|
Post by aaronsamazing on May 8, 2021 21:47:36 GMT
In 1986, the single was released with little-to-no promotion, a low-budget music video (with a grand orchestra) and no 12” remix (the 12” featured the album version, the CD bonus track “Forever” and the regular A and B sides). It reached #24. Heck, even Friends Will Be Friends charted higher than that, and that song is rarely mentioned nowadays.
Then, in 1991 it was included on Greatest Hits II. But it wasn’t the single version, it was an edit of the album version. If they excluded “Scandal”, then why wouldn’t they include “Body Language” (likely due to being the first music video to get banned off MTV) over this?
Then, the song ended up on the 2009 “Absolute Greatest” compilation when there was enough space to include forgotten top 10 hits like “Innuendo”, also album version this time. It has also appeared in serval official Queen compilations on YouTube, even if it wasn’t one of their “greatest music videos”...
I can’t stand that a minor Queen single has turned into a “major” Queen single overtime. Hate revisionist history...
|
|
emrabt
Wordles & Heardles
Politician
Posts: 654
Likes: 379
|
Post by emrabt on May 8, 2021 22:24:26 GMT
Highlander did it.
|
|
Lord Fickle
Global Moderator
Posts: 20,749
Likes: 7,379
|
Post by Lord Fickle on May 8, 2021 23:41:50 GMT
I think it also gained poignancy through Freddie's death. It's not one of my favourite tracks. The horrible drum sound doesn't help.
|
|
|
Post by saintjiub on May 9, 2021 0:20:41 GMT
It is not one of my favorites now, but it was one of my favorites of yore. WWTLF is certainly (in my view) better today than Body Language or Scandal or Scandal ever was. The Highlander movie was a perfect showcase for WWTLF.
At the risk of losing my lunch, perhaps QAL's live performance of WWTLF helped "revise history", and recreate an interest in this song?
In the 80s I lost interest in my other favorite bands (Rush, Heart, Dire Straits and Supertramp) as they went "commercial" with few decent songs beyond the singles. Queen however, although "commercial" (single oriented), still occasionally had a few interesting album tracks with acoustic instruments that were not buried in synthesizers ... and managed to hold my interest for decades to come.
|
|
pg
Queen Mab
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 1,342
|
Post by pg on May 9, 2021 6:39:54 GMT
In 1986, the single was released with little-to-no promotion, a low-budget music video (with a grand orchestra) and no 12” remix (the 12” featured the album version, the CD bonus track “Forever” and the regular A and B sides). It reached #24. Heck, even Friends Will Be Friends charted higher than that, and that song is rarely mentioned nowadays. Then, in 1991 it was included on Greatest Hits II. But it wasn’t the single version, it was an edit of the album version. If they excluded “Scandal”, then why wouldn’t they include “Body Language” (likely due to being the first music video to get banned off MTV) over this? Then, the song ended up on the 2009 “Absolute Greatest” compilation when there was enough space to include forgotten top 10 hits like “Innuendo”, also album version this time. It has also appeared in serval official Queen compilations on YouTube, even if it wasn’t one of their “greatest music videos”... I can’t stand that a minor Queen single has turned into a “major” Queen single overtime. Hate revisionist history... I disagree with parts of your premise: - the video wasn't low budget. It wasn't AKOM with graphics and stuff, but there was an orchestra and a choir (I think) , neither of which would have come cheap (unlike the "epic" Radio Ga Ga video, where the fans were cheap labour). - once albums had been released, examples of a later single getting higher in the chart than a previous one are rare, so the chart placement of this vs the one before it isn't necessarily relevant. - the existence of a 12" mix is nobody's criteria for a song being a classic, is it? - ditto on the edit on GH2. You think the average buyer of that even notices??? The key point about GH2 is being on it at all - it was such a huge seller at the time, and subsequently within the platinum collection, that every song on it BECOMES one of Queen's iconic songs. - inclusion on any subsequent compilation is not revisionism, compilations are always a little scattergun - YouTube compilations, official or otherwise, will include as much material as they can, to keep people watching and create as much ad revenue as possible. In short, I perceive a degree of revisionism in the argument you're putting forward. To widen the argument, what chart position did "iconic" Stairway to Heaven reach? Sweet Home Alabama?
|
|
|
Post by pimderks on May 9, 2021 8:20:55 GMT
I've always wondered if Body Language, Spread Your Wings, TYMD or Scandal would've been considered "classics" if they were on the Greatest Hits albums. TYMD is probably the only track that has been part of pretty much every Queen gig since 1977, still appearing in the setlist and not having been on a Greatest Hits collection? I always wonder how many "generic" fans at concerts actually know it?
|
|
|
Post by soundfreak1 on May 9, 2021 9:25:48 GMT
I can’t stand that a minor Queen single has turned into a “major” Queen single overtime. Hate revisionist history... I think it was always a popular album track and by the time it was released as a single, most Queen listeners already had the album. It was also one of the few album songs the band played live.
