Raf
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Sweet like some kind of cheese
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Post by Raf on Nov 5, 2021 1:42:27 GMT
Isn't this the solution to "there's no isolated piano mike from Earl's Court"? One could argue this isn't professional enough, as AI isn't perfect and there will obviously be some leaking from other instruments and maybe audience noise. And perhaps the most serious problem is that some of the vocals leak into the instrumentals. So, if they spread the isolated instruments from the master tapes over several channels and put the AI-isolated vocals into a single channel, there's a chance that sometimes Freddie's voice could fade away and come back. I don't know the inner details of this algorithm, but there's even a chance some less audible frequencies could be missing from all over the lead vocal track, which could mean a thinner and duller sound, poorer in harmonics. They'd have to also use the mono/stereo mix available today to make sure full vocals are present, but without letting it mess the 5.1 mix too much. Sounds a little difficult. But hey, AI keeps evolving, so who knows? |
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Post by Dry Paint Dealer Undr on Nov 5, 2021 14:07:10 GMT
Isn't this the solution to "there's no isolated piano mike from Earl's Court"? One could argue this isn't professional enough, as AI isn't perfect and there will obviously be some leaking from other instruments and maybe audience noise. And perhaps the most serious problem is that some of the vocals leak into the instrumentals. So, if they spread the isolated instruments from the master tapes over several channels and put the AI-isolated vocals into a single channel, there's a chance that sometimes Freddie's voice could fade away and come back. I don't know the inner details of this algorithm, but there's even a chance some less audible frequencies could be missing from all over the lead vocal track, which could mean a thinner and duller sound, poorer in harmonics. They'd have to also use the mono/stereo mix available today to make sure full vocals are present, but without letting it mess the 5.1 mix too much. Sounds a little difficult. But hey, AI keeps evolving, so who knows? There is a newer ai vocal remover type that can in theory pick up almost inaudible vocals or any other sounds, it’s not quite there yet but the ones we have are showing good results |
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DasTarD
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Post by DasTarD on Nov 8, 2021 17:39:01 GMT
Haha, a few weeks back, I managed to install it and it works great. Then I tried a new version but it doesn't work as good as the other one. |
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DasTarD
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Post by DasTarD on Nov 18, 2021 7:46:14 GMT
I have a problem with the AI vocal remover that Chinwonder2 posted. After the AI has processed the vocals and instruments and I got it in my Google Drive. After that I downloaded it and I tried to play the tracks but it didn't work it just didn't play and the files size were 44.00B only. Can anybody help me what is wrong with that? Thanks! If they are 44bytes then there is no music in there. To test if it is a problem with the files, try to open it IN Google Drive, it's not a very good player but at least you know whether the problem could be. You can also PM me the file, and I can test it for you. |
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Post by harmandus on Dec 1, 2021 18:25:24 GMT
Hello. Has anybody here tried to improve the drum sound from Queen's debut album using Moses a.i. to isolate the drums?
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Post by Dry Paint Dealer Undr on Dec 1, 2021 18:33:06 GMT
Hello. Has anybody here tried to improve the drum sound from Queen's debut album using Moses a.i. to isolate the drums? I would also like to see someone try that but, there is a better AI for drum isolation (Demucs V3) that they should probably try it with instead. |
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DasTarD
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Post by DasTarD on Dec 1, 2021 18:41:28 GMT
Hello. Has anybody here tried to improve the drum sound from Queen's debut album using Moses a.i. to isolate the drums? I have done that but using Moses a.i. doesn't give a 'perfect' drumsound, it's just the frequency of the drums, but they sound like crap, there is nothing to improve there. But maybe I am doing it all wrong and someone can correct me :-) Maybe cmi can explain it better then me  |
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Post by Dry Paint Dealer Undr on Dec 1, 2021 18:50:31 GMT
Hello. Has anybody here tried to improve the drum sound from Queen's debut album using Moses a.i. to isolate the drums? I have done that but using Moses a.i. doesn't give a 'perfect' drumsound, it's just the frequency of the drums, but they sound like crap, there is nothing to improve there. But maybe I am doing it all wrong and someone can correct me :-) Maybe cmi can explain it better then me Maybe try it with Demucs, since V3 came out it has had the best drum isolation I have heard to date. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Dec 1, 2021 19:34:24 GMT
Given they've said they don't like it (or, at least, Roger has), I'm surprised QPL haven't looked at improving the drum sound themselves, by way of a remix? Might be something nice for the 50th Anniversary (of QI), but of course, it would require some work so it's unlikely to happen.
