Frank
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Post by Frank on Dec 30, 2020 12:53:26 GMT
This is just incredible. I've always wondered just how well the band could read and write using music notation. Brian knew more than I thought he did.
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Post by 85guild on Dec 30, 2020 21:43:57 GMT
Can anyone give any insight to the numbers alongside some of the lyrics?
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pg
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Post by pg on Jan 14, 2021 18:46:12 GMT
Kya is v2 v3 v4 as in verse 2,3,4.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Jan 15, 2021 0:07:56 GMT
Kya is v2 v3 v4 as in verse 2,3,4. Yep, you're right.
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Post by 85guild on Jan 16, 2021 0:49:47 GMT
Thank you, the v2-3-4 were easy to decipher but in Calling All Girls there are 16, 19 and 12 listed beside the words. in Dreamer's Ball, it looks like running time to the left of lyrics so that's the time of the song when the lyrics come in. Could be for timekeeping from Brian's demo? But fun it has numbers from 23 to 224 and have no idea as it's not which bar they are on so the mystery continues
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Post by mkstewartesq on Jan 16, 2021 4:53:53 GMT
Can anyone give any insight to the numbers alongside some of the lyrics? Thank you, the v2-3-4 were easy to decipher but in Calling All Girls there are 16, 19 and 12 listed beside the words. in Dreamer's Ball, it looks like running time to the left of lyrics so that's the time of the song when the lyrics come in. Could be for timekeeping from Brian's demo? But fun it has numbers from 23 to 224 and have no idea as it's not which bar they are on so the mystery continues Looking at the ones on the preceding page, I had first thought that, for example, on “Fight From The Inside”, The numbers that ascended steadily upward indicated the bars in the song in which each lyrical line fell, and maybe they do. But especially since it is noted that some of these were found in the original tape boxes – meaning that they were likely marked up during the mixing process, I think a lot of these where you see repetitions of numbers that are less than 24 (i.e., 19 by two lines in a row, then 23 after the next line, and then 21 after the line after that ) indicate tracks on the tape - specifically, for comping a master vocal performance out of several takes that were each recorded on separate tracks. In other words, I think the numbers were used by the band or the engineer to indicate which tracks had the best take of a given line (or even some cases, specific words in a line) as a guide for creating the final vocal track during the mixed down. It makes sense, if we are talking about 24 or 48 tracks, that the first 15 or so would be taken up by the live performance and instrument overdubs, with the numerous vocal takes being done on the higher numbered tracks, which are then comped together out of the best parts of each one to create the final vocal performances. Just a guess, but I think it that’s with why these lyric sheets would be marked up with these numbers and packed away in the tape boxes - not only because they were used in the mixing sessions but also as a record for re-creating the performance if something happened to the master that was created during the mixing session. M
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Post by 85guild on Jan 16, 2021 18:46:38 GMT
Thank you, that is an excellent guess and most likely makes sense. I was think it was bars, some kind of cymbal notation for Roger's stuff, et. But for the higher numbers that dos seem likely that it would be a take of a certain vocal or performance line. Much appreciated!
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 14, 2021 2:06:35 GMT
Finally came across this thread - what a fantastic journey it was. Great to see how collaborative a lot of their work was, contrary to the oft-told tale that the person credited for the song wrote every word of it. It sounds like the person who first conceived of the song got the credit, and from there it would often be a team effort. And it wasn't just Freddie who was the key co-collaborator - we see John chiming in with a few lines for Calling All Girls. To be a fly on the wall for any of these sessions...
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 14, 2021 3:08:13 GMT
Cool Cat - "Freddie's lyrics for one of the songs he co-wrote with John. Again written on hotel notepaper, this time the Palace Hotel in Montreux."
