dysan
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Post by dysan on Jul 22, 2021 8:53:12 GMT
It's literally the only remix that I can think of from the top of my head (Queen or otherwise) that may be better than the original mix. It is good. I wonder if it was swapped out for the Rah mix because it was too similar for the casual listener to the original version which was already on GH2? I remember that John article appearing in the paper. It was nice at the time knowing he was out and about and Queen were still tootling along. Strange looking back and realising they were all basically in turmoil.
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toon86
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Post by toon86 on Jul 22, 2021 11:12:16 GMT
I heard from a good source they fell out because of the AOBTD crap on GHIII. John wanted another mix, but the others insisted on the mess that was the Small Soldiers version. Just a rumour of course. Still think it would be good to get an interview and see how he is doing.
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Golden Salmon
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Post by Golden Salmon on Jul 22, 2021 17:10:03 GMT
I heard from a good source they fell out because of the AOBTD crap on GHIII. John wanted another mix, but the others insisted on the mess that was the Small Soldiers version. Just a rumour of course. Still think it would be good to get an interview and see how he is doing. I can buy this. Imagine being John and: - Your UP mix is relegated to b-side. - You are outvoted / dismissed regarding a remix of your own song that you don't like. - There's nothing else in there. It's all somebody else's songs, even from solo releases. - Any other ideas are also ignored. Couple these with John's mental health issues and I can understand if he felt he was done with Queen. I could understand including "Barcelona" since Freddie was gone and it features a guest voice, matching the other four tracks: - TSMGO - UP - STL - AOBTD However, when you realise what kind of barrel-scraping exercise GH3 really is: - 4 different versions of previous GH tracks (see above) - 4 non-Queen songs (5 with NOBY) - Lesser hits such as "Las Palabras De Amor" * (LOL) - And a goddamn Christmas song to top it off John's efforts are seemingly less important than these. I guess they couldn't bring up "Back Chat" and keep a straight face, but they could at least, dunno, have tried to add "Spread Your Wings" (missed GH1 by a hair) as a single extra track, just to throw him a bone or something. But hey, they included John's Mike Spencer mix instead of "Body Language" (pretty sure they flipped a coin). * "Las Palabras De Amor" was #1 in Poland. I guess that's something.
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dysan
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Post by dysan on Jul 22, 2021 17:54:39 GMT
If GH3 only existed as the bonus disc in the Platinum Collection I'd think yeah fine. Tie up some loose ends etc. But as a stand alone flagship release I just couldn't believe what I was hearing. It all sounded so dated even in 1999. Regarding the track listing, yeah the duplicates from the previous GH albums was a waste. They could even have used a favourite album track as the launch single - or maybe reissue Spread Your Wings for example. I think I say it every time, but would've been a great excuse to use All The Young Dudes from the tribute show (the audio of which was released on Mick Ronson's posthumous album Heaven & Hull) to blend that in to their catalogue.
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Post by Mercury Roadrunner on Jul 22, 2021 23:09:55 GMT
As for the part of this topic, touching the point that John had a hard time seeing Freddie's fading -
the last time John came to Freddie's house was around the beginning-closer to the middle of October 1991 -
before Freddie's last visit to Montreux, -
so, yes, it was hard for him, knowing that Freddie's days are numbered, but at the same time, knowing that the main Freddie's wish was to continue to record new music as long as it is possible, and taking into attention John's solidarity with Freddie, I also think that David Richards' words about John's absence on 'Innuendo' were about the song, definitely not the whole album.
Plus, bass parts could have been recorded firstly indeed by another bass player, but still - they could have been re-recorded by John himself later on, in any moment the timeline of recording 'Innuendo' holds, even in the last moments, when they were putting the finishing touches.
