Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Jun 24, 2022 11:37:52 GMT
I've always considered The Works to be the first 'proper' follow up to The Game, mainly because I don't personally like Flash Gordon or Hot Space as albums.
But, what if neither FG or HS had been made, and they'd gone straight from The Game to The Works? Would the band's trajectory have changed at all? I think we know that Hot Space damaged them in the American market, so would The Works, as a follow up to The Game have strengthened their American following and would that have had any overall effect?
Of the songs that would then be 'missing', perhaps they still might have bumped into Bowie somewhere and made Under Pressure, which could have been a stand alone single with Las Palabras De Amor as the B side.
They lost me with FG and HS, and at the time, I worried that they'd never make another proper 'Queen' album. The Works brought me back and now I consider it as one of their better, most complete albums. I wouldn't miss FG and HS at all if they never existed.
Obviously this is all retrospective speculation, but I think it might be interesting none the less.
Discuss?
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Post by 85guild on Jun 24, 2022 13:09:10 GMT
I'm not sure it's that simple, my Lordship Obviously they were stinging from the flop of HS, and wanted to get closer to their roots on The Works, but I've always found it to be the album from a band that were afraid of losing their place in the world, so they played both sides of the fence. A few songs with current technology like Radio Gaga and Machines to keep relevant, rehashes aplenty with Tear it up and Man on the Prowl reminding fans of past successes while revisiting WWRY and CLTCL (and adding nothing in the process), and mistakenly thinking Joe Jackson was dead and that he wouldn't notice that Passing the Open Windows was a total stylistic rip off off Stepping Out . I just found it to be uninspired and probably the lowest point in the catalogue to date, yet they still produced 2 songs that are still relatively popular today (GaGa and Break Free) while Hammer to Fall still is known. For some bands that would be their greatest album, but the creative standard set from Queen until NOTW, and even Jazz made it seem to me like this was a tired band trying to find their way.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Jun 24, 2022 13:49:37 GMT
I'm not sure it's that simple, my Lordship and mistakenly thinking Joe Jackson was dead and that he wouldn't notice that Passing the Open Windows was a total stylistic rip off off Stepping Out . glad someone else agrees with me on this one.
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Post by macduff77 on Jun 24, 2022 15:14:52 GMT
A 4 year hiatus would be a first for Queen, so I'd assume that would have had an impact on The Works, in terms of content and direction. Unless there was a new album in-between (say 1982, like HS) with work on leftover tracks from The Game, ideas from HS and some solo work, then the jump from The Game to The Works would include some of these ideas/tracks, IMO. So, basically I feel like The Works would have been a whole different type of album.
But I think the biggest impact would have been the continued touring of North America in 1984. If Queen had returned with "The Works" as the next album and it sold better than it did, backed by the fans that left after Hot Space, then one could expect Queen would have returned to NA to tour the album. I do recall reading somewhere that Capital Records were having some issues in 1984 with getting artists played on air, which I think had a direct impact on Queen sales, so not sure if that would have still been an issue?
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Post by mkstewartesq on Jun 24, 2022 17:56:50 GMT
Jumping straight from The Game to The Works might have helped them worldwide but only very little, at all, in the US. Sure, there would have been some anticipation for the new album if their most recent previous success was Another One Bites the Dust (that anticipation certainly helped buoy Hot Space in the US, at least initially.) But, speaking as a US fan deeply into Queen at that time, I can tell you that other aspects of their presentation would have nonetheless worked against them. The various videos (not just Break Free) were just a bit too extreme (especially in Freddie‘s carriage and mannerisms) for the Reagan era US market. Sure, you had bands like Culture Club, Duran Duran, Prince and so on pushing the envelope even further - but they had to benefit of both being “young “ bands and their stuff only really flew with the “younger“ audience - most of whom viewed Queen as an “old” band, sort of like “your father trying to pass as cool.” So I don’t think Queen would’ve been able to gain much traction. The fact that, IMHO, The Works was it real mixed bag as an album meant that demand for the songs on the radio wasn’t going to be able to overcome enough of the other headwinds the band faced in a market where being cool in the video was the main way to drive record sales.
Like I said, I was 16 when The Works came out, having gotten into Queen in 1980. And unfortunately, as far as I could tell, I was the ONLY Queen fan I knew and, as depressing as it sounds right now, most of my the people where I grew up in Florida at that time dismissed Queen as being simply too weird, too “gay”, or just too unhip generally (while, of course, the gay or androgynous overtones of all of the other bands I mentioned were no barrier to getting to the top of the charts).
