Frank
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Post by Frank on Mar 14, 2021 2:09:58 GMT
Forgive me if this has been done already, but I'm curious. What is the best first side closer? I've never had to really think about this because I grew up in the age of CDs. But I was listening to the Queenpod Podcast and it was brought up by one of them that Seaside Rendezvous is perhaps the best first side closer. And I think I agree. If you think of ANATO as a concept album (being at an opera and being treated to a variety of styles) the song sounds like something you might hear just before the curtain closes for intermission. "Give us a kiss" and then concluding with a lovely accented note. It just seems very clever and feels like the perfect song to close with before continuing on with the show. Do you agree? Or would you choose a different closer?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2021 2:59:03 GMT
'You & I' would be my choice.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Mar 14, 2021 3:06:33 GMT
You & I is perfection. No doubt. If it weren't for Seaside Rendezvous, I might have gone with that one.
Speaking of the worst though, I'd have to go with Let Me Entertain You. That begs to be an opener, not a closer. Such a poor tracklisting on Jazz.
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pg
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Post by pg on Mar 14, 2021 9:33:14 GMT
I'm from the CD generation really, so I don't really think in these terms.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Mar 14, 2021 9:42:58 GMT
Forgive me if this has been done already, but I'm curious. What is the best first side closer? I've never had to really think about this because I grew up in the age of CDs. But I was listening to the Queenpod Podcast and it was brought up by one of them that Seaside Rendezvous is perhaps the best first side closer. And I think I agree. If you think of ANATO as a concept album (being at an opera and being treated to a variety of styles) the song sounds like something you might hear just before the curtain closes for intermission. "Give us a kiss" and then concluding with a lovely accented note. It just seems very clever and feels like the perfect song to close with before continuing on with the show. Do you agree? Or would you choose a different closer? i agree with most of what you've said - but not the section i've highlighted. sorry, but it's just plain impossible to think of the album in that way. even if you consider the concept idea of "attending an Opera", there's just no way, the themes of the songs are too disparate to even appear in the same opera: ♦ Verbal abuse aimed at a business manager ♦ a love for fast cars ♦ sci-fi time travel ♦ bible floods ♦ two love songs, and ♦ reminiscing about being on holiday if you could create an opera with those songs' subject matter - i guarantee you almost no-one would go see it.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Mar 14, 2021 10:04:10 GMT
I went for Seaside Rendezvous. Curious that none of those come close to being the strongest of the tracks on the albums.
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Post by martinpacker on Mar 14, 2021 10:31:49 GMT
You & I is perfection. No doubt. If it weren't for Seaside Rendezvous, I might have gone with that one. Speaking of the worst though, I'd have to go with Let Me Entertain You. That begs to be an opener, not a closer. Such a poor tracklisting on Jazz. I always thought "Mustapha" was a great "F You!" opener. :-)
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Mar 14, 2021 11:56:21 GMT
Forgive me if this has been done already, but I'm curious. What is the best first side closer? I've never had to really think about this because I grew up in the age of CDs. But I was listening to the Queenpod Podcast and it was brought up by one of them that Seaside Rendezvous is perhaps the best first side closer. And I think I agree. If you think of ANATO as a concept album (being at an opera and being treated to a variety of styles) the song sounds like something you might hear just before the curtain closes for intermission. "Give us a kiss" and then concluding with a lovely accented note. It just seems very clever and feels like the perfect song to close with before continuing on with the show. Do you agree? Or would you choose a different closer? i agree with most of what you've said - but not the section i've highlighted. sorry, but it's just plain impossible to think of the album in that way. even if you consider the concept idea of "attending an Opera", there's just no way, the themes of the songs are too disparate to even appear in the same opera: ♦ Verbal abuse aimed at a business manager ♦ a love for fast cars ♦ sci-fi time travel ♦ bible floods ♦ two love songs, and ♦ reminiscing about being on holiday if you could create an opera with those songs' subject matter - i guarantee you almost no-one would go see it. I do agree with you. ANATO is not a concept album. But if you squint your eyes a little bit and stand on your head with an umbrella half open it could be loosely interpreted as a concept album in the sense of going to a show...not necessarily an opera. The mixture of styles, especially the vaudeville numbers, lend itself in that direction. But no, not an opera. You're right.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Mar 14, 2021 12:00:20 GMT
Honestly, I'm surprised at how few of the songs make strong choices for closing a side to an album. I said it before, but Let Me Entertain You is poorly placed. As is Now I'm Here. Lyrically, I just think they should belong as openers for either side. But what makes a good first side closer anyway? Like pg, I've never had to think this way.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Mar 14, 2021 17:23:06 GMT
Ride The Wild Wind for me.