So, maybe, David Richards meant that John wasn't involved in 'Innuendo' (the song) in the beginning of recording it and maybe they kept the version with another bass player on it untill the time when John came into the studio and rerecorded his part.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Jul 23, 2021 8:00:06 GMT
As for the part of this topic, touching the point that John had a hard time seeing Freddie's fading - the last time John came to Freddie's house was around the beginning-closer to the middle of October 1991 - before Freddie's last visit to Montreux, - so, yes, it was hard for him, knowing that Freddie's days are numbered, but at the same time, knowing that the main Freddie's wish was to continue to record new music as long as it is possible, and taking into attention John's solidarity with Freddie, I also think that David Richards' words about John's absence on 'Innuendo' were about the song, definitely not the whole album. Plus, bass parts could have been recorded firstly indeed by another bass player, but still - they could have been re-recorded by John himself later on, in any moment the timeline of recording 'Innuendo' holds, even in the last moments, when they were putting the finishing touches. So, maybe, David Richards meant that John wasn't involved in 'Innuendo' (the song) in the beginning of recording it and maybe they kept the version with another bass player on it untill the time when John came into the studio and rerecorded his part. It is well known that Innuendo (song) started as a jam. Then envoled into the basic track and Brian added some guitars, Freddie some more vocals and David programmed the orchestra part in the middle. In the end Steve added Spanish guitar. All that were heard during 2017. Because it is mentioned in 1992 biography or David said it. It does not mean that is true, since the audio proves that John is playing. Being absent for a while, it doesn't mean that he didn't go and played later.
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Golden Salmon
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Post by Golden Salmon on Jul 25, 2021 8:26:21 GMT
So, maybe, David Richards meant that John wasn't involved in 'Innuendo' (the song) in the beginning of recording it and maybe they kept the version with another bass player on it untill the time when John came into the studio and rerecorded his part. Just wondering: "Innuendo's" videoclip always bothered me because the band doesn't actually appear on it. Do we know why? Rather than Freddie being too sick, is there a chance that John simply wasn't available by the time he should have been? I can understand "The Show Must Go On" wouldn't have featured Freddie at that point, but then again they did other three clips for Innuendo with the whole band.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Jul 25, 2021 13:36:45 GMT
So, maybe, David Richards meant that John wasn't involved in 'Innuendo' (the song) in the beginning of recording it and maybe they kept the version with another bass player on it untill the time when John came into the studio and rerecorded his part. Just wondering: "Innuendo's" videoclip always bothered me because the band doesn't actually appear on it. Do we know why? Rather than Freddie being too sick, is there a chance that John simply wasn't available by the time he should have been? I can understand "The Show Must Go On" wouldn't have featured Freddie at that point, but then again they did other three clips for Innuendo with the whole band. Sounds plausible regarding John not being around. It was the lead single, so it was early enough for Freddie to have been filmed. Can't see any other reason other than perhaps they considered Freddie wouldn't be up for making a film for every single, so they planned ahead of time to use animation for one of the films. Looking back, we were pretty lucky to have gotten three videos with Freddie that year.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Jul 25, 2021 13:42:14 GMT
Is it just me, or is the bass turned way down low in Don't Try So Hard? I have to wear headphones to pick it out. I'm listening to the 2011 remaster. I did crank up the volume later on and he is in there. Sounds like John to me! I just can't fathom why he's so low in the mix. It's frustrating because there are some beautiful counterpoint to be found. Here's a nice bass cover where you can see his parts. Not sure how accurate it is, but it's a nice listen.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Jul 25, 2021 13:48:52 GMT
Is it just me, or is the bass turned way down low in Don't Try So Hard? I have to wear headphones to pick it out. I'm listening to the 2011 remaster. I did crank up the volume later on and he is in there. Sounds like John to me! I just can't fathom why he's so low in the mix. I think the whole album mix is a frustrating mush. The bass is there but indistinct, and even on the tracks Roger actually plays on, in some parts you can barely hear the drums above the 'wall' of everthing else. Really hope they remix it at some point, but can't see it happening as that would require a modicum of effort.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Jul 25, 2021 14:35:29 GMT
I did crank up the volume later on and he is in there. Sounds like John to me! I just can't fathom why he's so low in the mix. I think the whole album mix is a frustrating mush. The bass is there but indistinct, and even on the tracks Roger actually plays on, in some parts you can barely hear the drums above the 'wall' of everthing else. Really hope they remix it at some point, but can't see it happening as that would require a modicum of effort. While it's my favorite album, you're right. It could use an overhaul. Granted, they did improve it ever so slightly with the 2011 remaster. I remember The Hitman kind of fading out at one point and that was fixed.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 14, 2021 18:33:03 GMT
I always thought that John's lack of input might've been because they agreed to share credits so he thought I'll still be making money so what's the point! This could be the case if they didn't agree to share credits on The Miracle album quite late on after John's submitted his contributions!