When the single for “A Kind of Magic” came out in 1986, I played it for a musician friend of mine, noting how insanely catchy it was - and he very candidly and perceptively stated “yes, it’s a great song. But it really doesn’t matter if it’s the best song in the whole world – if the artist isn’t otherwise popular right now, it’s not going to get played and no one is going to hear that it is the best song in the whole world.”
M
edited to fix a few typos
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Jun 24, 2022 18:19:02 GMT
...and there's also the contradiction that when Queen were at their peak powers in the USA (76-78) the lead singer (said rock band) was cavorting and prancing around the stage in a leotard and ballet slippers. and yet, none of that seemed a step-too far for audience sensitivities? what a difference 4 years makes? go figure.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jun 24, 2022 18:48:34 GMT
Flash, I can understand that one. Hot Space however in my opinion is a fantastic album. I love the sound of it. I know I am in the minority, but it honestly is in my top 3 Queen albums.
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Post by mkstewartesq on Jun 24, 2022 18:51:51 GMT
...and there's also the contradiction that when Queen were at their peak powers in the USA (76-78) the lead singer (said rock band) was cavorting and prancing around the stage in a leotard and ballet slippers. and yet, none of that seemed a step-too far for audience sensitivities? what a difference 4 years makes? go figure. I think it can be easily chalked up to the difference between the US sensitivities when we had a more liberal president and government 1976 to 1980 and when we suddenly veered into an ultra conservative, sometimes downright homophobic president and government from November 1980 onward, which absolutely permeated US culture as a result. Queen weren’t the only flamboyant, gay-appearing performers who were big in the 70s and suddenly found themselves diminished from 1981 onward here in the US. I’m not only talking about groups like the Village People but even Bowie took a bit of a dive (Let’s Dance in 1983 certainly clicked because his videos were savvy, but Tonight and his subsequent records didn’t do anything, and even Let’s Dance was he decided to move away from his former androgyny). That flamboyance, as I said, certainly clicked still with the youth (because youth are usually inclined to go against the general conservatism of the times) - but that willingness to tolerate it they only seem to extend to younger musicians (Michael Jackson, Prince, Duran Duran, etc.). Like I said, my friends at the time seem to have no problem with Boy George or, if they were into hard rock, bands like Mötley Crüe and Twisted Sister in spandex and make up - but Freddie was somehow “too much”. Go figure.
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Post by mkstewartesq on Jun 24, 2022 19:08:03 GMT
Flash, I can understand that one. Hot Space however in my opinion is a fantastic album. I love the sound of it. I know I am in the minority, but it honestly is in my top 3 Queen albums. Agreed on Flash - but I think even the fans realized that was a slight detour, and Queen could’ve kept up their momentum without skipping a beat if they had released a strong new album sometime in 1981 rather than just Greatest Hits. You would think that Under Pressure would have been enough to tide people over as far as momentum but even then, at a time when MTV was taking off, the clip they released in the US didn’t even show the band - it was just a cobbling together of various stock footage. So that didn’t do much to keep the band in the minds of the new MTV generation. As far as Hot Space - and now I’m thinking of Roger’s later comments comparing it to the huge success of Thriller and how it was “six months ahead of its time” - it really wasn’t, and I think that’s a foolish assertion for him to make, at least to the extent that he was claiming that it might have had the same success as Thriller. Again, just speaking from the perspective of a teenage record buyer at that time (which I was), sure, Hot Space was like Thriller in that it had an emphasis on danceable music. But, when you compare it to Thriller, something about Hot Space was just “off”or “incomplete” to US ears. I cholk that up to the fact that the dance aspects of it were a bit more European in flavor than the straight up American Pop of Thriller (many of the dance songs like Staying Power were fairly sparse and heavily focused on a synthesized bass line, whereas Thriller’s songs used a wider variety of instrumentation and textures on each track and so could slot in much more easily among the other songs on the top 40.). The same could be said for Prnice – his arrangements on 1999 were, for the most part, fairly sparse – and other than the two songs that feature the fair amount of guitar (1999 and Little Red Corvette) he didn’t have much in the way of hits on that album but really blew out with Purple Rain when he switched over to using a full band..Not to mention that Hot Space was made by a bunch of white guys who were mainly known for rock hits, whereas Thriller was the work of a young singer who was already beloved by the public due to his previous group, solo albums and having grown up in the American public hearts, and had one of the greatest American producers (Quincy Jones) arranging the album. So the old US fans really didn’t know what to make of it, and the new US fans probably couldn’t latch onto the sound because it didn’t sound a whole lot like other US radio fodder at the time. As to why it didn’t do well in Europe - maybe a mix of older fans not knowing what to do with the new style, and the fact that maybe Queen weren’t a dance band and so they just didn’t do dance music, even in a more European style, very well. EDITING TO ADD - I am afraid that I have started dragging this thread a bit off topic from the question raised in the initial post, for which I apologize – so I’ll just go back to my own personal answer to the question posed which is “Hot Space didn’t help Queen any - but, at least in the US, I don’t think having The Game followed directly by The Works would have made much difference because US attitudes, tastes and perceptions had changed too much by 1984, and the material on The Works wasn’t so stunningly great to overcome that.”