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Post by stevedorius on Mar 14, 2021 23:45:45 GMT
Ride The Wild Wind for me. Me too, from the cassette era
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georg
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Post by georg on Mar 15, 2021 13:31:41 GMT
I'm going to give Man On the Prowl some love, because it's obvious others will win, but I too am from the CD era, though I grew up with cassettes because I was young and poor, so they were the closest approximation to LPs I might have had in the 90s. Anyway, I think Man On the Prowl, despite being a third-rate CLTCL, is a fine album closer, simply because the ending jam bit is a lot of fun and just as you're grooving along with it, thinking it'll go on for at least a few more minutes, it cuts off cold and stops (sort of a nice callback to Sheer Heart Attack, the song). You can't do anything BUT change the side!
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Mar 15, 2021 15:59:51 GMT
I think generally speaking the "side closers" are upbeat, positive, and/or fun. Usually. With some interesting exceptions.
My Fairy King is probably the main outlier and does something very deliberately for that first album, which to that point has been mostly heavy, if ornate, rock. MFK takes the listener somewhere else, displays a different sensibility, and leaves the listener hanging with a promise that there's more intriguing stuff to come. In fact it almost ends the side on a question mark.
MFK aside, on the 70s albums the last track on side one often offers a less emotional, more straightforward feel in contrast to a complex preceding song, which has sometimes been the centrepiece of the side (or even the album). I think the straight rocking NIH after the (almost) song cycle of Tenement Funster/Flick of the Wrist/Lily of the Valley is the best example, but there's also the easygoing You and I after the epic Millionaire Waltz, and Fight from the Insde after the emotional double-whammy of All Dead and Spread Your Wings. Loser in the End similarly acts as a heavy palate cleanser after four tracks that have been on the whole very structured, textured and emotional. (Almost, in fact, the inverse set up of Queen 1.)
The 80 albums have more of a 'set of pop songs' arrangement, with less light and shade, but I'd say MOTP after Hard Life does a very 70s ish job, shaking things loose and dancing away the heartache. Sort of. While Action This Day if anything is the inverse of this, being a subtly rockier proposition after four pretty straight up dance songs.
On the whole though I think Side Ones tend to end with a loose/ positive/ rousing song, rather than risk entering the 'intermission' on any sort of downer or uncertainty. Invisible Man, FWBF, LMEY.. Ride the Wild Wind is upbeat and energetic but also has a strange, dreamy, unresolved feel. Perhaps the most atypical side closer since MFK, and perhaps deliberately so.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Mar 15, 2021 16:18:34 GMT
Ride The Wild Wind for me. Me too, from the cassette era Snap!
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Mar 15, 2021 16:19:59 GMT
MFK - by a mile (for me)
one thing about seeing the "closers" in a list like that: I stand by my comments (elsewhere on these boards) - the list bears out (by and large) what a turdfest the 80s output really was.
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dysan
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Post by dysan on Mar 15, 2021 16:26:02 GMT
Growing up with Queen cassettes, it's worth pointing out that Good Company closed Side A. I think that works even better in the concept like a miniature flourish before the break. Likewise, the debut Aide A ended with Seven Seas Of Rhye. Not as good in the scheme of things. Both took some adjustment later on!