In the meantime the song has grown for various reasons already mentioned above, also it has become a highlight in the QAL performances. So I see no revisionism here.
Also it happens all the time, that music "grows" over the years. Complete albums like Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds", Fleetwood Mac's "Tusk" or Kinks' "Village Green" were considered as "flops" when they were released and did not fulfill the sales expectations. Today they are rated as the creative highlights of these bands. Or look at ABBA, who are more respected today than they ever were in their active years.
|
|
BrƎИsꓘi
Administrator
They called it paradise, I don't know why...You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
Posts: 3,738
Likes: 2,868
|
Post by BrƎИsꓘi on May 9, 2021 9:43:33 GMT
In 1986, the single was released with little-to-no promotion, a low-budget music video (with a grand orchestra) and no 12” remix (the 12” featured the album version, the CD bonus track “Forever” and the regular A and B sides). It reached #24. Heck, even Friends Will Be Friends charted higher than that, and that song is rarely mentioned nowadays. this was my bugbear with a certain Gerry on QZ - chart positions. what have chart positions to do with anything? By shoe-horning chart positions into your argument and describing WWTLF as "iconic" - which it isn't, by default this designates higher charting songs like The Firm - Star Trekkin and Black Lace Agadoo, "iconic." ouch! A chart position does not make a song iconic. A public consciousness and relation to the song is what defines its status - the very meaning of the word iconic is derived from worship and adoration. Attributing "iconic" status to something that isn't does little more than render iconoclastic belittlement of the genuinely iconic stuff, by association. and, more worryingly...you can't just arbitrarily assign a label like "iconic" to something. you need to explain why you're tagging the song in this manner. the rest of the world may wish to gainsay your use of "iconic". In the 36 years since WWTLF's release, it's hard to imagine anyone using the term "iconic" in the same sentence as WWTLF...unless of course said sentence was "which song do you prefer, Who wants To Live Forever, or the iconic Bohemian Rhapsody?" Labelling WWTLF "iconic" would be planting both feet firmly in the same camp as those social media posters who describe the burger they just had as "awesome".
|
|
BrƎИsꓘi
Administrator
They called it paradise, I don't know why...You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
Posts: 3,738
Likes: 2,868
|
Post by BrƎИsꓘi on May 9, 2021 10:21:19 GMT
I've always wondered if Body Language, Spread Your Wings, TYMD or Scandal would've been considered "classics" if they were on the Greatest Hits albums. TYMD is probably the only track that has been part of pretty much every Queen gig since 1977, still appearing in the setlist and not having been on a Greatest Hits collection? I always wonder how many "generic" fans at concerts actually know it? almost certainly not - regardless of which perspective we choose to adopt. If we take TYMD for example - a concert staple. the best example I can think to compare it to is Eagles Heartache Tonight (another UK non-hit). the band's UK fans hold the song with a huge amount of reverence. It's the one song at their gigs that EVERYBODY loves and joins in with. it's appeared on all of their Greatest Hits compilations since it's initial release. However - to this day most casual UK rock fans are only really aware of HC and the bigger hits and Heartache Tonight is certainly not considered a classic by UK rock fans in general.
|
|
Lplix
Wordles & Heardles
Pedagogue
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 741
|
Post by Lplix on May 9, 2021 12:29:09 GMT
I think it also gained poignancy through Freddie's death. It's not one of my favourite tracks. The horrible drum sound doesn't help. right, I think so too. songs like WWTLF, The Show must go on, these are the days of our lives took strength after Freddie's departure being very tied to his life, even if they were not his songs, but they reflected the pain of his disappearance.
|
|
oreno
Ploughman
Posts: 251
Likes: 315
|
Post by oreno on May 9, 2021 13:18:06 GMT
Yeah all the above.
In the end though, minor single, major song, is dead right. They were open about the GH2 tracklisting reflecting the more iconic/memorable Queen tracks, regardless of chart position. A lot of the kudos for songs would come from album sales as well, so the "Hot Space" singles simply weren't getting a look in in the same way (bar UP, which doesn't count). Highlander also made WWTLF a song with a longer 'after life', I reckon. As for the edit, every song on GH2 was edited..