That should date its genesis to July 1981, when they were working on Under Pressure. That could make it the second earliest Hot Space track to be conceived.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 14, 2021 4:18:58 GMT
From the Roger Taylor website collection - an early draft of The Miracle, but with a far more sarcastic bent:
Open hearted surgery Mozart playing on your CD While rockets fly to spy on Mars New friendship for the superpowers It's a miracle
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 14, 2021 5:04:32 GMT
Looking at the ones on the preceding page, I had first thought that, for example, on “Fight From The Inside”, The numbers that ascended steadily upward indicated the bars in the song in which each lyrical line fell, and maybe they do. But especially since it is noted that some of these were found in the original tape boxes – meaning that they were likely marked up during the mixing process, I think a lot of these where you see repetitions of numbers that are less than 24 (i.e., 19 by two lines in a row, then 23 after the next line, and then 21 after the line after that ) indicate tracks on the tape - specifically, for comping a master vocal performance out of several takes that were each recorded on separate tracks. In other words, I think the numbers were used by the band or the engineer to indicate which tracks had the best take of a given line (or even some cases, specific words in a line) as a guide for creating the final vocal track during the mixed down. It makes sense, if we are talking about 24 or 48 tracks, that the first 15 or so would be taken up by the live performance and instrument overdubs, with the numerous vocal takes being done on the higher numbered tracks, which are then comped together out of the best parts of each one to create the final vocal performances. Just a guess, but I think it that’s with why these lyric sheets would be marked up with these numbers and packed away in the tape boxes - not only because they were used in the mixing sessions but also as a record for re-creating the performance if something happened to the master that was created during the mixing session. Good theory, which may well have come into play at some point - but it doesn't account for the numbers that go as high as 246 on this one. I plead complete ignorance here:
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georg
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Post by georg on Feb 14, 2021 16:51:53 GMT
Just a theory/speculation on my part, but is it seconds? (246 seconds = 4.1 minutes, which is longer than 'Fun It' is, but maybe it was edited down?)
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Feb 14, 2021 17:28:35 GMT
To make a further case against measures, the first line is a four bar phrase....so m. 23 to m. 38 is the first phrase? I don't think so. I have to agree with Georg that seconds makes more sense.
And to just throw it out there, I counted the number of beats until the vocals kick in. It was 23. Soooo? It's a pretty inefficient way to mark up your lyric page, if you ask me, but maybe? It gets less accurate as it progresses, so probably not.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 15, 2021 2:09:53 GMT
Just a theory/speculation on my part, but is it seconds? (246 seconds = 4.1 minutes, which is longer than 'Fun It' is, but maybe it was edited down?) It can't be seconds - the "time" between lines is far too great. Maybe it's the counter on a tape machine?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 8:14:09 GMT
That should date its genesis to July 1981, when they were working on Under Pressure. That could make it the second earliest Hot Space track to be conceived. Not really: sessions were due to begin in June at Musicland, then they moved to Mountain (around July, as you say, or perhaps August), and that's when Bowie visited them. So they most likely had at least a few ideas before they did the jam session which led to 'Feel Like' --> 'People on Streets' --> 'Under Pressure'. There's absolutely nothing to suggest he went to the studios on the first day of the sessions, and a lot to suggest that wasn't the case at all. A good question would be which songs could have predated the Bowie collaboration in terms of conception & recording. Promane's PhD dissertation features Reinhold Mack specifying they started most of the second side in Montreux ('Life Is Real' was the only one he didn't mention), which means 'Put Out the Fire', 'Calling All Girls' and 'Las Palabras de Amor' could, in different combinations (one of them, two of them, all of them, none of them) have been written and partially recorded before 'Pressure', not to mention stuff such as 'There Must Be More to Life Than This' and things that didn't make the cut. -------- As for the '19+20' stuff: I agree those are tracks: '19+20' would mean they're double-tracked and taken from those two. Note that the larger numbers ('246' or whatever) were jotted down just before each line, whereas the '19+20' ones were penned in a different category, so to speak. I do agree that was probably seconds or at least some sort of info on the tape, as they gradually increased as the song went on.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 15, 2021 8:30:14 GMT
That should date its genesis to July 1981, when they were working on Under Pressure. That could make it the second earliest Hot Space track to be conceived. Not really: sessions were due to begin in June at Musicland, then they moved to Mountain (around July, as you say, or perhaps August), and that's when Bowie visited them. News to me ! So indeed, considering lyrics were usually the last thing Mercury worked on, the song could've been worked on in June.
The Mountain sessions were definitely in July - many sources state that, including this one that's extremely diligent in detail:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 9:03:38 GMT
That website credits Frederick for piano and organ when there's absolutely no indication he played either; it also claims John played every instrument on 'Cool Cat', another one of those urban myths; it also incorrectly claims 'Feels Like' precedes David Bowie's involvement (even though it had him on piano - his speaking voice can be heard at some point IIRC) and, again incorrectly, credits Roger for a lot of the creative input.