Undecided on this. For example, I think LMEY is a fantastic song, but strange in that position aside from the obvious 'close of a side' mysterious ending.
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georg
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Post by georg on Mar 15, 2021 17:13:27 GMT
I would've thought Dead On Time would be a better closer to Jazz than Entertain You – the "You're dead!" shout and thunderclap ending just scream closer.
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Post by primejiveusa on Mar 15, 2021 17:48:49 GMT
Hard to pick just one so I'll just list my favs in no particular order:
My Fairy King Seaside Rendezvous Let Me Entertain You You and I Ride the Wild Wind
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Mar 15, 2021 18:50:44 GMT
MFK - by a mile (for me) one thing about seeing the "closers" in a list like that: I stand by my comments (elsewhere on these boards) - the list bears out (by and large) what a turdfest the 80s output really was. Really? A turdfest? Come on mate. Surely you don't mean that!
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Mar 15, 2021 19:21:58 GMT
MFK - by a mile (for me) one thing about seeing the "closers" in a list like that: I stand by my comments (elsewhere on these boards) - the list bears out (by and large) what a turdfest the 80s output really was. Really? A turdfest? Come on mate. Surely you don't mean that! absolutely!. from 80-86 (for me) there's (just about) one album's worth of material that would stand with their 73-78 output. swathes of their 80-86 stuff is ruined by bad production, lazy song-writing and synthesized instruments (when real bass, drums etc would've sounded so much better) - or in quite a few cases all three! I guess I was spoilt by my formative years being immersed in the sounds of the Beatles, Small Faces, CSN, Zep (who back then I didn't love but could see how good they were), Seger, Eagles, Sam Cooke, Floyd, Purple, Bowie 71-78, Tull, Elton 71-78, Traffic and Queen 73-78...it's a lot for 80s Queen to live up to, and realistically - a huge fall off in quality. if you were a kid growing up and getting into music in the 80s, then I can understand the emotional attachment to the music of that decade. but i try to look at it objectively: 60s - were innovators and pioneers - and (largely) fresh, new and dynamic, 70s were advancement of the 60s, the benefit of better studio equipment pushed artists to stretch and develop. the 80s were very formulaic - and if music could be programmed - it usually was. by everyone. where real instruments still played on, sounds became tinny and hollow. everyone with a guitar, long hair and a can of hairspray was forming a band. you only have to listen to Leppard's first LP and then listen to Pyro and Hysteria - the songs are still very good, but the sound is weak. Two LPs produced by the great Robert "Mutt" Lange. It's hard to believe he also produced Back In Black. One thing I will give the 80s: overall, it's still infinitely better than the decades that followed. but then Steve - convince me. tell me where the quality of composition, production and playing is in the 80-86 output. in truth, if you genuinely think Queen in the 80s were comparable to 70s Queen, give me your address and I'll arrange for Amazon Prime to dispatch you a medium-sized consignment of Otex Express.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Mar 15, 2021 19:24:07 GMT
I would've thought Dead On Time would be a better closer to Jazz than Entertain You – the "You're dead!" shout and thunderclap ending just scream closer. I've thought that too and then literally just swapping LMEY with DOT. But I don't think Queen would've done this as no other Queen album has two songs open both sides written by the same member. In Jazz's case it could've been Mustapha and LMEY but judging by that rule it wouldn't have been considered.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Mar 15, 2021 19:28:41 GMT
