In my opinion I don't like the start very much, it's not until Freddie sings "Three feet tall so very small I'm no trouble" that it becomes a great track. I just don't like the link between "no sandals" and "ages past" it seems overdone. The drums and percussion is supposedly the reason why it wasn't on the album with the mix but another is that it's another religious song (Liar and Jesus are two of them on the album).
Other than the start there's nothing else I can criticise about it. It's just a shame Queen didn't release it in anyway in 1973/74. But it did get played live at least once so they must've liked it enough to not just be forgotten about from recording it.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 23, 2020 16:05:37 GMT
It was planned to be in the middle of "My Fairy King" and "Great King Rat". I think it segued from "My Fairy King" But then it would have been between MFK and Liar, because GKR comes first. Tried that out of curiosity and it would have worked for me. But that’s just my humble opinion. not really possible as a segue. MFK = end of side1, Liar = start of side2. we'd just transposed MFK and GKR running order. i've just tried the three tracks (in Audition) as suggested initially: GKR > MTS > MFKand it works really well
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 23, 2020 16:30:51 GMT
In my opinion I don't like the start very much, it's not until Freddie sings "Three feet tall so very small I'm no trouble" that it becomes a great track. I just don't like the link between "no sandals" and "ages past" it seems overdone. The drums and percussion is supposedly the reason why it wasn't on the album with the mix but another is that it's another religious song (Liar and Jesus are two of them on the album). Other than the start there's nothing else I can criticise about it. It's just a shame Queen didn't release it in anyway in 1973/74. But it did get played live at least once so they must've liked it enough to not just be forgotten about from recording it. I didn't notice that it's a religious song and I can't see it like that. The song actually never performed live in my opinion it's just a rumour that came from an unknown source that claimed it was played live at Mid-South coliseum, Memphis, USA on April 20th 1974. And Liar and Jesus aren't religious songs cause Freddie wasn't a religious person at all. Liar was a love song this is one of the reasons that it's released on Valentine 1974. Jesus was a song that Freddie wrote about changing the religion.
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 23, 2020 16:33:02 GMT
But then it would have been between MFK and Liar, because GKR comes first. Tried that out of curiosity and it would have worked for me. But that’s just my humble opinion. not really possible as a segue. MFK = end of side1, Liar = start of side2. we'd just transposed MFK and GKR running order. i've just tried the three tracks (in Audition) as suggested initially: GKR > MTS > MFKand it works really well So this is possible that the GKR segued to MTS but since it wasn't on the album it didn't segue to any other song
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 23, 2020 17:58:44 GMT
But then it would have been between MFK and Liar, because GKR comes first. Tried that out of curiosity and it would have worked for me. But that’s just my humble opinion. not really possible as a segue. MFK = end of side1, Liar = start of side2. we'd just transposed MFK and GKR running order. i've just tried the three tracks (in Audition) as suggested initially: GKR > MTS > MFKand it works really well I'm going to try that myself. It's difficult to think how a segue would work between GKR and MTS, unless there was something between the faded out drums and the intro to MTS.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 23, 2020 18:04:37 GMT
I didn't notice that it's a religious song and I can't see it like that. The song actually never performed live in my opinion it's just a rumour that came from an unknown source that claimed it was played live at Mid-South coliseum, Memphis, USA on April 20th 1974. And Liar and Jesus aren't religious songs cause Freddie wasn't a religious person at all. Liar was a love song this is one of the reasons that it's released on Valentine 1974. Jesus was a song that Freddie wrote about changing the religion. Freddie didn't need to be religious to write a religious song. Freddie wrote about all kinds of mythologcial stuff on those first three albums - but it doesn't mean he believed in any of it. Bands write bible-themed songs because they're interesting stories to write and sing about. if you can't see the religious theme in MTS and Jesus, then you're missing the whole point of both. Both songs centre around Jesus' teaching and the miracles he's said to have performed - And then I saw Him in the crowd A lot of people had gathered round Him The beggars shouted the lepers called Him
Unclean said the leper and rang his bell Felt the palm of a hand touch his head Go now go now you're a new man instead
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I walk upon the water just as before I'll help the meek and the mild and believers and the blind And all the creatures great and small
A message of love I bring you from up above All good children gather around Come join your hands and sing along
MTS also appears to be written from the perspective of "Jesus' 2nd Coming". Been here before a long time ago But this time I wear no sandals Ages past I gave all you people Food and water
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 23, 2020 19:47:13 GMT
I know the main points of them. Jesus wasn't supposed to be a religious song. It doesn't mean if the title is "Jesus" the song is a religious song. Freddie wrote it about changing the religion part of the song tells the story of Jesus but this won't make it a religious song. You're probably right about MTS but Freddie could wrote the lyrics about something else
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Golden Salmon
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Post by Golden Salmon on Aug 23, 2020 21:01:20 GMT
Despite its musical qualities and popularity (or lack thereof) among fans, it's a jewel no matter what. It's the only complete, original unreleased song that was ever included in an official release, from their first album too. Only "Hangman" could become equally important if it ever sees the light of day.