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Jun 24, 2022 19:26:36 GMT
EDITING TO ADD - I am afraid that I have started dragging this thread a bit off topic from the question raised in the initial post, for which I apologize – so I’ll just go back to my own personal answer to the question posed which is “Hot Space didn’t help Queen any - but, at least in the US, I don’t think having The Game followed directly by The Works would have made much difference because US attitudes, tastes and perceptions had changed too much by 1984, and the material on The Works wasn’t so stunningly great to overcome that.” It's fine to go off on a tangent - it makes the discussion flow and become more interesting. 🙂 I was curious as to what you said about the Break Free video. So, was that considered "gay" at the time in America? To me, it was just four blokes dressed up rather hideously, but comedically, as women, and I wouldn't have categorised that as "gay", any more than a couple of ugly sisters in a pantomime. 😄 With regards Hot Space, I agree with what you said about the sound. I think, if it had been a fuller production, with proper instruments instead of all the synth stuff, it probably would have gone down a lot better. I'm not a fan of disco music in general, but I can recognise the production values of something like Thriller, which not only had great songs, but also sounded good. Queen could have produced a good pop / disco album without abandoning the 'band' sound, and I think that would have made HS a completely different beast.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Jun 24, 2022 20:14:08 GMT
EDITING TO ADD - I am afraid that I have started dragging this thread a bit off topic from the question raised in the initial post, for which I apologize – so I’ll just go back to my own personal answer to the question posed which is “Hot Space didn’t help Queen any - but, at least in the US, I don’t think having The Game followed directly by The Works would have made much difference because US attitudes, tastes and perceptions had changed too much by 1984, and the material on The Works wasn’t so stunningly great to overcome that.” It's fine to go off on a tangent - it makes the discussion flow and become more interesting. 🙂 I was curious as to what you said about the Break Free video. So, was that considered "gay" at the time in America? To me, it was just four blokes dressed up rather hideously, but comedically, as women, and I wouldn't have categorised that as "gay", any more than a couple of ugly sisters in a pantomime. 😄 With regards Hot Space, I agree with what you said about the sound. I think, if it had been a fuller production, with proper instruments instead of all the synth stuff, it probably would have gone down a lot better. I'm not a fan of disco music in general, but I can recognise the production values of something like Thriller, which not only had great songs, but also sounded good. Queen could have produced a good pop / disco album without abandoning the 'band' sound, and I think that would have made HS a completely different beast. One of the main reasons for losing US in mid 80s was Record industry payola, Radio Ga GA was heading for top 10,the album was raising when payola industry happened, almost many artist lost ircdisappeared from their previous charts positions. Second no Tour. It was planned but due to various reasons, never materialized. The long gap between April and August 1984, it was space for US tour.
