leighburne
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Post by leighburne on Sept 16, 2024 16:52:03 GMT
Indeed, Thin Lizzy performed Are You Ready since 1976 but a studio version never appeared, although I think a rough demo did surface at some point. They actually did record that in the studio, several times, but none of them got released because they were never quite satisfied with it (although, as you mentioned, a studio take did come out on one of their recent rarities sets). But on the subject of Lizzy, they had at least three other songs that they played live, some of them for years, but never did in the studio. |
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manymilesaway
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Post by manymilesaway on Sept 16, 2024 21:06:41 GMT
I think we need to seriously consider the possibility that no studio recording of Hangman exists, or has ever existed. I know JSS claimed to have an acetate of it, but that claim exists in a void: Roger and Brian don't remember recording it, it doesn't show up on any studio track sheet, no umpteenth generation recording ever circulated among even the most fanatical collectors. Going back to this remix, it's obvious that they chose either a modern drum sample or took a modern sample from Roger. Not true, it's just a very processed rendition of the original De Lane Lea drums. I was able to do something similar with the snare drum on Jazz. |
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Post by snakecharmer on Sept 16, 2024 21:20:40 GMT
The general public have not got their hands on the "Queen 1" box set yet , to me it looks a very good & yet so many are ranting about a video for "The Night Comes Down" , I have not seen it yet . They have tried something new and it's gone wrong , so what ?! If that's all you have to worry about in your life , then you are very lucky. Now we are getting our knickers in a twist about " Hangman!" an obscure song which we don't even know if it was ever recorded . Today I have pre ordered the single disc version of "Queen 1". After as that's what I can afford . When I get it I will enjoy hearing the new mix. As the great man once said " ."It's only a bloody record people get so excited about these things !"
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creepy
Satyr
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Post by creepy on Sept 16, 2024 21:31:11 GMT
The general public have not got their hands on the "Queen 1" box set yet , to me it looks a very good & yet so many are ranting about a video for "The Night Comes Down" , I have not seen it yet . They have tried something new and it's gone wrong , so what ?! If that's all you have to worry about in your life , then you are very lucky. Now we are getting our knickers in a twist about " Hangman!" an obscure song which we don't even know if it was ever recorded . Today I have pre ordered the single disc version of "Queen 1". After as that's what I can afford . When I get it I will enjoy hearing the new mix. As the great man once said " ."It's only a bloody record people get so excited about these things !" I quite agree with what you say. Kind regards. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 16, 2024 21:47:07 GMT
Going back to this remix, it's obvious that they chose either a modern drum sample or took a modern sample from Roger. Not true, it's just a very processed rendition of the original De Lane Lea drums. I was able to do something similar with the snare drum on Jazz. They managed to make the drums sound good on the movie version of DSMN, so hopefully they could do that for the whole album. Not sure if that was just a remix or whether some re-recording was done (other than the guitar)? |
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manymilesaway
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Post by manymilesaway on Sept 16, 2024 21:48:24 GMT
Not true, it's just a very processed rendition of the original De Lane Lea drums. I was able to do something similar with the snare drum on Jazz. They managed to make the drums sound good on the movie version of DSMN, so hopefully they could do that for the whole album. Not sure if that was just a remix or whether some re-recording was done (other than the guitar)? That one was a complete re-recording. That said, it definitely is possible to make the drums sound better on Jazz with its multitracks- I've already gotten good progress on Fat Bottomed Girls as well. |
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IanR
Tatterdemalion
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Post by IanR on Sept 17, 2024 7:55:01 GMT
Have you considered the mp3 version of the entire box set? I purchase it in the US Where it was about $10 on Amazon. I believe others have ordered it on Amazon UK. yep, was £21 on AmazonUK Got a link for that? |
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IanR
Tatterdemalion
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Post by IanR on Sept 17, 2024 8:14:12 GMT
Interesting question: do the band have access to the multitracks for the entirety of the original album? I ask, because for some years there has been rumor to the effect that the multis for Great King Rat had been lost years prior to the Hollywood Records reissues. Someone over on the Steve Hoffman forums has made a very astute observation: one of the producers for the new set is one James Clark, a demixing expert whom the Beatles used on their Hollywood Bowl release. Could it be that his expertise was utilised to demix the Trident recording of Great King Rat (and maybe other songs) to facilitate a remix? Certains seems plausible to me ... forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/queen-debut-boxset-2024.1209491/page-22#post-35236656 |
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cmi
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Post by cmi on Sept 17, 2024 8:46:05 GMT
As I remember, there was a problem not with multitrack of Great King Rat but with final stereo master of the song. Because of that, they picked the alternate preliminary mix (most probably by Roy Thomas Baker) to use on 1991 Hollywood Records CD and later on 1993/4 CD remaster. It features louder drums and more radical stereo position of guitars.
