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Post by ThomasQuinn on Sept 1, 2020 13:45:14 GMT
Ein Deutsches Requiem.
And not only do I strongly dislike religion, I'm not particularly fond of classical vocal music either. Sometimes, the music is just so good that it overcomes any and all reservations.
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itsm
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Post by itsm on Sept 2, 2020 21:29:30 GMT
I like the melody, vocals and drums, but the sound is a bit thin, I think. But I like it overall. Listened to it earlier today actually.
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toozeup
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Post by toozeup on Sept 3, 2020 10:46:48 GMT
I think it's completely a rumour that Queen played "Mad The Swine" at Mid-South coliseum, Memphis on April 20th 1974. This fact just came from an unknown source. It came from Gary Taylor, who has researched Queen's live history fairly extensively, and has access to information none of us have. Unlike Greg Brooks, whose behavior has led me to doubt his reputation, Gary is a standup gentleman and I trust him unquestionably. If he says Mad the Swine was performed live, then I trust that he has proof to back that information up, even if he's not necessarily at liberty to reveal his sources. Yep Gary Taylor confirmed it was played after he and Greg Brooks reviewed soundboard tapes of the 1974 US tour with Mott. It's also the reason we have the full Setlist. Bare in mind they don't have soundboard tapes for every date of the tour so it's possible it was played at 1 or 2 other dates as well. This information came to light in Gary's excellent book "Queen Touring America" which I highly recommend.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 12:57:10 GMT
To some people, it doesn't work like that. It's more like:
- A source that matches my established conclusions has to be trusted, even if it's a Wikipedia edit. - A source that contradicts my established conclusions has to be doubted, even if it's a live witness.
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Sept 3, 2020 16:13:59 GMT
Here's a thought. Imagine the band decide against "Mad The Swine" in 1991 (or Jacky misses the tape). There's as far as I know, not a scrap of evidence anywhere (outside QPL) that the song even exists, I suppose until Gary's book is published in 2018. Unlike "Hangman" it never appeared on any bootlegs. It's a bit like "Fairy Feller" live. Which raises the question of whether there are any other songs (even covers) recorded/played live in the early 70s, that remain completely unknown, never mind unreleased. Unlikely, I know. I guess I'm also thinking of songs from Smile's setlist that may have survived the crossover period before Queen fully got their own material together.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 3, 2020 17:04:59 GMT
Here's a thought. Imagine the band decide against "Mad The Swine" in 1991 (or Jacky misses the tape). There's as far as I know, not a scrap of evidence anywhere (outside QPL) that the song even exists, I suppose until Gary's book is published in 2018. Unlike "Hangman" it never appeared on any bootlegs. It's a bit like "Fairy Feller" live. Which raises the question of whether there are any other songs (even covers) recorded/played live in the early 70s, that remain completely unknown, never mind unreleased. Unlikely, I know. I guess I'm also thinking of songs from Smile's setlist that may have survived the crossover period before Queen fully got their own material together. I did once hear a rumour that a studio recording of the old Rock and Roll Medley they used to do exists in some form, but have nothing to verify or substantiate that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 17:08:52 GMT
Here's a thought. Imagine the band decide against "Mad The Swine" in 1991 (or Jacky misses the tape). There's as far as I know, not a scrap of evidence anywhere (outside QPL) that the song even exists, I suppose until Gary's book is published in 2018. Unlike "Hangman" it never appeared on any bootlegs. It's a bit like "Fairy Feller" live. Which raises the question of whether there are any other songs (even covers) recorded/played live in the early 70s, that remain completely unknown, never mind unreleased. Unlikely, I know. I guess I'm also thinking of songs from Smile's setlist that may have survived the crossover period before Queen fully got their own material together. Absolutely, and probably not too unlikely. That's why I personally prefer, say, 'there's no documented evidence so far suggesting Queen played "In Only Seven Days" on stage' to 'Queen never played "In Only Seven Days" on-stage.'