Really? A turdfest? Come on mate. Surely you don't mean that! absolutely!. from 80-86 (for me) there's (just about) one album's worth of material that would stand with their 73-78 output. swathes of their 80-86 stuff is ruined by bad production, lazy song-writing and synthesized instruments (when real bass, drums etc would've sounded so much better) - or in quite a few cases all three! I guess I was spoilt by my formative years being immersed in the sounds of the Beatles, Small Faces, CSN, Zep (who back then I didn't love but could see how good they were), Seger, Eagles, Sam Cooke, Floyd, Purple, Bowie 71-78, Tull, Elton 71-78, Traffic and Queen 73-78...after that lot anything else is a huge fall off in quality. if you were a kid growing up and getting into music in the 80s, then I can understand the emotional attachment to the music of that decade. but i try to look at it objectively: 60s - were innovators and pioneers - and (largely) fresh, new and dynamic, 70s were advancement of the 60s, the benefit of better studio equipment pushed artists to stretch and develop. the 80s were very formulaic - and if music could be programmed - it usually was. by everyone. where real instruments still played on, sounds became tinny and hollow. everyone with a guitar, long hair and a can of hairspray was forming a band. you only have to listen to Leppard's first LP and then listen to Pyro and Hysteria - the songs are still very good, but the sound is weak. Two LPs produced by the great Robert "Mutt" Lange. It's hard to believe he also produced Back In Black. One thing I will give the 80s: overall, it's still infinitely better than the decades that followed. Couldn't have put that better myself! Except, I think Hysteria sounds pretty good. It's only the electronic drums that make it sound dated, and that really couldn't be helped given the circumstances with Rick Allen. As for Pyromania, I fully agree that it sounds crap, and I've really never seen why people tend to rate it so highly. I'd rather hear it's predecessor, High And Dry, which was all together a much better album, in my opinion.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Mar 15, 2021 19:29:00 GMT
I personally believe songs with long fade outs don't work as well as side closers especially first side ones. I'm almost expecting something else to happen and it doesn't.
My Fairy King, Seaside Rendezvous and The Kiss personally are my favourite ones as they end on one note.
I think it's stupid Now I'm Here closing a side (especially that even before the album was released it opened Queen's live shows) but then I can't work out what a better alternative is on Sheer Heart Attack.
The Loser In The End, Fight From The Inside, Action This Day and The Invisible Man I personally feel don't work as closers either just by the type of songs they are.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Mar 15, 2021 19:33:56 GMT
I personally believe songs with long fade outs don't work as well as side closers especially first side ones. I'm almost expecting something else to happen and it doesn't. My Fairy King, Seaside Rendezvous and The Kiss personally are my favourite ones as they end on one note. I think it's stupid Now I'm Here closing a side (especially that even before the album was released it opened Queen's live shows) but then I can't work out what a better alternative is on Sheer Heart Attack. The Loser In The End, Fight From The Inside, Action This Day and The Invisible Man I personally feel don't work as closers either just by the type of songs they are. I think fade outs should be banned altogether, and every Queen album should be re-released with the full endings to all the tracks! Why do they do it anyway? A great example is the new Thunder album, on which the one track with a fade out is Destruction, which they also provided a 'live' studio take of on the bonus disc, and that had a proper ending. Bands have to write endings for songs to play them live, so why not to record them in the studio? It's not as though they have the same time constraints these days as they did when all we had was vinyl LPs.
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Post by saintjiub on Mar 16, 2021 1:43:55 GMT
I think The Game is a good album, but disappointing compared to their 70's output. The next four 80's albums are my least favorite, but I would consider them to be mostly a sow's ear rather than a complete turdfest, as each of these four albums has at least three very good or excellent songs (IMHO).
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Post by aronystad on Mar 16, 2021 10:23:50 GMT
The next four 80's albums are my least favorite, but I would consider them to be mostly a sow's ear rather than a complete turdfest, as each of these four albums has at least three very good or excellent songs (IMHO). I agree. There are some really good songs on those albums (as a matter of fact, I'm listening to I Want It All right now), but the entire albums are not the best.