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dane
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Post by dane on Dec 6, 2021 14:17:03 GMT
Peter Jackson has talked about remixing audio for the 'Get Back' documentary. And explained that his team at Weta Digital has majorly improved the existing demixing AI software that is out there to isolate (talking) vocals from heavy guitar and other included noises from mono recordings. So the technology is (Almost) there to demix analog mono or stereo sources and remix them to a better standard.. given time and resources. The future of vault material being 'up to standards' for release is getting closer by the day. Only needs someone to convince QPL to invest  |
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Golden Salmon
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Post by Golden Salmon on Dec 6, 2021 14:48:52 GMT
Only needs someone to convince QPL to invest "Please explain how this AI contraption can help us churn out more Greatest Hits editions." |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Dec 6, 2021 15:16:09 GMT
Only needs someone to convince QPL to invest "Please explain how this AI contraption can help us churn out more Greatest Hits editions." Lol. |
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Dec 6, 2021 16:15:38 GMT
Only needs someone to convince QPL to invest "Please explain how this AI contraption can help us churn out more Greatest Hits editions."
2023 - Queen: Greatest Acapella Hits |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Dec 6, 2021 17:03:20 GMT
"Please explain how this AI contraption can help us churn out more Greatest Hits editions."
2023 - Queen: Greatest Acapella HitsOh don't, lol! |
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Raf
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Post by Raf on Dec 6, 2021 21:31:49 GMT
"Please explain how this AI contraption can help us churn out more Greatest Hits editions."
2023 - Queen: Greatest Acapella HitsI wouldn't put it beyond them to just "remix" the whole thing using AI and resell it under some lame banner like "Robot Series" (with a Frank stamp on the cover!) and make a huge fuss on their site about how it sounds better than ever thanks to modern AI algorithms. And it'll just be the same songs as always with a little more bass here or a little more treble there, which most people won't even notice on their cheap earbuds. |
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Raf
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Post by Raf on Dec 6, 2021 21:35:50 GMT
Given they've said they don't like it (or, at least, Roger has), I'm surprised QPL haven't looked at improving the drum sound themselves, by way of a remix? Might be something nice for the 50th Anniversary (of QI), but of course, it would require some work so it's unlikely to happen. Question for the experts here: is it possible to really bring those drums back to life from the original tapes simply remixing/remastering and/or doing some digital processing on the recorded tracks (in a way that sounds natural)? I've always assumed Queen I and Jazz's weak drum sounds came from the way they were recorded, which should be difficult to properly fix using the master tracks. But I don't understand much about recording (especially acoustic instruments), so maybe I'm just talking nonsense here. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Dec 6, 2021 22:09:27 GMT
Given they've said they don't like it (or, at least, Roger has), I'm surprised QPL haven't looked at improving the drum sound themselves, by way of a remix? Might be something nice for the 50th Anniversary (of QI), but of course, it would require some work so it's unlikely to happen. Question for the experts here: is it possible to really bring those drums back to life from the original tapes simply remixing/remastering and/or doing some digital processing on the recorded tracks (in a way that sounds natural)? I've always assumed Queen I and Jazz's weak drum sounds came from the way they were recorded, which should be difficult to properly fix using the master tracks. But I don't understand much about recording (especially acoustic instruments), so maybe I'm just talking nonsense here. I think there's things they could do to make the drums stand out a little more, if only by EQ tweaking (the drums on some of QI and most of QII sound like he's playing through cushions), assuming they have the clean multi-tracks, but I think they'd need to add some effects digitally for them to sound significantly better. I've not heard any of this AI stuff yet, so not sure how good the separation is. With regards Jazz, I've tried to improve the drums on the stems of FBG, and it's a bit like trying to polish a turd - they really are that awful. |
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DasTarD
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Post by DasTarD on Dec 6, 2021 23:15:27 GMT
I have tried the same with DSMN, no succes, there is nothing there, so making something out of nothing is for me impossible :-D
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Post by aronystad on Dec 8, 2021 17:54:04 GMT
The result was pretty clean not perfect but clean I hope one day I can insert the file into the AI itself not Google Drive. I can say that this is pretty good! A bit of a late response, but you can. You can simply not click "mount to drive" and instead upload the files to the "tracks" folder. You can also download the non-google colab version from github, but that's slightly outdated at the moment. |
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Post by aronystad on Dec 8, 2021 17:56:33 GMT
Also, is it possible to make it sound less "muddy" (or whatever word describes it best) using something like audacity? I have messed around with EQ, and it did make it a little bit better, but it still sounds extremely "muddy".