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Sept 3, 2020 20:42:41 GMT
There are lots of insistences now when an older Queen song was dropped from the show but on a later tour revived again (such as Father To Son, Hangman, Modern Times Rock 'n' Roll) but then after one or two shows dropped again. So in the case of Mad The Swine and The Night Comes Down, there's nothing substantially accurate to show that they were played but judging by some of these other songs I mentioned it's not an impossible scenario.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 21:41:21 GMT
Here's a thought. Imagine the band decide against "Mad The Swine" in 1991 (or Jacky misses the tape). There's as far as I know, not a scrap of evidence anywhere (outside QPL) that the song even exists, I suppose until Gary's book is published in 2018. Unlike "Hangman" it never appeared on any bootlegs. It's a bit like "Fairy Feller" live. Which raises the question of whether there are any other songs (even covers) recorded/played live in the early 70s, that remain completely unknown, never mind unreleased. Unlikely, I know. I guess I'm also thinking of songs from Smile's setlist that may have survived the crossover period before Queen fully got their own material together. I did once hear a rumour that a studio recording of the old Rock and Roll Medley they used to do exists in some form, but have nothing to verify or substantiate that. I remember reading that as well...then I remembered where I read that, haha. I’m not quite sure where this website gathered their information, but it does back that rumor. qliverecordings.tripod.com/early/eqrecordings.html
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Post by staysweet on Sept 4, 2020 1:19:50 GMT
I like MTS, I enjoy the different sound of it. I listened to it today and realized for the first time that there are bongos throughout the song...I knew there were a few licks at the beginning (after the line about wearing no sandals) but never really listened that closely before to notice they go all the way through. Now I’m curious if there were bongos in any other Queen songs? I don’t really recall hearing any, but I never listened specifically for them.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Sept 4, 2020 3:16:54 GMT
Mad the Swine is one of my favorite Queen songs. An absolute gem. If it would have been included on the debut album, it'd probably be my favorite song on the album. The production is crystal clear and has so much warmth. Sure, the lyrical content is nothing to rave about, but it has a certain charm that I can't identify with any other Queen song. It's unique.
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billy
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Post by billy on Sept 4, 2020 4:48:53 GMT
Interestingly, the only such release happened during Freddie's lifetime. Is it indicative of the band's attempts to dig through the archive in search of material, which could be reworked for the innuendo or later sessions? It's really odd how the song from the very start suddenly surfaced on one of the last releases. And that couldn't have happened without Freddie approval either. For me there is something amiss here. The song was re-discovered while they (or Jackie Smith) were checking the archives for potential 'bonus tracks' - part of the new deal with Hollywood records was that the old albums would be expanded with extra content. MTS was the only unused old song the band selected for release, though they were going off a list rather than listening through everything themselves. I would guess it was added to Headlong to make it available to non US fans. It was indeed remixed, in Montreux, before release (presumably to 'fix' the drums but that's speculation). There were apparently other titles submitted to the band but of course nothing was used. (Source is the fan club magazine Summer 1991). Funny, but what I remember about how MTS ended up on the Hollywood Records CD is a little different. I read (or heard) that Queen (or EMI) sent the original tape (master tape or safety backup or whatever) to Hollywood to be remastered for the CD. It was Hollywood that then discovered the song at the tail end of the tape, or it was on another tape in the shipment. (Would each song have been on a separate tape? I have no idea.) And because Hollywood had it in their possession they were able to pressure Queen to let them include it on the CD as a bonus track. I have no idea where I read this, but obviously Jackie’s version contradicts this, and she would know better. I will add, though, that I had recently managed a record store so it’s possible I heard this from a label rep or someone else in the record biz. Or read it in a trade magazine. It’s also very possible I mis-remembered and this was about either the long lost retake of KYA or even something else altogether. But I was surprised to see Jackie’s version because I always thought the version of events I knew was common knowledge and was how that track came to light. I’ve done a cursory search online but can’t find where I might have read this. (Billboard’s search is not very friendly to non-subscribers.) I was no longer getting the fan club magazine in 1991 so this is the first time I’ve seen the “official” version of how MTS came to be on the Hollywood CD. Has anyone else here heard this story? Or am I completely nuts? (I’ve now read the Summer 1991 fan club mag and I think I must be nuts.)