Tell you what though, it's maybe just my take, but I do think that what "Queen" is was set very firmly in stone at the end of 1991 and remains so. That meant - GH1, GH2, Days of Our Lives. Outside of that, I can only think of "Live Aid" that genuinely sits within the Queen 'must have' (or at least see) list for the average punter. All the subsequent work/ comps - MIH, AG, or whatever, were never going to break into that group.
The same goes for the likes of TYMD, Scandal, which had their chance but never made it.
In fact, to be blunt, 80s Queen - Under Pressure/ Radio Gaga, I Want To Break Free/ A Kind Of Magic, One Vision, Who Wants To Live Forever/ I Want It All. Everything else, even on GH2, was an 'also ran', ultimately, in terms of status.
|
|
|
Post by martinpacker on May 9, 2021 13:30:27 GMT
I remember the "organ pipes" at Knebworth. And I've always liked the song. Including the comedy value of Freddie blowing away Brian's singing (which I also liked on this track).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2021 22:37:13 GMT
...a low-budget music video (with a grand orchestra) How can it be 'low-budget' if it had a 'grand orchestra'? It's a bit like a vegetarian who eats steaks... Then, the song ended up on the 2009 “Absolute Greatest” compilation when there was enough space to include forgotten top 10 hits like “Innuendo”, also album version this time. Brian and Roger picked the tracks for it. 'Who Wants to Live Forever' has been covered by some high-profile artists and Roger said he considered it one of Brian's best compositions ever (which I fully agree with). It earned its place there. I can’t stand that a minor Queen single has turned into a “major” Queen single overtime. Hate revisionist history... It's not revisionist: as you correctly point out, it's aged well, and it's not the only track to do so.
|
|
georg
Global Moderator
wrote several books
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 1,349
|
Post by georg on May 10, 2021 0:10:16 GMT
I can’t stand that a minor Queen single has turned into a “major” Queen single overtime. Hate revisionist history... What an odd thing to get worked up over. Do you not like the fact that Don’t Stop Me Now is now bigger than it was when it was first released?
|
|
Frank
Politician
Posts: 754
Likes: 681
|
Post by Frank on May 10, 2021 1:35:45 GMT
WWTLF is arguably Brian's most beautiful creation and probably my favorite of his from the 1980s. I think the album version is flawless (I don't get the gripe over the drums), but the live version could at times feel lackluster. For me it always felt like it was missing something (the orchestra perhaps). And perhaps I'll be burned alive for saying this, but Adam's interpretation is absolutely astonishing, and while it may have renewed some interest, I don't think it did enough to account for the song's popularity nowadays. It's a song that's evolved through its meaning. It changed from being about a tragic movie romance to being about the tragic death of a beloved legend (further solidified by its use in Bohemian Rhapsody). It's brilliant and deserves the attention it now gets.
|
|
BrƎИsꓘi
Administrator
They called it paradise, I don't know why...You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
Posts: 3,738
Likes: 2,868
|
Post by BrƎИsꓘi on May 10, 2021 5:39:06 GMT
I think it also gained poignancy through Freddie's death. It's not one of my favourite tracks. The horrible drum sound doesn't help. right, I think so too. songs like WWTLF, The Show must go on, these are the days of our lives took strength after Freddie's departure being very tied to his life, even if they were not his songs, but they reflected the pain of his disappearance. although - with the greatest respect to the band - TSMGO and TATDOOL are truly iconic songs (and always have been), while WWTLF never was and never will be.
|
|
oreno
Ploughman
Posts: 251
Likes: 315
|
Post by oreno on May 10, 2021 10:48:31 GMT
Disagree there Brenski, and with the greatest respect to yourself and the band, TATDOOL is not an iconic song, unless accompanied by the video. On the Innunedo album it was a bit of a nothing, pleasant enough of course, but not in the same league as TSMGO or the earlier WWTLF.
DOOL without the weight of the video would simply be a very well respected ballad. TSMGO and WWTLF would still be top tier Queen songs even if they'd not been singles.
|
|
Lord Fickle
Global Moderator
Posts: 20,749
Likes: 7,379
|
Post by Lord Fickle on May 10, 2021 11:44:34 GMT
I think it's worth bearing in mind that were it not for Freddie's condition, TATDOOL and TSMGO would most probably not have been written, and that's what gives them their extra poignancy.
|
|
NathanH
Ploughman
Posts: 495
Likes: 426
|
Post by NathanH on May 14, 2021 18:58:40 GMT
I'm late to this but I really want to say my opinion.
I think Who Wants To Live Forever is one of Queen's best songs, it's incredibly powerful and got very meaningful lyrics which I think puts it ahead of many other similar Queen songs.
