alejandro19
Tatterdemalion
I ask you to be my Clementine
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Post by alejandro19 on Feb 19, 2021 19:46:14 GMT
There's a second take version of SSOR of the 14th March 1974, it was aired in 21st March 1974. Sadly, is missing but there's some photos of it
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oreno
Ploughman
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Post by oreno on Feb 20, 2021 11:06:27 GMT
There's a second take version of SSOR of the 14th March 1974, it was aired in 21st March 1974. Sadly, is missing but there's some photos of it We've been through this already.. There's no evidence for Queen being on totp on 21/3/74. Only an erroneous duplication of the 21/2/74 show listing under the wrong date (which naturally has been copy-pasted across the internet). And certainly no evidence of a lost 'second take' - how would we know any photos were from that anyway, since it was the exact same setup? If you do have any evidence/links please share! SSOR 21/2 - Freddie in black shirt/silver belt 14/3 - Freddie in black shirt/V neck, and gauntlet 28/3 - Freddie in two-tone black and white top All these videos exist and are posted above. I can find no evidence of any repeat of SSOR on 21/3/74. www.tvpopdiaries.co.uk/1974.htmlhardprog.pagesperso-orange.fr/top_of_the_pops_1974_episode_guide_2312.htmPeace
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Feb 20, 2021 17:10:57 GMT
3 weeks on the trot for a song not at number one....I doubt there are many examples of that
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Post by Hammett To Fall on Feb 24, 2021 17:37:17 GMT
3 weeks on the trot for a song not at number one....I doubt there are many examples of that Indeed, Top Of The Pops policy was that the same song would not be aired two weeks in a row, unless it was the number 1.
There were rare exceptions, most notably All About Eve with "Martha's Harbour" in 1988. That, however, was the producers making up for the technical mix-up which meant they couldn't hear their backing track on stage & were left sat there on stage while the show went out and the audience at home could hear them. They played live the following week.
Much as Roger hated TOTP, at least Queen didn't have anything like that happen to them!
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Post by soundfreak1 on May 7, 2021 15:54:19 GMT
From what is known the musicians union had a big influence on "Top of the Pops" in forcing the BBC not to let artists mime to their regular records.
That's why we have such a wealth of BBC performances with different backing tracks or additional live vocals. Obviously this has also led to a different mix for "Now I'm here" and "Good old fashioned Loverboy".
Strangely "Seven Seas of Rhye" and "Killer Queen" are usually shown with the overdubbed regular stereo versions. But what was heard originally? Did the "original" audio also just use the original versions? And if so - why were they "allowed" to do so?
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oreno
Ploughman
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Post by oreno on May 7, 2021 18:33:23 GMT
It was apparently very common for someone to take the Musician's Union rep out 'for a drink' while bands were supposedly 'recording' the new track, and they'd swap the tapes. So TOTP more often than not played the actual original record. I think it was an open secret. But for some reason, certain songs did have new recordings on the show. Bowie's TOTP "Jean Genie" for one is either a re-recording, or was actually live (it's definitely not the release version). But his famous "Starman" was the album/studio version. I think.
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Post by Hammett To Fall on May 7, 2021 18:46:27 GMT
From what is known the musicians union had a big influence on "Top of the Pops" in forcing the BBC not to let artists mime to their regular records.
That's why we have such a wealth of BBC performances with different backing tracks or additional live vocals. Obviously this has also led to a different mix for "Now I'm here" and "Good old fashioned Loverboy".
Strangely "Seven Seas of Rhye" and "Killer Queen" are usually shown with the overdubbed regular stereo versions. But what was heard originally? Did the "original" audio also just use the original versions? And if so - why were they "allowed" to do so? While it's true that Musicians Union rules meant that acts were meant to re-record their backing tracks for UK TV appearances, what often happened is that the tapes would be "switched" so they would end up miming to the released versions anyway. It sounds daft, but it's a story told by many people, many times. The TOTP performances that survive bear this out, too.
Despite the last-minute nature of their booking, it is documented that Queen borrowed studio time from Pete Townshend at The Who's Ramport Studios ahead of their first appearance with "Seven Seas of Rhye"; Brian recalled Pete asking him about his musical training, to which Brian explained that - in spite of Pete's assumption - he hadn't had any formal musical education. While it's possible they recorded a whole new version, they may have just done what they did with some of their BBC Radio sessions & only re-recorded a few vocal parts.
Certainly the footage with the original audio sounds very much like the record, although the vocal does sound *slightly* different in a couple of places, with what sounds like some room ambience. This suggests either Freddie sang a live vocal on top of the studio track (which is low in the mix) or maybe they just replaced one of the lead vocal tracks on the tape:
As far as I'm aware, "Now I'm Here" & "Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy" were the only tracks to have completely unique recordings. Who knows if they even went through the pretence of preparing a "new" version of "Killer Queen" (or, years later, "Las Palabras De Amor"). If they did, it has never been documented, and I doubt anyone would have kept the tapes.