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Post by saintjiub on Sept 4, 2020 5:31:11 GMT
The song was re-discovered while they (or Jackie Smith) were checking the archives for potential 'bonus tracks' - part of the new deal with Hollywood records was that the old albums would be expanded with extra content. MTS was the only unused old song the band selected for release, though they were going off a list rather than listening through everything themselves. I would guess it was added to Headlong to make it available to non US fans. It was indeed remixed, in Montreux, before release (presumably to 'fix' the drums but that's speculation). There were apparently other titles submitted to the band but of course nothing was used. (Source is the fan club magazine Summer 1991). Funny, but what I remember about how MTS ended up on the Hollywood Records CD is a little different. I read (or heard) that Queen (or EMI) sent the original tape (master tape or safety backup or whatever) to Hollywood to be remastered for the CD. It was Hollywood that then discovered the song at the tail end of the tape, or it was on another tape in the shipment. (Would each song have been on a separate tape? I have no idea.) And because Hollywood had it in their possession they were able to pressure Queen to let them include it on the CD as a bonus track. I have no idea where I read this, but obviously Jackie’s version contradicts this, and she would know better. I will add, though, that I had recently managed a record store so it’s possible I heard this from a label rep or someone else in the record biz. Or read it in a trade magazine. It’s also very possible I mis-remembered and this was about either the long lost retake of KYA or even something else altogether. But I was surprised to see Jackie’s version because I always thought the version of events I knew was common knowledge and was how that track came to light. I’ve done a cursory search online but can’t find where I might have read this. (Billboard’s search is not very friendly to non-subscribers.) I was no longer getting the fan club magazine in 1991 so this is the first time I’ve seen the “official” version of how MTS came to be on the Hollywood CD. Has anyone else here heard this story? Or am I completely nuts? (I’ve now read the Summer 1991 fan club mag and I think I must be nuts.) I read that exact story (pre-internet), but cannot remember where. I have no connections. I never heard Jackie's version until now.
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jeroeng
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Post by jeroeng on Sept 4, 2020 7:30:10 GMT
Funny, but what I remember about how MTS ended up on the Hollywood Records CD is a little different. I read (or heard) that Queen (or EMI) sent the original tape (master tape or safety backup or whatever) to Hollywood to be remastered for the CD. It was Hollywood that then discovered the song at the tail end of the tape, or it was on another tape in the shipment. (Would each song have been on a separate tape? I have no idea.) And because Hollywood had it in their possession they were able to pressure Queen to let them include it on the CD as a bonus track. I have no idea where I read this, but obviously Jackie’s version contradicts this, and she would know better. I will add, though, that I had recently managed a record store so it’s possible I heard this from a label rep or someone else in the record biz. Or read it in a trade magazine. It’s also very possible I mis-remembered and this was about either the long lost retake of KYA or even something else altogether. But I was surprised to see Jackie’s version because I always thought the version of events I knew was common knowledge and was how that track came to light. I’ve done a cursory search online but can’t find where I might have read this. (Billboard’s search is not very friendly to non-subscribers.) I was no longer getting the fan club magazine in 1991 so this is the first time I’ve seen the “official” version of how MTS came to be on the Hollywood CD. Has anyone else here heard this story? Or am I completely nuts? (I’ve now read the Summer 1991 fan club mag and I think I must be nuts.) I read that exact story (pre-internet), but cannot remember where. I have no connections. I never heard Jackie's version until now. Same here.
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leroybrown
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Post by leroybrown on Sept 4, 2020 8:52:18 GMT
I read that exact story (pre-internet), but cannot remember where. I have no connections. I never heard Jackie's version until now. Same here. Same here. I don’t recall where I first heard this rumor, but it does like a good enough story to be true. However, we also know the song was mixed prior to the release, so Hollywood would have seen the tape back for mixing before they released it. Its a good song but as some have said here, probably better left off the album. It was exciting when they released a gem from the past.
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Post by martinpacker on Sept 4, 2020 8:56:35 GMT
Now I listen to it again I have two reactions:
1. I like the experimentation with multi-tracking versus single-tracking the vocals.
2. The guitar sound is a bit thin.
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Sept 4, 2020 9:05:29 GMT
Interesting stuff.. if Jackie was being a little free with the facts, I can only guess it was to save face a little (ie, the story rewritten to make it all seem like Queen/ QPL's idea). Then again I'm not convinced Hollywood were powerful enough to pressure Queen into releasing something they genuinely didn't want out there. Also, no one cared about the reason for its emergence bar Queen fans. It's not like there was a press release, just the fan club mag.