It does have historical significance as there hasn't been a similar case since then. The closest one is TMLWKY, which was included in MIH without modifications. "Feelings, Feelings" is not a complete song and "Let Me In Your Heart Again" was reworked. I'm reading that the only difference between the original MTS recording and the version released might reside in drum volume levels, but still my point stands.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 23, 2020 21:10:36 GMT
I know the main points of them. Jesus wasn't supposed to be a religious song. It doesn't mean if the title is "Jesus" the song is a religious song. Freddie wrote it about changing the religion part of the song tells the story of Jesus but this won't make it a religious song. You're probably right about MTS but Freddie could wrote the lyrics about something else but surely both songs can still be religious without referring to Freddie's own feelings/beliefs? Religious: relating to or believing in a religion, having to do with religion. Relating: make or show a connection between, feel sympathy for or identify with, able to understand a situation, give an account of an event. Both songs detail early Christianity, the teachings and events. I would say from the definitions of Religious and Relating (above) there's enough there to say both songs have religious subject matter running through them. admittedly, not anything to do with Freddie's own beliefs - but definitely his understanding of the New Testament. I'd suggest this is no different to his understanding of/use of mythological phrases in some of his others songs - and use of "The Pied Piper of Hamyln" in My Fairy King...and Brian's understanding of the Old Testament in Prophet Song. There's no empathic exclusivity in reporting/writing about something.
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 23, 2020 21:48:30 GMT
I know the main points of them. Jesus wasn't supposed to be a religious song. It doesn't mean if the title is "Jesus" the song is a religious song. Freddie wrote it about changing the religion part of the song tells the story of Jesus but this won't make it a religious song. You're probably right about MTS but Freddie could wrote the lyrics about something else but surely both songs can still be religious without referring to Freddie's own feelings/beliefs? Religious: relating to or believing in a religion, having to do with religion. Relating: make or show a connection between, feel sympathy for or identify with, able to understand a situation, give an account of an event. Both songs detail early Christianity, the teachings and events. I would say from the definitions of Religious and Relating (above) there's enough there to say both songs have religious subject matter running through them. admittedly, not anything to do with Freddie's own beliefs - but definitely his understanding of the New Testament. I'd suggest this is no different to his understanding of/use of mythological phrases in some of his others songs - and use of "The Pied Piper of Hamyln" in My Fairy King...and Brian's understanding of the Old Testament in Prophet Song. There's no empathic exclusivity in reporting/writing about something. I think they were more relating to religious themes. I can't be agree, it's my opinion, sorry!
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 23, 2020 21:57:17 GMT
About another subject that came to my mind about years ago while I was searching about a recording of the song from 1971 I found a video on YouTube labeled as Mad The Swine 1971, with a different mix. I didn't have much info back then that Queen only were in studio one time in 1971 at De Lane Lea so we're pretty sure that this is impossible that the song recorded at any studio in 1971 cause Queen only recorded five demos of their tracks at De Lane Lea in 1971: "Keep Yourself Alive", "Great King Rat", "Jesus", "Liar" and "The Night Comes Down". so this is certainly not true that the song recorded in 1971 but do you think that it was another mix of the song that recorded on another date in 1972 except June 1972?