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Lord Fickle
Global Moderator
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Post by Lord Fickle on May 7, 2021 18:54:19 GMT
Just to expand this a little, does anyone know anything about a TV studio performance of Flick Of The Wrist? I've asked about this before and there seemed to be no documentation to support it, but for some reason I distinctly remember seeing it performed, and even remember it had a different guitar solo. I could of course have dreamt it, imagined it, or got it confused with something else, but I was sure it was on the Old Grey Whistle Test.
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Post by soundfreak1 on May 7, 2021 18:57:28 GMT
It was apparently very common for someone to take the Musician's Union rep out 'for a drink' while bands were supposedly 'recording' the new track, and they'd swap the tapes. So TOTP more often than not played the actual original record. I think it was an open secret. But for some reason, certain songs did have new recordings on the show. Bowie's TOTP "Jean Genie" for one is either a re-recording, or was actually live (it's definitely not the release version). But his famous "Starman" was the album/studio version. I think. Bowie's Jean Genie, that was lost for decades, is one of the very few real live performances on Top of the Pops. "Starman" was a remix of the backing track with live vocals by Bowie, even with a little lyric change referencing to "Get it on".
Many acts like T.Rex, Slade and Sweet often had the lead singer add an additional live vocal on top of the regular version.
I like those special TV versions a lot, this unions rule has led to a lot of interesting versions. Most exciting are those alternate studio recordings. There are even some cases, were these versions are superior to the regular recordings. Sweet's "Little Willy" is a good example or Deep Purple's "Black Night", And I wonder what happened to those mastertapes and multitracks, as these recordings never showed up anywhere. Even Queen could only deliver the mono TV track of GOFLB on CD....
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georg
Global Moderator
wrote several books
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Post by georg on May 8, 2021 2:06:37 GMT
Just to expand this a little, does anyone know anything about a TV studio performance of Flick Of The Wrist? I've asked about this before and there seemed to be no documentation to support it, but for some reason I distinctly remember seeing it performed, and even remember it had a different guitar solo. I could of course have dreamt it, imagined it, or got it confused with something else, but I was sure it was on the Old Grey Whistle Test. Might it have been from Hyde Park? That’s the only thing I could possibly think of. I do know that the BBC recording is slightly different (same backing track, new vocal and guitar). I wonder why Queen went to the effort of re-recording Now I’m Here and Lover Boy when it seemed that they didn’t really need to. Especially the latter, considering they hadn’t been on TOTP since ‘75!
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Post by soundfreak1 on May 8, 2021 12:58:30 GMT
I wonder why Queen went to the effort of re-recording Now I’m Here and Lover Boy when it seemed that they didn’t really need to. Especially the latter, considering they hadn’t been on TOTP since ‘75! The "Lover Boy" featured a solo vocal from Mike Stone, I guess that was the reason. I'm glad they did, I really prefer that version to the regular one.
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inuliger
Dragonfly Trumpeter
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Post by inuliger on Sept 28, 2021 22:20:26 GMT
“The Stonk” is missing from that list.
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dysan
Ploughman
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Post by dysan on Nov 2, 2021 7:33:11 GMT
Rather predictably that YouTube channel went up in smoke. Admin please feel free to delete those last 3 posts
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Chinwonder2
Global Moderator
RIP QueenZone 1995 - 2020
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Post by Chinwonder2 on Nov 2, 2021 8:32:14 GMT
That’s unfortunate, was enjoying those uploads. I’ll delete those posts.
-Chin
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readyeddie
Dragonfly Trumpeter
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Post by readyeddie on Jan 11, 2022 15:21:52 GMT
Hey Chin, don't know if you saw but your source mix was used for SSOR on Queen at the BBC back in November.
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Chinwonder2
Global Moderator
RIP QueenZone 1995 - 2020
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Post by Chinwonder2 on Jan 11, 2022 17:11:02 GMT
Hey Chin, don't know if you saw but your source mix was used for SSOR on Queen at the BBC back in November. Yeah I saw, they also used my KYA St John’s as well lol -Chin
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Post by chatback999 on Jan 20, 2022 23:13:37 GMT
That performance of Las Palabras De Amor always interests me because they seem very somber or tired in it. I can't recall seeing them like that in any other appearances. I wasn't really into the song until I saw that clip.
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dane
Satyr
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Post by dane on Feb 24, 2023 8:00:32 GMT
Queen at the BBC, Tonight at 9PM on BBC4, UK. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00123q7Interesting playlist. Probably mostly music videos, but it seems to have the standard BBC Archived performances in there as well.