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Sept 4, 2020 11:10:18 GMT
Here's a thought. Imagine the band decide against "Mad The Swine" in 1991 (or Jacky misses the tape). There's as far as I know, not a scrap of evidence anywhere (outside QPL) that the song even exists, I suppose until Gary's book is published in 2018. Unlike "Hangman" it never appeared on any bootlegs. It's a bit like "Fairy Feller" live. Which raises the question of whether there are any other songs (even covers) recorded/played live in the early 70s, that remain completely unknown, never mind unreleased. Unlikely, I know. I guess I'm also thinking of songs from Smile's setlist that may have survived the crossover period before Queen fully got their own material together. Gary Taylor once told me (shortly after the NOTW-box was released, I think) that there's still ONE track in the archive that would be equally surprising to fans as the live versiona of The Fairy Feller's Master Stroke and Sleeping On The Sidewalk. He wouldn't say any more: "We know The night Comes Down and Jesus were performed live, and another obscure track, but I don't want to divulge that one yet."
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Sept 4, 2020 12:07:35 GMT
It could well be Mad The Swine but another song could be Long Away. I remember it was rehearsed quite a lot by Queen in the first part of the American leg of the A Day At The Races Tour as stated in an interview by Brian and Freddie said in a radio interview that it should be in the set soon seeing now they know where to put it. So it might've not been played in the show (probably not at all) but seeing how they rehearsed it for a couple of weeks there must be a recording of Queen practising it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 13:22:19 GMT
I hate to be *that guy*, but if anyone wants to hear a modern home recording cover of this..I did this testing out some new drum equipment, trying to recreate that original vibe.
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billy
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Post by billy on Sept 4, 2020 13:40:02 GMT
I read that exact story (pre-internet), but cannot remember where. I have no connections. I never heard Jackie's version until now. Same here. Same here. I don’t recall where I first heard this rumor, but it does like a good enough story to be true. However, we also know the song was mixed prior to the release, so Hollywood would have seen the tape back for mixing before they released it. Its a good song but as some have said here, probably better left off the album. It was exciting when they released a gem from the past. Interesting stuff.. if Jackie was being a little free with the facts, I can only guess it was to save face a little (ie, the story rewritten to make it all seem like Queen/ QPL's idea). Then again I'm not convinced Hollywood were powerful enough to pressure Queen into releasing something they genuinely didn't want out there. Also, no one cared about the reason for its emergence bar Queen fans. It's not like there was a press release, just the fan club mag. Thanks all - glad to know my memory’s not that faulty yet! Good point about Hollywood and their power, and only Queen fans caring about how the song came to be released. Maybe it was in Rolling Stone or even Cream (if Cream magazine was still around) trying to create exciting copy. I’ll keep searching for the source.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 4, 2020 14:07:39 GMT
I hate to be *that guy*, but if anyone wants to hear a modern home recording cover of this..I did this testing out some new drum equipment, trying to recreate that original vibe. really like this. you're really captured the atmosphere/ambience of the original.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Sept 4, 2020 15:11:16 GMT
I hate to be *that guy*, but if anyone wants to hear a modern home recording cover of this..I did this testing out some new drum equipment, trying to recreate that original vibe. Bravo!! I'm assuming that's you playing everything? Very impressive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 16:08:10 GMT
I hate to be *that guy*, but if anyone wants to hear a modern home recording cover of this..I did this testing out some new drum equipment, trying to recreate that original vibe. Bravo!! I'm assuming that's you playing everything? Very impressive. Thanks Frank! Yes, for this particular track - I played all the instruments. To beef up the harmonies, I actually had my friend (who’s also on here) Chief Mouse double my harmonies!
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Sept 7, 2020 12:14:39 GMT
I was listening to the podcast, QueenPod, yesterday and someone mentioned that Mad the Swine wouldn't have fit in with the rest of the album because it sounds too much like a Smile song. And when I stop to think about it, it has a similar vibe to songs like Polar Bear and Blag, I suppose. But the song was written by Freddie. So perhaps he drew some inspiration from those songs?