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Post by snakecharmer on Sept 17, 2024 9:09:28 GMT
Good morning everybody. I have a CD called "Queen In Nuce" which contains tracks by both Queen & Smile "on it. Both "Mad The Swine" & "Blag" are on it but unfortunately "Hangman" is not included. If " Hangman" had been recorded I rather think this would be the album with it on it. In the middle of "Blag" Brian gives us a short piece of " Brighton Rock" which he was probably working on. The full tack listing 1]Going Back 2] Mad The Swine 3] Earth 4] April Lady 5] Polar Bear 6] I Can Hear Music 7] Step On Me 8]Blag 9] Misfire 10] Going Back [Mix]. I hope this may be of some interest to some and maybe another bit of the puzzle of if there was every a recording of "Hangman". Hope you all have good day.
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manymilesaway
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Post by manymilesaway on Sept 17, 2024 9:22:52 GMT
Interesting question: do the band have access to the multitracks for the entirety of the original album? I ask, because for some years there has been rumor to the effect that the multis for Great King Rat had been lost years prior to the Hollywood Records reissues. Someone over on the Steve Hoffman forums has made a very astute observation: one of the producers for the new set is one James Clark, a demixing expert whom the Beatles used on their Hollywood Bowl release. Could it be that his expertise was utilised to demix the Trident recording of Great King Rat (and maybe other songs) to facilitate a remix? Certains seems plausible to me ... forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/queen-debut-boxset-2024.1209491/page-22#post-35236656That's not talking about the multitracks- that's about the original stereo master, so basically the final mixdown. That's what was lost from Great King Rat. They have pretty much everything from Queen I multi-track wise. |
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Post by airpodsmax on Sept 17, 2024 9:23:49 GMT
Good morning everybody. I have a CD called "Queen In Nuce" which contains tracks by both Queen & Smile "on it. Both "Mad The Swine" & "Blag" are on it but unfortunately "Hangman" is not included. If " Hangman" had been recorded I rather think this would be the album with it on it. In the middle of "Blag" Brian gives us a short piece of " Brighton Rock" which he was probably working on. The full tack listing 1]Going Back 2] Mad The Swine 3] Earth 4] April Lady 5] Polar Bear 6] I Can Hear Music 7] Step On Me 8]Blag 9] Misfire 10] Going Back [Mix]. I hope this may be of some interest to some and maybe another bit of the puzzle of if there was every a recording of "Hangman". Hope you all have good day. I always thought that Queen in Nuce is a bootleg. |
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manymilesaway
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Post by manymilesaway on Sept 17, 2024 9:24:34 GMT
Good morning everybody. I have a CD called "Queen In Nuce" which contains tracks by both Queen & Smile "on it. Both "Mad The Swine" & "Blag" are on it but unfortunately "Hangman" is not included. If " Hangman" had been recorded I rather think this would be the album with it on it. In the middle of "Blag" Brian gives us a short piece of " Brighton Rock" which he was probably working on. The full tack listing 1]Going Back 2] Mad The Swine 3] Earth 4] April Lady 5] Polar Bear 6] I Can Hear Music 7] Step On Me 8]Blag 9] Misfire 10] Going Back [Mix]. I hope this may be of some interest to some and maybe another bit of the puzzle of if there was every a recording of "Hangman". Hope you all have good day. I always thought that Queen in Nuce is a bootleg. That's cause it is. |
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ted
Ploughman
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Post by ted on Sept 17, 2024 11:21:53 GMT
I've known of the Queen in Nuce boot. for quite a long time; as it's an unofficial release, the likelihood of an existing studio rendition of Hangman is not diminished so much by it's non-inclusion on that album, at least in my view.