But I do think John may have left Queen anyway especially that he had child number six in 1992 and his mental health wasn't great since the mid-80s anyway. Probably not after he might've felt responsible for Hot Space's failure and Queen's gap before The Works where he didn't know what to do. (Him writing Another One Bites The Dust undeniably caused Queen to start using this disco, rhythmic genre in more of their songs.)
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Post by 85guild on Aug 15, 2021 18:10:29 GMT
^^^
actually, John didn't like the direction of Hot Space a lot, and Roger's Fun It from Jazz is a whole lot more disco like than AOBTD so not sure why he'd feel responsible for HS failure.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 15, 2021 20:15:17 GMT
85guild But Fun It wasn't a single which sold seven million copies and was arguably the reason for Queen's peak in 1980. Also, I didn't mean disco songs, disco-like and hence why I said "rhythmic genre" (all of Side A of Hot Space is rhythmic to me). What I meant by this was is that it was because of Another One Bites The Dust being a huge success that Queen thought to do more in the style. If it hadn't of been a single or even a huge success, then I bet they wouldn't have made Hot Space like how it sounds. (John probably thought that it was his song that caused Queen to record songs like Staying Power, Dancer and Body Language.) In the 1980s, Queen became a commercial band making songs and albums in styles that were popular at the time. They were conscious of what was happening in the music world.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Aug 15, 2021 22:04:22 GMT
^^^ actually, John didn't like the direction of Hot Space a lot, and Roger's Fun It from Jazz is a whole lot more disco like than AOBTD so not sure why he'd feel responsible for HS failure. I don't know where you learned that John didn't like the direction of Hot Space. Can you tell me where you read/heard this? As far as I can recall, he embraced it more than May or Taylor. Maybe not as much as Freddie, but stuff like Back Chat was right up John's alley. If anything, he may have been upset about some of the push back from May regarding the BC guitar solo. Also, I don't see how Fun It is more 'disco' than AOBTD. Commercially, the latter is more successful production wise and fits the genre like a glove (clearly proven by its ability to cross different genre charts). Production on Fun It was mediocre at best and it didn't have as strong of a hook (both chorus and riffs). It's largely forgettable. Even if it had been released as a lead single (was on the B side for Jealousy) I'd bet it wouldn't have even made a ripple. All that said, I do agree with you that John didn't feel responsible. Why should he? Freddie was the driving force for a lot of the funk stuff on the A side of Hot Space. John was probably happy to go along with the ride. And frankly, the stuff on Hot Space isn't terrible. I do think it'd have been more commercially successful had it been more organically produced. What really killed Hot Space was its lack of unity and theme. What in the hell was the goal anyway? If the goal was to go funk then it should have been funk with a few different things for good measure. But instead, the bulk of the A side was funk and the B side was essentially the logical succession from The Game. The band couldn't agree and so they essentially compromised which in the end produced Queen's weakest album. It feels disjointed and too synth driven. We've heard others say it before, but if they had at least recorded the funk tracks live with actual percussion and bass guitar you'd have yourself a stronger record.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Aug 15, 2021 22:12:22 GMT
85guild But Fun It wasn't a single which sold seven million copies and was arguably the reason for Queen's peak in 1980. Also, I didn't mean disco songs, disco-like and hence why I said "rhythmic genre" (all of Side A of Hot Space is rhythmic to me). What I meant by this was is that it was because of Another One Bites The Dust being a huge success that Queen thought to do more in the style. If it hadn't of been a single or even a huge success, then I bet they wouldn't have made Hot Space like how it sounds. (John probably thought that it was his song that caused Queen to record songs like Staying Power, Dancer and Body Language.) In the 1980s, Queen became a commercial band making songs and albums in styles that were popular at the time. They were conscious of what was happening in the music world. Continuing from what I've already said, even if John wrote AOBTD it wasn't his sole responsibility to make Hot Space a success. I doubt he'd feel much blame. The difference between AOBTD and a lot of the funk stuff on Hot Space is that it actually sounded fresh and inspired. None of the stuff on Hot Space (funk wise) sounds like that. It sounds like stuff put together by musicians who weren't communicating enough. So it's not John's fault for Hot Space's failure. It was the group's fault for letting itself become less stable. Remember, it was rare for all four of them to be in the recording studio by that point.