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Egietje
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Post by Egietje on Dec 20, 2021 17:52:35 GMT
You can also download the non-google colab version from github, but that's slightly outdated at the moment. Actually, you can download the up to date version, it just doesn't come with a GUI. I could create another small walkthrough for it if I have time and people want it |
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Golden Salmon
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Post by Golden Salmon on Apr 10, 2022 9:14:08 GMT
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Post by mercurialfreddie on Apr 10, 2022 9:45:10 GMT
I have tried the same with DSMN, no succes, there is nothing there, so making something out of nothing is for me impossible :-D If they were able to polish the drums for the remaster of Rock in Rio Blues (2011) then Jazz is possible IMHO. It all comes down to the extent they're willing to go to. Maybe getting back to the demos from the Jazz recording session and look around the way the drums had been recorded and their sound "produced" -> This would be going the "purist" route as we would be hearing 1978 Roger on the new mix. The alternative is to do what hey have done with DSMN for the Bohemian Rhapsody movie -> remix whole track, record new instrumental tracks but then we won't be getting the original takes or tracks or samples from the 1978 recording sessions. What do you guys think about it ? |
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Apr 10, 2022 13:18:17 GMT
Bicycle Race and Fat bottomed girls on 5.1 remix from DVD sounded great, especially the drums on Bicycle race.
Same goes for DSMN.
Listening the stereo mix from the GH DVD 2001, again there is an improvement compare to any other stereo format cd, digital and vinyl.
So there is potential for better sound if they really want it.
Queen I, II, FG OST, TM and Innuendo all need a new stereo mix. However the Miracle and Innuendo on mono sound very good.
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Raf
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Post by Raf on Apr 11, 2022 17:24:55 GMT
I have tried the same with DSMN, no succes, there is nothing there, so making something out of nothing is for me impossible :-D If they were able to polish the drums for the remaster of Rock in Rio Blues (2011) then Jazz is possible IMHO. It all comes down to the extent they're willing to go to. Maybe getting back to the demos from the Jazz recording session and look around the way the drums had been recorded and their sound "produced" -> This would be going the "purist" route as we would be hearing 1978 Roger on the new mix. The alternative is to do what hey have done with DSMN for the Bohemian Rhapsody movie -> remix whole track, record new instrumental tracks but then we won't be getting the original takes or tracks or samples from the 1978 recording sessions. What do you guys think about it ? I personally would be okay with it as long as it's a bonus disc or something. I'd probably listen to a newer version much more often than the original version, and I guess most casual listeners either wouldn't notice the difference or would prefer to stick with the new version too. But it'd be criminal to replace the original altogether and make the original unavailable like George Lucas butchering Star Wars over and over and never releasing the original versions on newer media. |
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Apr 12, 2022 11:20:08 GMT
Regarding the many complaints about the drum-sound on Jazz (and Queen I and Queen II)...has it ever occurred to you that your complaints are themselves biased by a current trend for full-bodied, up-front drum sounds that is unlike popular music in every other period of recorded popular music? 'Fixing' the drum sound to fit present tastes is a recipe for embarrassment down the road, IMHO. Imagine yourself back in 1987 for a moment. The taste of the day was for over-production and heavy-handed use of (modulation) effects. The sparse, fairly 'clean' sound of many late '70s records was considered old-fashioned and embarrassing. Back then, there were people calling for older records to sound more 'modern', too. Now imagine what Jazz totally changed to fit the taste of 1987 would sound like. Twenty years from now, that's how Jazz made to fit current tastes will sound.