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jeroeng
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Post by jeroeng on Mar 16, 2021 12:22:59 GMT
I personally believe songs with long fade outs don't work as well as side closers especially first side ones. I'm almost expecting something else to happen and it doesn't. My Fairy King, Seaside Rendezvous and The Kiss personally are my favourite ones as they end on one note. I think it's stupid Now I'm Here closing a side (especially that even before the album was released it opened Queen's live shows) but then I can't work out what a better alternative is on Sheer Heart Attack. The Loser In The End, Fight From The Inside, Action This Day and The Invisible Man I personally feel don't work as closers either just by the type of songs they are. I think fade outs should be banned altogether, and every Queen album should be re-released with the full endings to all the tracks! Why do they do it anyway? A great example is the new Thunder album, on which the one track with a fade out is Destruction, which they also provided a 'live' studio take of on the bonus disc, and that had a proper ending. Bands have to write endings for songs to play them live, so why not to record them in the studio? It's not as though they have the same time constraints these days as they did when all we had was vinyl LPs. I generally deslike fade outs... C'mon, you're a musician, think of a proper ending. Most of the times a fade out is simply a lack of musical creativity (not talking single edits here, which are only edited for radio time limits) Although there are some exceptions when I'm OK with a fade out, and that is when a fade out has a meaning, and thus is well-thought. Take for example 'The Show Must Go On', it fades out on repeating 'Go on go on go on...'. That's of course deliberately and works perfect.
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georg
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Post by georg on Mar 16, 2021 13:37:32 GMT
Eh, fade outs don't bother me, unless it's a song that I'm really getting into that fades out too soon (I'm looking at you, 90% of The Beach Boys' discography!).
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Mar 16, 2021 13:41:22 GMT
Really? A turdfest? Come on mate. Surely you don't mean that! absolutely!. from 80-86 (for me) there's (just about) one album's worth of material that would stand with their 73-78 output. swathes of their 80-86 stuff is ruined by bad production, lazy song-writing and synthesized instruments (when real bass, drums etc would've sounded so much better) - or in quite a few cases all three! I guess I was spoilt by my formative years being immersed in the sounds of the Beatles, Small Faces, CSN, Zep (who back then I didn't love but could see how good they were), Seger, Eagles, Sam Cooke, Floyd, Purple, Bowie 71-78, Tull, Elton 71-78, Traffic and Queen 73-78...it's a lot for 80s Queen to live up to, and realistically - a huge fall off in quality. if you were a kid growing up and getting into music in the 80s, then I can understand the emotional attachment to the music of that decade. but i try to look at it objectively: 60s - were innovators and pioneers - and (largely) fresh, new and dynamic, 70s were advancement of the 60s, the benefit of better studio equipment pushed artists to stretch and develop. the 80s were very formulaic - and if music could be programmed - it usually was. by everyone. where real instruments still played on, sounds became tinny and hollow. everyone with a guitar, long hair and a can of hairspray was forming a band. you only have to listen to Leppard's first LP and then listen to Pyro and Hysteria - the songs are still very good, but the sound is weak. Two LPs produced by the great Robert "Mutt" Lange. It's hard to believe he also produced Back In Black. One thing I will give the 80s: overall, it's still infinitely better than the decades that followed. but then Steve - convince me. tell me where the quality of composition, production and playing is in the 80-86 output. in truth, if you genuinely think Queen in the 80s were comparable to 70s Queen, give me your address and I'll arrange for Amazon Prime to dispatch you a medium-sized consignment of Otex Express. Hahaha! That made me laugh. I am obviously one of the rare Queen fans that prefer the 80s output. I just have such huge love for The Miracle and Innuendo as I feel they are amazing albums.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Mar 16, 2021 14:18:18 GMT
I am obviously one of the rare Queen fans that prefer the 80s output. I just have such huge love for The Miracle and Innuendo as I feel they are amazing albums. I did say 80-86. and Innuendo wasn't even an 80s LP. i've openly said lots of times how I prefer Miracle & Innuendo to everything from 80-86, as they were more a return to recognisable Queen. btw - you still haven't even attempted to state your case as to where the quality of composition, production and playing is in the 80-86 output. and as for you genuinely preferring Queen in the 80s to 70s...i hope you don't mind, but i've ordered you 10-years supply of Otex Express. seriously, your preferences are akin to hailing a Trabant 500 over a Maserati GranTurismo
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