It still sounds modern and fresh, and the addition of the orchestra is a really nice touch as it shows the band loved the song and even if they didn't think it was going to be a single (several months after the album and one month after the tour) they thought it was going to be worthwhile to make it more special.
On the Magic Tour it was one of the highlights of the show, I think it got better as the tour went on. Freddie's vocal power and how they rearranged the song for the live setting still sounds epic. (The way Brian plays keys one minute and in a few seconds switches to the guitar is often flawless and I don't get tired of watching or listening! I wish he'd still do something like that now because it really does show Brian is a very fine pianist too.) Its Budapest '86 performance is one of the Queen live recordings I listen to most, in my top 5.
Okay I can't help it but being biased as it is one of my favourite Queen songs! And it always has been since I discovered it on YouTube when I was about 7 or 8, or whenever it first got uploaded on Queen's official account!
|
|
Frank
Politician
Posts: 754
Likes: 681
|
Post by Frank on May 14, 2021 23:15:40 GMT
I'm late to this but I really want to say my opinion. I think Who Wants To Live Forever is one of Queen's best songs, it's incredibly powerful and got very meaningful lyrics which I think puts it ahead of many other similar Queen songs. It still sounds modern and fresh, and the addition of the orchestra is a really nice touch as it shows the band loved the song and even if they didn't think it was going to be a single (several months after the album and one month after the tour) they thought it was going to be worthwhile to make it more special. On the Magic Tour it was one of the highlights of the show, I think it got better as the tour went on. Freddie's vocal power and how they rearranged the song for the live setting still sounds epic. (The way Brian plays keys one minute and in a few seconds switches to the guitar is often flawless and I don't get tired of watching or listening! I wish he'd still do something like that now because it really does show Brian is a very fine pianist too.) Its Budapest '86 performance is one of the Queen live recordings I listen to most, in my top 5. Okay I can't help it but being biased as it is one of my favourite Queen songs! And it always has been since I discovered it on YouTube when I was about 7 or 8, or whenever it first got uploaded on Queen's official account! I don't think you're biased at all. It's a damn fine recording. And I was less than excited regarding live performances of the song, but I still find the '86 Budapest performance to be fantastic. I just think, in all honesty, Adam Lambert takes it to a different realm. If I had to choose, of course, it's Freddie every time.
|
|
|
Post by megagoalie on May 15, 2021 11:21:35 GMT
And, remember, a cover version of WWTLF was a huge hit for Dutch Techno group Dune back in the 90s.....no. 2 in Germany, 3 in Austria ind 9 in Switzwerland....
|
|
jeroeng
Dragonfly Trumpeter
Posts: 149
Likes: 118
|
Post by jeroeng on May 15, 2021 18:14:21 GMT
And, remember, a cover version of WWTLF was a huge hit for Dutch Techno group Dune back in the 90s.....no. 2 in Germany, 3 in Austria ind 9 in Switzwerland.... Dune was actually a German group ;-)
|
|
pg
Queen Mab
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 1,342
|
Post by pg on May 16, 2021 6:10:02 GMT
And, remember, a cover version of WWTLF was a huge hit for Dutch Techno group Dune back in the 90s.....no. 2 in Germany, 3 in Austria ind 9 in Switzwerland.... I'm not sure that ADDS to the iconic!
|
|
jlf
Satyr
Posts: 82
Likes: 109
|
Post by jlf on May 16, 2021 18:48:28 GMT
Chart Success isn't really a good indicator of whether or not a song should be regarded as a classic or a high quality song. I think Who Wants To Live Forever is a far better song than Friends will be Friends, but of course at the time, in 1986, the latter was more radio friendly. Who Wants To Live Forever is not an upbeat song, it doesn't fit in with the 80s dance evolution, it's an out of place orchestral rock piece that works for the film soundtrack. As a composition, I think it's an excellent song. I think the vocal on it is absolutely beautiful. I think that the video is extremely good and actually has aged quite well.
The song meant a lot to Queen and to Queen fans at the time, and its inclusion on GH2 in 1991 isn't surprising really, since on a Greatest Hits compilation you want to put your best face on for the fans, regardless of whether every single song was a top-ten hit. The songs from Hot Space, apart from Under Pressure, weren't highly regarded by even the band, and by 1991 they sounded extremely dated. Body Language is not really a hit song or a classic by any stretch of the imagination, although it has some clever moments (the diminished chord on Body Languaaaaage). I say this with the greatest respect for Freddie Mercury but it sounds like a reject from Mr Bad Guy that made it onto a Queen album.