There are plenty of things I hate about music production in pretty much every era - but those limitations are part of the overall character of the music. Jazz with full-bodied drums isn't Jazz, it's a ret-con. 1940s and 1950s recordings have lousy bass response - but if we were to 'fix', say, Frank Sinatra records to have a big bass sound, the music would lose its character entirely. The music was built around those limitations. The songs and the limitations really can't be separated.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Apr 12, 2022 13:03:07 GMT
Regarding the many complaints about the drum-sound on Jazz (and Queen I and Queen II)...has it ever occurred to you that your complaints are themselves biased by a current trend for full-bodied, up-front drum sounds that is unlike popular music in every other period of recorded popular music? 'Fixing' the drum sound to fit present tastes is a recipe for embarrassment down the road, IMHO. Imagine yourself back in 1987 for a moment. The taste of the day was for over-production and heavy-handed use of (modulation) effects. The sparse, fairly 'clean' sound of many late '70s records was considered old-fashioned and embarrassing. Back then, there were people calling for older records to sound more 'modern', too. Now imagine what Jazz totally changed to fit the taste of 1987 would sound like. Twenty years from now, that's how Jazz made to fit current tastes will sound. There are plenty of things I hate about music production in pretty much every era - but those limitations are part of the overall character of the music. Jazz with full-bodied drums isn't Jazz, it's a ret-con. 1940s and 1950s recordings have lousy bass response - but if we were to 'fix', say, Frank Sinatra records to have a big bass sound, the music would lose its character entirely. The music was built around those limitations. The songs and the limitations really can't be separated. That's a fair point, but would you not agree that the DSMN... Revisited remix from the movie, has a better drum sound than the original? That's not to say that the originals should be consigned to the scrap heap, but most things benefit from a bit of spit and polish here and there. I do feel the drums on Jazz were poorly recorded / produced. Why does it have such a vastly different drum sound to the two albums either side if it? On both NOTW snd The Game, the drum sound was perfect to my ears. I think Genesis made a mistake in reissuing all their albums with highly compressed remixes as replacements of the originals, but I certainly feel there's room for both original and updated versions in this world. |
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Apr 12, 2022 13:09:29 GMT
Regarding the many complaints about the drum-sound on Jazz (and Queen I and Queen II)...has it ever occurred to you that your complaints are themselves biased by a current trend for full-bodied, up-front drum sounds that is unlike popular music in every other period of recorded popular music? 'Fixing' the drum sound to fit present tastes is a recipe for embarrassment down the road, IMHO. Imagine yourself back in 1987 for a moment. The taste of the day was for over-production and heavy-handed use of (modulation) effects. The sparse, fairly 'clean' sound of many late '70s records was considered old-fashioned and embarrassing. Back then, there were people calling for older records to sound more 'modern', too. Now imagine what Jazz totally changed to fit the taste of 1987 would sound like. Twenty years from now, that's how Jazz made to fit current tastes will sound. There are plenty of things I hate about music production in pretty much every era - but those limitations are part of the overall character of the music. Jazz with full-bodied drums isn't Jazz, it's a ret-con. 1940s and 1950s recordings have lousy bass response - but if we were to 'fix', say, Frank Sinatra records to have a big bass sound, the music would lose its character entirely. The music was built around those limitations. The songs and the limitations really can't be separated. You have a very good point, but on the other hand too much love will kill you is one of the songs that benefit from whatever treatment they did, it is the same mix with 1989, but sounds great. The DVD GH, The Game DVD audio etc all have new stereo mix which sound great and keep the original character. Love kills 2019-2020 sounds better and keeps its character. Teo Torriate 2005 is another good example. There are things in the productions due to their limitations are still buried, if they had better technology they could be presented. There is a way to improve albums like the Jazz or The Miracle to sound good not like a band rehearsal in garage (jazz), without losing the character of the original idea. |
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