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Post by saintjiub on Aug 15, 2021 22:20:38 GMT
^^^ actually, John didn't like the direction of Hot Space a lot, and Roger's Fun It from Jazz is a whole lot more disco like than AOBTD so not sure why he'd feel responsible for HS failure. I don't know where you learned that John didn't like the direction of Hot Space. Can you tell me where you read/heard this? As far as I can recall, he embraced it more than May or Taylor. Maybe not as much as Freddie, but stuff like Back Chat was right up John's alley. If anything, he may have been upset about some of the push back from May regarding the BC guitar solo.
There is some commentary in the above link, and an old very reliable QueenChat member (Deleted) thought he might have a quote buried in his hard drive. I guess we will never know.
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Post by Chopin1995 on Aug 15, 2021 22:48:45 GMT
^^^ actually, John didn't like the direction of Hot Space a lot, and Roger's Fun It from Jazz is a whole lot more disco like than AOBTD so not sure why he'd feel responsible for HS failure. I don't know where you learned that John didn't like the direction of Hot Space. Can you tell me where you read/heard this? As far as I can recall, he embraced it more than May or Taylor. Maybe not as much as Freddie, but stuff like Back Chat was right up John's alley. If anything, he may have been upset about some of the push back from May regarding the BC guitar solo. Also, I don't see how Fun It is more 'disco' than AOBTD. Commercially, the latter is more successful production wise and fits the genre like a glove (clearly proven by its ability to cross different genre charts). Production on Fun It was mediocre at best and it didn't have as strong of a hook (both chorus and riffs). It's largely forgettable. Even if it had been released as a lead single (was on the B side for Jealousy) I'd bet it wouldn't have even made a ripple. All that said, I do agree with you that John didn't feel responsible. Why should he? Freddie was the driving force for a lot of the funk stuff on the A side of Hot Space. John was probably happy to go along with the ride. And frankly, the stuff on Hot Space isn't terrible. I do think it'd have been more commercially successful had it been more organically produced. What really killed Hot Space was its lack of unity and theme. What in the hell was the goal anyway? If the goal was to go funk then it should have been funk with a few different things for good measure. But instead, the bulk of the A side was funk and the B side was essentially the logical succession from The Game. The band couldn't agree and so they essentially compromised which in the end produced Queen's weakest album. It feels disjointed and too synth driven. We've heard others say it before, but if they had at least recorded the funk tracks live with actual percussion and bass guitar you'd have yourself a stronger record. John said it himself in this interview: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzOt2VGUAlk&t=492s8m12s
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Aug 15, 2021 23:33:18 GMT
I don't know where you learned that John didn't like the direction of Hot Space. Can you tell me where you read/heard this? As far as I can recall, he embraced it more than May or Taylor. Maybe not as much as Freddie, but stuff like Back Chat was right up John's alley. If anything, he may have been upset about some of the push back from May regarding the BC guitar solo. Also, I don't see how Fun It is more 'disco' than AOBTD. Commercially, the latter is more successful production wise and fits the genre like a glove (clearly proven by its ability to cross different genre charts). Production on Fun It was mediocre at best and it didn't have as strong of a hook (both chorus and riffs). It's largely forgettable. Even if it had been released as a lead single (was on the B side for Jealousy) I'd bet it wouldn't have even made a ripple. All that said, I do agree with you that John didn't feel responsible. Why should he? Freddie was the driving force for a lot of the funk stuff on the A side of Hot Space. John was probably happy to go along with the ride. And frankly, the stuff on Hot Space isn't terrible. I