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Post by mkstewartesq on Jun 24, 2022 20:24:49 GMT
I was curious as to what you said about the Break Free video. So, was that considered "gay" at the time in America? To me, it was just four blokes dressed up rather hideously, but comedically, as women, and I wouldn't have categorised that as "gay", any more than a couple of ugly sisters in a pantomime. 😄 The real perceived "sin" of that video in the U.S. was the cross-dressing which, yes, was equated with transvestitism, which was equated with "gay" at the time (or with "perversion", on the presumption that cross-dressing indicated getting some sexual thrill out of dressing like a woman). With the rise of conservatism in the 1980s also came a resurgence in religious interests taking hold in government and culture (we have not made much progress on fixing that to date). We had numerous hate crimes where cross-dressing men were brutalized by homophobes. The reason it resulted in a backlash was largely because, for whatever reason, the video didn't come off as "clearly a joke" to American audiences - not just because we didn't get Coronation Street reference but also because there wasn't anything in the video that clearly indicated, to U.S. sensibilities, that the band were putting everyone on. U.S. media had a history of men dressing as women in comedies - the film Some Like It Hot, Milton Berle, Harvey Korman on The Carol Burnett Show, even the show Bosom Buddies with Tom Hanks - but only seemed comfortable with it where it was clearly labelled as a comedy, and the audience had some reassurance that the men were "manly men just having a laugh". So I think a lot of people in the U.S. were unsure if the video was intended to be offensive to religious sensibilities (hence the banning by MTV) or instead intended as a "coming out" statement (which didn't go down well with the "hell yeah RAWK AND ROLL!" fans - they had seen Freddie being flamboyant ever since 1974, but they could continue to deny it so long as he didn't actually seem to 'come out".)
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Post by mkstewartesq on Jun 24, 2022 20:49:16 GMT
I was curious as to what you said about the Break Free video. So, was that considered "gay" at the time in America? To me, it was just four blokes dressed up rather hideously, but comedically, as women, and I wouldn't have categorised that as "gay", any more than a couple of ugly sisters in a pantomime. 😄 The real perceived "sin" of that video in the U.S. was the cross-dressing which, yes, was equated with transvestitism, which was equated with "gay" at the time (or with "perversion", on the presumption that cross-dressing indicated getting some sexual thrill out of dressing like a woman). With the rise of conservatism in the 1980s also came a resurgence in religious interests taking hold in government and culture (we have not made much progress on fixing that to date). We had numerous hate crimes where cross-dressing men were brutalized by homophobes. The reason it resulted in a backlash was largely because, for whatever reason, the video didn't come off as "clearly a joke" to American audiences - not just because we didn't get Coronation Street reference but also because there wasn't anything in the video that clearly indicated, to U.S. sensibilities, that the band were putting everyone on. U.S. media had a history of men dressing as women in comedies - the film Some Like It Hot, Milton Berle, Harvey Korman on The Carol Burnett Show, even the show Bosom Buddies with Tom Hanks - but only seemed comfortable with it where it was clearly labelled as a comedy, and the audience had some reassurance that the men were "manly men just having a laugh". So I think a lot of people in the U.S. were unsure if the video was intended to be offensive to religious sensibilities (hence the banning by MTV) or instead intended as a "coming out" statement (which didn't go down well with the "hell yeah RAWK AND ROLL!" fans - they had seen Freddie being flamboyant ever since 1974, but they could continue to deny it so long as he didn't actually seem to 'come out".) I will add to this, since my thesis is that things like the videos they made for The Works would have hobbled them a bit in the U.S. even if Hot Space didn't exist - while the "Radio Ga-Ga" video was a strong start, the "It's a Hard Life" video suffered from similar "issues" to "Break free" in U.S. eyes, especially with Freddie's long wig. We didn't get the artistic references, and so it was "another video from this album where Freddie sort of seems to be telling us he is a woman. This appears to be a trend." By the time they returned to showing "normal" Queen in the Hammer to Fall video, it was a bit late in the game (no pun intended) to win back those who may have been turned off by the prior videos.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Jun 24, 2022 21:02:53 GMT