Scandal wasn't Queen's favourite song at the time of release either, and although it has some compelling moments in it, it's not something I go out of my way to listen to, and maybe other listeners feel the same about it. I liked The Miracle album when I was younger, but now I kind of skip over it. I like some songs, I want it all and The Miracle, and Breakthru invokes some nice memories, but I find it a patchy album. Perhaps that's not surprising as Queen were spreading themselves quite thin at that point - Freddie was working on Barcelona, Roger was working on The Cross, Brian was starting a solo project that took years to emerge, and I'm not actually sure what John was doing in those years, plus they all had stuff going on in their personal lives, not least Freddie's diagnosis. The Miracle kind of sounds like a half-assed attempt to get the band back together after a hiatus, although the strong moments are really strong. The filler is verging on unlistenable to me, and I was honestly surprised over the announcement of the 30th anniversary box of 2019 that didn't come to light, and which I wouldn't have bought anyway.
I think I've said some pretty harsh stuff here, it's not like I've achieved anything like what Queen has achieved, and I'm only saying this as a listener, so feel free to tell me to F*** Off!
|
|
Lord Fickle
Global Moderator
Posts: 20,749
Likes: 7,379
|
Post by Lord Fickle on May 16, 2021 19:14:10 GMT
Scandal wasn't Queen's favourite song at the time of release either, and although it has some compelling moments in it, it's not something I go out of my way to listen to, and maybe other listeners feel the same about it. I liked The Miracle album when I was younger, but now I kind of skip over it. I like some songs, I want it all and The Miracle, and Breakthru invokes some nice memories, but I find it a patchy album. Perhaps that's not surprising as Queen were spreading themselves quite thin at that point - Freddie was working on Barcelona, Roger was working on The Cross, Brian was starting a solo project that took years to emerge, and I'm not actually sure what John was doing in those years, plus they all had stuff going on in their personal lives, not least Freddie's diagnosis. The Miracle kind of sounds like a half-assed attempt to get the band back together after a hiatus, although the strong moments are really strong. The filler is verging on unlistenable to me, and I was honestly surprised over the announcement of the 30th anniversary box of 2019 that didn't come to light, and which I wouldn't have bought anyway. I think I've said some pretty harsh stuff here, it's not like I've achieved anything like what Queen has achieved, and I'm only saying this as a listener, so feel free to tell me to F*** Off! On the contrary! I think that's pretty spot on with regards The Miracle, although I think Was It All Worth It was probably one of the best tracks on all of the last three records, of which the fillers from all three could have made a complete album.
|
|
|
Post by saintjiub on May 16, 2021 20:14:56 GMT
One person's filler is another's feast.
Regarding The Miracle album, I consider KS, tIM and RMF to be feasts. However ??most?? others probably consider them to be crap.
|
|
|
Post by martinpacker on May 17, 2021 10:46:48 GMT
Scandal was and is one of my favourite tracks off Miracle. To me it - voices and guitar - reeks of painful emotions. A that point I wouldn't say Scandal is at all about Freddie. Written later it would've been.
|
|
georg
Global Moderator
wrote several books
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 1,349
|
Post by georg on May 17, 2021 15:59:27 GMT
I’ve softened my vitriol for The Miracle over time, to the point that I think the only really bad song is Party. It’s not my favorite Queen album but I have learned to appreciate Rain Must Fall and My Baby Does Me, two tracks I was more prone to skip than others.
|
|
Lord Fickle
Global Moderator
Posts: 20,749
Likes: 7,379
|
Post by Lord Fickle on May 17, 2021 16:52:41 GMT
For me, the trouble with the last three albums was that they all had tremendous lead singles (One Vision, I Want It All, Innuendo), which each time I thought was going to be a return to form with some heavier stuff, but then the albums came along and never really lived up to the expectations of the singles.
|
|
n39
Ploughman
Posts: 309
Likes: 248
|
Post by n39 on May 17, 2021 17:10:00 GMT
For me, the trouble with the last three albums was that they all had tremendous lead singles (One Vision, I Want It All, Innuendo), which each time I thought was going to be a return to form with some heavier stuff, but then the albums came along and never really lived up to the expectations of the singles. Just proves the point that Queen indeed are, to the average person, a singles band. I was discussing this with a friend the other day, Queen have at least 20 tracks that are truly iconic and are known around the world by most people. However, as much as us diehard fans love to consider them an albums band, most ordinary music fans would struggle to name an album title, apart from perhaps 'A Night at the Opera'. It is indeed a real shame, as I think the quality of their albums as works of art are much more impressive than the hits as standalone singles.
|
|