do think it'd have been more commercially successful had it been more organically produced. What really killed Hot Space was its lack of unity and theme. What in the hell was the goal anyway? If the goal was to go funk then it should have been funk with a few different things for good measure. But instead, the bulk of the A side was funk and the B side was essentially the logical succession from The Game. The band couldn't agree and so they essentially compromised which in the end produced Queen's weakest album. It feels disjointed and too synth driven. We've heard others say it before, but if they had at least recorded the funk tracks live with actual percussion and bass guitar you'd have yourself a stronger record. John said it himself in this interview: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzOt2VGUAlk&t=492s8m12s This is excellent. Thank you.
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Post by 85guild on Aug 17, 2021 15:11:42 GMT
Yes, Frank, had seen the video and Sebastian's analysis many times before so that's where I learned about John not liking HS . I think people think because of the bass dominance in AOBTD John was the impetus behind the move to a sparser sound in HS, but on The Game his other single was a pretty quick pop rocker so not like his head was in dance world like Freddie's was.
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Post by munichqueenfan on Mar 22, 2023 11:35:13 GMT
What I find strange is that John and Roger were apparently the ones who took the lead on Made In Heaven. They did perform together as Queen in 1993. Roger even said they would continue as Queen, "with or without Brian". Meanwhile it seems common knowledge that after the Magic Tour John became less involved in the band/studio. I think John was still pretty much involved on the Miracle album. In the Queen book from Jacky Gunn and Jim Jenkins it is mentioned that he was even the first one who started writing songs for a new Queen album (after the Magic Tour). The others have been more into their solo projects at that time. And indeed he wrote/co-wrote at least RMF, MBDM, MLHBS. He looks also very motivated and in good mood in the interview on the film set of Breakthru. So it is really hard to tell what happened a year later. His family problems had a peak at the end of the magic tour (Veronica and him were close to break up) - maybe cumulating in the throw of his bass at the end of RG at Knebworth.
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vicspec
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Post by vicspec on Mar 23, 2023 22:05:29 GMT
He may also have brought tracks to the group for Innuendo that didn't make the final cut. The demo for "My Secret Fantasy" sounds like something from John.
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ozzraven
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Post by ozzraven on Dec 22, 2023 5:47:03 GMT
In this old interview, I was only 12 so I managed to destroy the magazine which name I can't remember now, there was an interview to David Richards and Noel Harris about the technical aspects of the recording of Innuendo. This is all I have left, is in spanish, but David mentions John working in the studio in the "bass overdubs" connected directly to the mixer channels playing his parts separatedly imgur.com/a/nfsDWsF
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Dec 22, 2023 10:35:59 GMT
In this old interview, I was only 12 so I managed to destroy the magazine which name I can't remember now, there was an interview to David Richards and Noel Harris about the technical aspects of the recording of Innuendo. This is all I have left, is in spanish, but David mentions John working in the studio in the "bass overdubs" connected directly to the mixer channels playing his parts separatedly imgur.com/a/nfsDWsFIt was also metioned on the biography book as it began 1992. However Innuendo is almost a live jam, Hitman and the show must go on, don't try so hard, IGSM have many contributions of John either bass or other instruments and orchestrations. There is a bass part in IGSM very crazy out of the rules. Maybe for some songs his bass parts were overdubed Thus the veil sound in the mix.
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