The real perceived "sin" of that video in the U.S. was the cross-dressing which, yes, was equated with transvestitism, which was equated with "gay" at the time (or with "perversion", on the presumption that cross-dressing indicated getting some sexual thrill out of dressing like a woman). With the rise of conservatism in the 1980s also came a resurgence in religious interests taking hold in government and culture (we have not made much progress on fixing that to date). We had numerous hate crimes where cross-dressing men were brutalized by homophobes. The reason it resulted in a backlash was largely because, for whatever reason, the video didn't come off as "clearly a joke" to American audiences - not just because we didn't get Coronation Street reference but also because there wasn't anything in the video that clearly indicated, to U.S. sensibilities, that the band were putting everyone on. U.S. media had a history of men dressing as women in comedies - the film Some Like It Hot, Milton Berle, Harvey Korman on The Carol Burnett Show, even the show Bosom Buddies with Tom Hanks - but only seemed comfortable with it where it was clearly labelled as a comedy, and the audience had some reassurance that the men were "manly men just having a laugh". So I think a lot of people in the U.S. were unsure if the video was intended to be offensive to religious sensibilities (hence the banning by MTV) or instead intended as a "coming out" statement (which didn't go down well with the "hell yeah RAWK AND ROLL!" fans - they had seen Freddie being flamboyant ever since 1974, but they could continue to deny it so long as he didn't actually seem to 'come out".) I will add to this, since my thesis is that things like the videos they made for The Works would have hobbled them a bit in the U.S. even if Hot Space didn't exist - while the "Radio Ga-Ga" video was a strong start, the "It's a Hard Life" video suffered from similar "issues" to "Break free" in U.S. eyes, especially with Freddie's long wig. We didn't get the artistic references, and so it was "another video from this album where Freddie sort of seems to be telling us he is a woman. This appears to be a trend." By the time they returned to showing "normal" Queen in the Hammer to Fall video, it was a bit late in the game (no pun intended) to win back those who may have been turned off by the prior videos. Apparently the rest of the band hated the Hard Life video. It certainly didn't have the humourous quality of Break Free. I think in one of the documentaries, Roger said Freddie looked like a giant prawn. 😄
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Post by mkstewartesq on Jun 24, 2022 21:10:54 GMT
Apparently the rest of the band hated the Hard Life video. It certainly didn't have the humourous quality of Break Free. I think in one of the documentaries, Roger said Freddie looked like a giant prawn. 😄 Even better -I believe his exact quote was “a giant, amorous prawn.”
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Jun 24, 2022 21:25:20 GMT
Hot Space however in my opinion is a fantastic album. I love the sound of it. I know I am in the minority, but it honestly is in my top 3 Queen albums. Steve i think you've maybe missed the point of the discussion. it's not about personal/individual taste/liking (or otherwise) for either album. it's about taking an objective look at the palpable effect and irredeemable impact on the fanbase as as a whole. I doubt very much that FG had any real affect one way or the other - as everyone knew what it was. HS (on the other hand) created sisemic reputational damage (Stateside) that never really healed until after Freddie was gone.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jun 24, 2022 22:35:53 GMT
Hot Space however in my opinion is a fantastic album. I love the sound of it. I know I am in the minority, but it honestly is in my top 3 Queen albums. Steve i think you've maybe missed the point of the discussion. it's not about personal/individual taste/liking (or otherwise) for either album. it's about taking an objective look at the palpable effect and irredeemable impact on the fanbase as as a whole. I doubt very much that FG had any real affect one way or the other - as everyone knew what it was. HS (on the other hand) created sisemic reputational damage (Stateside) that never really healed until after Freddie was gone. I understood mate. Just couldn't believe fans reaction to the album. It was a concept record.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Jun 24, 2022 23:22:11 GMT
Steve i think you've maybe missed the point of the discussion. it's not about personal/individual taste/liking (or otherwise) for either album. it's about taking an objective look at the palpable effect and irredeemable impact on the fanbase as as a whole. I doubt very much that FG had any real affect one way or the other - as everyone knew what it was. HS (on the other hand) created sisemic reputational damage (Stateside) that never really healed until after Freddie was gone. I understood mate. Just couldn't believe fans reaction to the album. It was a concept record. Hot Space was a concept record? What was the concept? To destroy their own careers in the States? Or did you mean Flash Gordon, which I think is probably, technically, a soundtrack album. A concept album, as I understand it, is one that follows a theme throughout, but one of the artist's own creation. FG was created to accompany a film - I think there's a difference, but I could be wrong, and frequently am.