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DMS
Tatterdemalion
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Post by DMS on Apr 1, 2024 17:00:21 GMT
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oreno
Ploughman
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Post by oreno on Apr 4, 2024 19:04:11 GMT
No, it's from Friday 27th December 1974, and is a repeat of the 24th October performance. Noel Edmonds presented both the 21 Nov and 27 Dec eps. The 21st Nov is missing from the archives (though may exist in private hands). www.tvpopdiaries.co.uk/1974.html
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 4, 2024 20:49:29 GMT
I received this as a file named as a VLC screenshot, posted by one of our friends on YouTube appearing to dangle the carrot, as is their custom. But is that actually what this is, or is it a fake ?
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dysan
Ploughman
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Post by dysan on Apr 5, 2024 5:56:54 GMT
The Hello performance from the show exists on the same set so why not:
EDIT: bugger! EDIT2: although you might expect to see some heads in the audience from that angle, as seen in the similar angle on the above video (1:14 ish)
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oreno
Ploughman
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Post by oreno on Apr 6, 2024 10:24:00 GMT
I live in hope that the 21 November Killer Queen episode will surface at some point. What with Freddie in his natty red jacket, John uniquely playing a Rickenbacker..
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DMS
Tatterdemalion
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Post by DMS on Apr 6, 2024 13:56:54 GMT
No, it's from Friday 27th December 1974, and is a repeat of the 24th October performance. Noel Edmonds presented both the 21 Nov and 27 Dec eps. The 21st Nov is missing from the archives (though may exist in private hands). www.tvpopdiaries.co.uk/1974.htmlIs it not a different take though? There are two versions of the ‘official’ queen version on YouTube.
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oreno
Ploughman
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Post by oreno on Apr 6, 2024 20:07:29 GMT
There are two takes of the 'fur coat' performance, yes, filmed for the 24 October episode. It's not actually known which take was shown that night, because that episode is missing from the archives. But one take - the one you linked to - was shown on 27 December. That entire episode of Top of the Pops still exists! (And in very high quality). So ignore the description from the person who has uploaded the video you linked to, they are wrong. The fur coat clip is NOT from the 21st November show, it is from the December 27th show. So there's FOUR distinct KQ clips made for TOTP, (which I like to call-) 'Les Paul', 'Fur Coat' (Take one and Take two) and 'Red jacket'. 'Red Jacket' is presumed lost. 'Les Paul' was (relatively recently) recovered, in lowish quality. Both takes of 'fur coat' still exist in high/broadcast quality. I don't know how or why that is - since there's only the one surviving 27 December TOTP with the fur coat footage - but they do. For me the giveaway is that in 'Take One' the mic cable is in shot, hanging front of the bass drum (this is the one definitely shown on December 27th 1974) and in 'Take 2' it's out of shot, just its shadow falling on the bass drum (this version on GVH1 and Queen's youtube.) To clarify: Killer Queen on Top of the Pops 11 October 1974 - Freddie in Black jacket, Brian playing Les Paul - episode missing from the archives, but Queen clip repeated on 07 November 24 October 1974 - Freddie in Fur Coat (two takes filmed)- episode missing from the archives, but both takes still exist, Queen clip also shown/repeated on 27 December 07 November 1974 - Repeat of 11 October Les Paul performance - footage exists, Queen clip introduced by Jimmy Savile 21 November 1974 - Freddie in Red Jacket, John playing Rickenbacker - episode missing from the archives, no Queen footage survives 27 December 1974 - Repeat of 24 October Fur Coat performance - entire episode exists, Queen clip introduced by Noel Edmonds Ah turns out this was all done to death back in Queenzone days. Here's a Fur Coat comparison vid Here's a higher quality copy of 'Take One' And a higher quality version of 'take 2' than on the official Queen channel/ GVH1 (this is in 4:3 too!)
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Apr 6, 2024 21:12:16 GMT
24 October 1974 - Freddie in Fur Coat (two takes filmed)- episode missing from the archives, but both takes still exist, Queen clip also shown/repeated on 27 December ..... 27 December 1974 - Repeat of 24 October Fur Coat performance - entire episode exists, Queen clip introduced by Noel Edmonds Just to be extra (over?) specific. 27/12 isn't NECESSARILY a repeat of 24/10 - for all we know 24/10 was the other take, so his would be the FIRST use of the recording in question.
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oreno
Ploughman
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Post by oreno on Apr 7, 2024 8:27:33 GMT
That's right, either take could have been shown on 24 Oct.
I do wonder how take 2 survived, indeed why it even exists - and as a complete version, not a broadcast edit or off-air copy - who knows? Anyone? Simon Lupton?
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