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Post by mrqueenguy on Sept 7, 2020 12:30:52 GMT
Here's a thought. Imagine the band decide against "Mad The Swine" in 1991 (or Jacky misses the tape). There's as far as I know, not a scrap of evidence anywhere (outside QPL) that the song even exists, I suppose until Gary's book is published in 2018. Unlike "Hangman" it never appeared on any bootlegs. It's a bit like "Fairy Feller" live. Which raises the question of whether there are any other songs (even covers) recorded/played live in the early 70s, that remain completely unknown, never mind unreleased. Unlikely, I know. I guess I'm also thinking of songs from Smile's setlist that may have survived the crossover period before Queen fully got their own material together. Gary Taylor once told me (shortly after the NOTW-box was released, I think) that there's still ONE track in the archive that would be equally surprising to fans as the live versiona of The Fairy Feller's Master Stroke and Sleeping On The Sidewalk. He wouldn't say any more: "We know The night Comes Down and Jesus were performed live, and another obscure track, but I don't want to divulge that one yet." Maybe Long Away was performed after all?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 13:57:39 GMT
I was listening to the podcast, QueenPod, yesterday and someone mentioned that Mad the Swine wouldn't have fit in with the rest of the album because it sounds too much like a Smile song. And when I stop to think about it, it has a similar vibe to songs like Polar Bear and Blag, I suppose. But the song was written by Freddie. So perhaps he drew some inspiration from those songs? Frederick had the same influential background as the members of Smile, so he could've been influenced by them and/or by the people who influenced them. Cousins can resemble each other because of their common ancestors.
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Sept 7, 2020 14:00:46 GMT
As to why it was left off - reading this thread it occured to me that it's by far the lightest, most upbeat and 'pop' song (not) on the album. It's quite possible it was thought not to fit stylistically, amongst all the heavier stuff. The same thing happened with See What a Fool I've Been, Stone Cold Crazy and Sheer Heart Attack, none of which were judged to be 'right' for albums that they could have been included on.
Sound wise since they'd already gained one concession with "The Night Comes Down" in keeping the original recording, and they'd worked KYA to death to get a version everyone agreed on, perhaps this was the one song where neither Roy nor the band were willing to compromise on the sound, so the decision was made to drop it altogether. It's not like they ever stopped complaining about the sound of the first album, so this was obviously a sore point at the time.
Finally, since it was evidently not an enduring live staple, perhaps it was thought not particularly representative of the band's style at the time - a slight aberration in their repertoire.
And one more thought - a sixth (or five 1/2th) Freddie song to Brian's three and a half? Maybe there was a bit of jostling for relative album space..
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Sept 7, 2020 14:47:27 GMT
I was listening to the podcast, QueenPod, yesterday and someone mentioned that Mad the Swine wouldn't have fit in with the rest of the album because it sounds too much like a Smile song. And when I stop to think about it, it has a similar vibe to songs like Polar Bear and Blag, I suppose. But the song was written by Freddie. So perhaps he drew some inspiration from those songs? Frederick had the same influential background as the members of Smile, so he could've been influenced by them and/or by the people who influenced them. Cousins can resemble each other because of their common ancestors. Yes, good point. Freddie was still learning his craft when he was playing in other bands and following Smile around. Naturally, he drew on the same influences as those around him, and I would argue Smile themselves rubbed off on him from a composition standpoint. I'm curious if you or anyone else knows when Mad the Swine was composed (not recorded). It'd be interesting to know when he wrote the song in relation to when he wrote more grandiose songs like My Fairy King and Great King Rat.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 7, 2020 15:07:43 GMT
Frederick had the same influential background as the members of Smile, so he could've been influenced by them and/or by the people who influenced them. Cousins can resemble each other because of their common ancestors. Yes, good point. Freddie was still learning his craft when he was playing in other bands and following Smile around. Naturally, he drew on the same influences as those around him, and I would argue Smile themselves rubbed off on him from a composition standpoint. I'm curious if you or anyone else knows when Mad the Swine was composed (not recorded). It'd be interesting to know when he wrote the song in relation to when he wrote more grandiose songs like My Fairy King and Great King Rat. and...in some ways, Mad The Swine fits in with the Queen I vibe better than some of the songs on the album. Night Comes Down and Doin' Alright really sound more late-60s (arrangement/production-wise) than MTS.
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