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Post by mkstewartesq on Jun 25, 2022 0:14:33 GMT
I understood mate. Just couldn't believe fans reaction to the album. It was a concept record. Hot Space was a concept record? What was the concept? To destroy their own careers in the States? Or did you mean Flash Gordon, which I think is probably, technically, a soundtrack album. A concept album, as I understand it, is one that follows a theme throughout, but one of the artist's own creation. FG was created to accompany a film - I think there's a difference, but I could be wrong, and frequently am. I am going to ask the same question as perhaps there was merely a misunderstanding. Wikipedia uses the same definition of an “concept album“ as I have understood it, namely “an album whose tracks hold a larger purpose or meaning collectively than they do individually”. Concept albums are usually reserved for songs that are all devoted to the same theme or, in some cases like an opera, devoted to telling a larger story. To me, Hot Space is very disjointed, especially between the first side (dance and new wave), and the second side of more traditional Queen songs. I sense no common theme or story. Are you sure that you did not mean a “PROOF OF CONCEPT“ album, where “proof of concept“ means a demonstration of a new idea to prove that it is feasible? Hot Space would certainly meet that definition, as a demonstration of a new style of music for the band to determine that it is feasible for them to play it - but not necessarily that it was successful or workable going forward. Not being snarky – just trying to clarify whether maybe the words you chose did or did not exactly impart your intended meaning.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Jun 25, 2022 6:21:16 GMT
I understood mate. Just couldn't believe fans reaction to the album. It was a concept record. Hot Space was a concept record? What was the concept? To destroy their own careers in the States? Hot Space - An Essay In Crap - in all it's guises and shades of brown looks like a concept album to me.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jun 25, 2022 7:08:26 GMT
Just in the sense that they wanted to try something new. A concept album. Linkin Park done it too.
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Post by Steve on Jun 25, 2022 7:09:54 GMT
Certainly not to stay with that genre, but more of an experimental sound.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Jun 25, 2022 8:41:55 GMT
Hot Space era was so missed opportunity. Freddie voice was in great shape, but all of them had weak songwriting - bad ideas. It was mistake to use Freddie vocals on weak Songs.
Having released GH, they could easily release an album in 1983-84.
Flash Gordon is a soundtrack, the first side is beautiful while on second side there are some diamonds like The Hero. It didn't harm Queen
The Works could have been huge hit in US like it was in rest of the world. US lost some hits and probably some concerts, however helped Queen history to move into new eras. No good without bad...
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cmi
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Post by cmi on Jun 25, 2022 8:42:26 GMT
For me the question must be not "What if FG and HS didn't exist?" but "What if Paul Prenter never been (inside Queen circle)?"
BTW, I like Flash Gordon as an OST and I really like Hot Space as an experimental album.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Jun 25, 2022 8:56:19 GMT
For me the question must be not "What if FG and HS didn't exist?" but "What if Paul Prenter never been (inside Queen circle)?" BTW, I like Flash Gordon as an OST and I really like Hot Space as an experimental album. I really don't know anythithng about him except the tabloids stories he sold. I think , he must had done some good things for Queen, otherwise why he was kept with them. The Works wasn't hit due to record industry payola, it was before IWTBF video and looking not only Queen chart run, many artists almost disappeared from good chart positions to below top 40-50. No touring was huge mistake.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Jun 25, 2022 11:06:20 GMT
Just in the sense that they wanted to try something new. A concept album. Linkin Park done it too. a concept is a theme linking the individual songs. If you take the "funk/black category [whatever you call it]" songs on HS: Staying Power, Dancer, Back Chat, Body Language, Under Pressure, Cool Cat - there is no central theme running through/linking them. In fact they're not even the same genres of dance music are they? I don't get you, sorry. breaking off into a different music genre isn't a concept. Were that the case then Deep Purple: Come Taste The Band and David Bowie - Young Americans would be concept albums. they're not. if you really do want to listen to a true concept album in "funk/black category [whatever you call it]" mould, the you couldn't do any better than listen to Marvin Gaye - What's Going Onand on writing, production, arrangement and overall quality HS just doesn't hold a candle to What's Going On.
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billy
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Post by billy on Jun 25, 2022 12:42:25 GMT
I’ve often wondered how the reception to HS in the States might have been different if sides 1 and 2 had been reversed. If the first thing you heard when you put the needle down was the guitar intro to Put Out the Fire and not the funky synthesizer bass of Staying Power would that have made a difference to the fans and radio station personnel and record store clerks? If the album had been perceived as a rock album with some funky songs and not as a total departure to their previous sound? Las Palabras could have been the lead single instead of Body Language (I don’t remember how far in advance of the album’s release that Under Pressure came out) and set a whole different tone for this album. Maybe they still would have toured the US if they had the backing of the rock radio stations?