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Post by ladedadedaa on Aug 24, 2020 1:36:42 GMT
The drums and percussion is supposedly the reason why it wasn't on the album with the mix but another is that it's another religious song (Liar and Jesus are two of them on the album). First off calling it religious/related is just semantics. They allude to religious themes regardless. Anyway the point of this post is that Great King Rat should be included in the list. "Now listen all you people Put out the good and keep the bad Don't believe all you read in the Bible You sinners get in line Saints you leave far behind Very soon you're gonna be his disciple Don't listen to what mama says Not a word not a word mama says Or else you'll find yourself being the rival Sure, the great lord before he died Knelt sinners by his side And said you're going to realise tomorrow"
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 24, 2020 8:01:43 GMT
The drums and percussion is supposedly the reason why it wasn't on the album with the mix but another is that it's another religious song (Liar and Jesus are two of them on the album). First off calling it religious/related is just semantics. They allude to religious themes regardless. Anyway the point of this post is that Great King Rat should be included in the list. "Now listen all you people Put out the good and keep the bad Don't believe all you read in the Bible You sinners get in line Saints you leave far behind Very soon you're gonna be his disciple Don't listen to what mama says Not a word not a word mama says Or else you'll find yourself being the rival Sure, the great lord before he died Knelt sinners by his side And said you're going to realise tomorrow" About Great King Rat I think no that's not a religious song too most of the time the Lyrics don't show the message of song so if for example a lyrics in a random song was "listen to your mother, read the bible" it doesn't mean that it's a religious and that lyrics may has another message behind it so we can't call MTS and GKR a religious song and about a little point that @вяейski thinks Liar is a religious song only according to lyrics, he maybe thought liar is a religious song by looking to this lyrics part "I've sinned dear father" but actually the message behind it could be about two lovers as the first title of the song was "Lover" and the main subject of the song was about love and lovers so it's not relatable to religious themes at all. soo you see guys you can't call them religious songs except "Jesus".
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 24, 2020 10:48:36 GMT
I'll still call Great King Rat, Mad The Swine, Liar and Jesus religious because to my knowledge Queen didn't ever delve into the theme after the first album so they're more religious than 98% of other Queen songs.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 24, 2020 11:21:47 GMT
I'll still call Great King Rat, Mad The Swine, Liar and Jesus religious because to my knowledge Queen didn't ever delve into the theme after the first album so they're more religious than 98% of other Queen songs. well Freddie didn't. but Brian did with Prophet Song. as for GKR - i've always had my doubts because of this verse: Now listen all you peoplePut out the good and keep the badDon't believe all you read in the BibleYou sinners get in lineSaints you leave far behindVery soon you're gonna be his disciplethe inference is one of promoting Satanism, rather than Christianity.
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Post by scapp70 on Aug 24, 2020 11:25:19 GMT
I remember the first time hearing it as a b-side to Headlong. I was blown away
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Aug 24, 2020 11:30:21 GMT
I'll still call Great King Rat, Mad The Swine, Liar and Jesus religious because to my knowledge Queen didn't ever delve into the theme after the first album so they're more religious than 98% of other Queen songs. well Freddie didn't. but Brian did with Prophet Song. as for GKR - i've always had my doubts because of this verse: Now listen all you peoplePut out the good and keep the badDon't believe all you read in the BibleYou sinners get in lineSaints you leave far behindVery soon you're gonna be his disciplethe inference is one of promoting Satanism, rather than Christianity.
What about All God's People?
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 24, 2020 11:33:53 GMT
well Freddie didn't. but Brian did with Prophet Song. as for GKR - i've always had my doubts because of this verse: Now listen all you peoplePut out the good and keep the badDon't believe all you read in the BibleYou sinners get in lineSaints you leave far behindVery soon you're gonna be his disciplethe inference is one of promoting Satanism, rather than Christianity.
What about All God's People?
No he's talking about GKR. I think AGP was a religious song but I'm not sure
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 24, 2020 11:35:44 GMT
I remember the first time hearing it as a b-side to Headlong. I was blown away Yes it was a great song. I'd like to know that when Freddie wrote it or about what he wrote it
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Aug 24, 2020 11:36:10 GMT
I know what Brenski was talking about. Just to make it clear for you:
Nathan wrote: Queen didn't ever delve into the theme after the first album
Brenski replied to that: well Freddie didn't. but Brian did with Prophet Song.
To that I replied with: what about All God's People?
It really isn't that complicated.
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 24, 2020 11:37:16 GMT
I'll still call Great King Rat, Mad The Swine, Liar and Jesus religious because to my knowledge Queen didn't ever delve into the theme after the first album so they're more religious than 98% of other Queen songs. Sure everyone's opinions is valuable.
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Post by queen1970s on Aug 24, 2020 11:40:01 GMT
I know what Brenski was talking about. Just to make it clear for you: Nathan wrote: Queen didn't ever delve into the theme after the first album Brenski replied to that: well Freddie didn't. but Brian did with Prophet Song. To that I replied with: what about All God's People? It really isn't that complicated. No I didn't say it's complicated just I said that All God's People isn't related to them but it's a religious song I guess
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