It doesn't, moreover, provide any source whatsoever for the 'July' claim and, considering its other errors, I'm not even a tiny bit convinced we should take it at face value.
Keep in mind that 'multiple sources' often copy from each other, so both accurate details and fake news are rapidly spread that way and there's no real distinction about which is which unless (until) we scrutinise each one and see if it's supported by evidence. Otherwise, it's just like the 'Everett played "Bohemian Rhapsody" fourteen times over his weekend programme' (he didn't), 'that song's got 180 vocal overdubs' (it doesn't), and so many other myths.
It could've been July, indeed, but it could've just as easily been August, or even early September (they could've worked on it on, say, the 3rd or 4th of September, and then a week later completed it in Manhattan). Until we've got evidence, all of those options are just as likely, and it'd be equally risky and irresponsible to assume any of them to be correct.
----
Edit: I just checked the diary (spring 1982 issue of the Fan Club magazine) and it's vague and probably even more inaccurate: it claims they began a new studio album in Montreux in June, and then for July/August it just says 'Work on the new album' (it doesn't specify if that's in Switzerland, West Germany or even the USA).
That diary keeps referring to Mexico as part of South America (to put it in perspective: the distance between the southernmost point in Mexico and the northernmost point in South America is more or less the distance between England and North Macedonia!) and misspells the capital of Venezuela as 'Caracus'. I know, I know... people can suck at geography and still get historical facts right, but that still says a lot about their proof-reading and fact-checking!
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Feb 15, 2021 9:37:12 GMT
Just a theory/speculation on my part, but is it seconds? (246 seconds = 4.1 minutes, which is longer than 'Fun It' is, but maybe it was edited down?) It can't be seconds - the "time" between lines is far too great. Maybe it's the counter on a tape machine?
I'm thinking this is the beats in the song relative to the beginning of each line. If we line up the very first "Everybody" at 23bpm marker we get: Everybody = 23 Everybody = 38 Now = 52 Can't = 66 Get = 73 Can't = 81 You're = 88 Fun It plays at 113bpm, so this seems to bear out. there may have been some later revisions/tweaks to the recording of the song, but the above is pretty close enough for me.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 16, 2021 5:05:23 GMT
Has anyone got higher resolution copies of these two ?
The Show Must Go On
Too Much Love Will Kill You
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 16, 2021 6:00:18 GMT
Radio Ga Ga - "A rare and intriguing telex from Queen's American record company, Capitol, in October 1983, to the band's Manager Jim Beach. Recently uncovered from the archive in a pile of oddments destined for the shredder!"
I can't believe they let this out. But what great insight into outside interference in the creative process.
They eventually reached a compromise, but it looks like the label won - the lyric is not nearly as scathing as Roger wanted it to be. All proof of how the music industry had officially become the music business by then.
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Mustapha Ibrahim
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Post by Mustapha Ibrahim on Feb 16, 2021 19:09:25 GMT
Has anyone got higher resolution copies of these two ?
The Show Must Go On
I found a higher res. copy for this one:
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Feb 16, 2021 22:59:27 GMT
Has anyone got higher resolution copies of these two ?
Too Much Love Will Kill You
I think this one is high quality:
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 17, 2021 4:44:01 GMT
Thanks guys. I love this place.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 17, 2021 5:45:42 GMT
Keep Yourself Alive - "Brian's original handwritten lyrics for 'Keep Yourself Alive". Seen here for the very first time, they were among a pile of similar treasures unearthed by Queen's archivist in 2014 in a dusty cabinet in Brian's house - forgotten for over 40 years". This is just incredible. I've always wondered just how well the band could read and write using music notation. Brian knew more than I thought he did. We can date this one to 1971 at the latest because it's the original lyrics and melody heard on the De Lane Lea demo.
Seeing this is about as good as hearing that version for the first time.
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Chinwonder2
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Post by Chinwonder2 on Feb 25, 2021 17:47:21 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 18:59:45 GMT
Thanks!
Your scanner's certainly way better than mine.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Feb 26, 2021 8:05:27 GMT
I don't think this has been shared on here yet, these are some of the lyrics in I Want It All:
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Feb 26, 2021 8:14:39 GMT
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Feb 26, 2021 13:00:40 GMT
I've got the first page of Radio Ga Ga from somewhere online. I think it's slightly higher quality but it's down to preference.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Feb 26, 2021 13:16:27 GMT
I think this is slightly higher quality versions of Fat Bottomed Girls:
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