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Steve
Wordles & Heardles
Queen Mab
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Post by Steve on Jun 25, 2022 12:49:35 GMT
Just in the sense that they wanted to try something new. A concept album. Linkin Park done it too. a concept is a theme linking the individual songs. If you take the "funk/black category [whatever you call it]" songs on HS: Staying Power, Dancer, Back Chat, Body Language, Under Pressure, Cool Cat - there is no central theme running through/linking them. In fact they're not even the same genres of dance music are they? I don't get you, sorry. breaking off into a different music genre isn't a concept. Were that the case then Deep Purple: Come Taste The Band and David Bowie - Young Americans would be concept albums. they're not. if you really do want to listen to a true concept album in "funk/black category [whatever you call it]" mould, the you couldn't do any better than listen to Marvin Gaye - What's Going Onand on writing, production, arrangement and overall quality HS just doesn't hold a candle to What's Going On. There is no consensus among music critics as to the specific criteria for what a "concept album" is. It's just my opinion.
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BrƎИsꓘi
Administrator
They called it paradise, I don't know why...You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Jun 25, 2022 21:26:15 GMT
Just in the sense that they wanted to try something new. A concept album. There is no consensus among music critics as to the specific criteria for what a "concept album" is. It's just my opinion. Steve, when you're in a hole - stop digging fella. Music critics don't decide on whether an LP is a concept (or not) - bands do. Did you ever hear anyone from Queen refer to HS as a concept album? thought not. because it isn't. All of the following: Beatles - Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band King Crimson - In THe Court of The Crimson King Green Day – American Idiot Green Day – 21st Century Breakdown Marvin Gaye – What's Going On Jethro Tull - thick as a Brick Rush - Clockwork Angels Pink Floyd - DSOTM Pink Floyd - WYWH Pink Floyd - Animals Pink Floyd - The Wall Pink Floyd - The Final Cut Small faces - Ogden's Nut Gone Flake The Moody Blues – In Search of the Lost Chord ELO - Time Styx - grand Illusion Styx - Paradise Theatre Who - Who Sell Out Yes – Tales from Topographic Oceans Iron Maiden – Seventh Son of a Seventh Son Madonna - Erotica My Chemical Romance – The Black Parade David Bowie - The Rise & Fall of... David Bowie - Aladdin Sane David Bowie - Low David Bowie - Diamond Dogs Genesis – The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Alice Cooper – Welcome to My Nightmare The Alan Parsons Project – Eye in the Sky The Band - The band Duran Duran - 7 & The Ragged Toger Eagles - Hotel California Eagles - Desperado Marillion - Misplaced Childhood are concept albums. even Kiss - Music From (the fucking) Elder is a concept album Steve, there are hundreds and hundreds of online lists of concept albums - and Hot Space is consistently absent from every single one of those lists. It ain't a concept album.
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Post by saintjiub on Jun 25, 2022 23:08:37 GMT
Just in the sense that they wanted to try something new. A concept album. There is no consensus among music critics as to the specific criteria for what a "concept album" is. It's just my opinion. Steve, when you're in a hole - stop digging fella. Music critics don't decide on whether an LP is a concept (or not) - bands do. Did you ever hear anyone from Queen refer to HS as a concept album? thought not. because it isn't. All of the following: Beatles - Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band King Crimson - In THe Court of The Crimson King Green Day – American Idiot Green Day – 21st Century Breakdown Marvin Gaye – What's Going On Jethro Tull - thick as a Brick Rush - Clockwork Angels Pink Floyd - DSOTM Pink Floyd - WYWH Pink Floyd - Animals Pink Floyd - The Wall Pink Floyd - The Final Cut Small faces - Ogden's Nut Gone Flake The Moody Blues – In Search of the Lost Chord ELO - Time Styx - grand Illusion Styx - Paradise Theatre Who - Who Sell Out Yes – Tales from Topographic Oceans Iron Maiden – Seventh Son of a Seventh Son Madonna - Erotica My Chemical Romance – The Black Parade David Bowie - The Rise & Fall of... David Bowie - Aladdin Sane David Bowie - Low David Bowie - Diamond Dogs Genesis – The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Alice Cooper – Welcome to My Nightmare The Alan Parsons Project – Eye in the Sky The Band - The band Duran Duran - 7 & The Ragged Toger Eagles - Hotel California Eagles - Desperado Marillion - Misplaced Childhood are concept albums. even Kiss - Music From (the fucking) Elder is a concept album Steve, there are hundreds and hundreds of online lists of concept albums - and Hot Space is consistently absent from every single one of those lists. It ain't a concept album. Hot Space is obviously a gay love concept album
Little known fact ... The last song on Hot Space was originally titled Anal Pressure. When Brian made the last second change to the song title, David Bowie withdrew his vocals from Cool Cat in protest.
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