Ted
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JackG
Ostler
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Post by JackG on Sept 17, 2024 11:49:22 GMT
Queen In Nuce is just:
Goin' Back + I Can Hear Music copied from the 1972 Vinyl
Mad The Swine from the 1991 B-Side
The Smile tracks from Gettin' Smile (1982)
It just took circulating tracks and put them in a single CD
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Sept 17, 2024 11:58:08 GMT
Good morning everybody. I have a CD called "Queen In Nuce" which contains tracks by both Queen & Smile "on it. Both "Mad The Swine" & "Blag" are on it but unfortunately "Hangman" is not included. If " Hangman" had been recorded I rather think this would be the album with it on it. In the middle of "Blag" Brian gives us a short piece of " Brighton Rock" which he was probably working on. The full tack listing 1]Going Back 2] Mad The Swine 3] Earth 4] April Lady 5] Polar Bear 6] I Can Hear Music 7] Step On Me 8]Blag 9] Misfire 10] Going Back [Mix]. I hope this may be of some interest to some and maybe another bit of the puzzle of if there was every a recording of "Hangman". Hope you all have good day. I always thought that Queen in Nuce is a bootleg. To me it's a pirate, as it uses released material . Bootlegs are more about UNreleased material, IMO. (This isn't a legal position, I know...) |
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Plengel
Dragonfly Trumpeter
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Post by Plengel on Sept 17, 2024 12:05:24 GMT
I think that 'Misfire' from that release was promoted as a demo, but in fact was just a fake. I believe only one channel recorded from the stereo recording...
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The Real Wizard
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 17, 2024 13:23:54 GMT
I always thought that Queen in Nuce is a bootleg. To me it's a pirate, as it uses released material . Bootlegs are more about UNreleased material, IMO. (This isn't a legal position, I know...) Actually, it is - most jurisdictions would label it as piracy.  |
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Plengel
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Post by Plengel on Sept 17, 2024 14:39:37 GMT
On topic again! My view on this release:
General: Really excited for this one! It has everything that, in my opinion, should be in a Deluxe Edition for this album. Could there have been more? Yes, but it could also have been much worse. I think the look and feel of the set are great as I kinda like the minimalistic cover design; not like the full album cover like Brian's Gold Series. I also think that the matt, soft touch finishing vives it more style and class than the glossy look on the News of the World set. I'm still hoping that they will release a replacement casing for that one with matt finishing. Rediculously priced of course...
When I saw the 'unboxing' video by Brian, I was pleasantly surprised by the look of the LP cover; well known album cover, with the album title in gold. Renaming the album to Queen I, wasn't necessary for me, but I somehow understand why they did it.
Also curious about the book. It has a significant amount of more pages than the books in The Miracle and News of the World sets, but I hope it won't be filled with just band photos. I hope some extensive reads on how the album was created and scans of early lyrics, tape boxes, etc. are included as well. These give a great insight in the forming of the band/album.
Disc 1 - Queen I (2024 Remix): I agree with the band, that particularly the drum sound was not too good in the original mix, so I'm looking forward to this remix. From what I've heard on the remix of The Night Comes Down, unexpected but great choice for a single by the way, the might have just overdone it a bit for that track. In general, the track sounds fresher and cleaner to me and the overall instrumentation has more depth into it. Curious on how the rest will sound, but I expect that the uplifted drum sound will work. Especially on the heavier tracks.
Disc 2 - De Lane Lea demo tape (2024 Remix): I realy believe that these are essential to be included in a collector's/expanded edition of this album, but was it really necesarry to have just 5 tracks on one CD? I'm also not sure about the remix... In contrary to the album, this was what they created and where happy with, to get them a recording/record deal.I would have kept the original mix to maintain the essence of it's purpose, I think.
Disc 3 - Sessions and Outtakes: I think we might conclude by now that every future album boxset will have a CD with these Frankenstein'd outtakes and remixes and I'm happy with it. I find this a great way of showcasing the process to the final songs/tracks and I don't have the hassle to go through many different takes to look for the interstibg bits. There's only one track that I'm interested in to have maybe 2 CD'S worth of outtakes, but only if it showcase a clear journey in the evolvement of that track, and that is of course Bohemian Rhapsody.
Disc 4 - Instrumentals: For me, essential to have in an expanded edition. Not much to add.
Disc 5 - BBC Session: Again, for me these are essential to have in this set. This was done to promote their debut album, so it would feel not complete to me if they weren't included. Even though I have them already three times.
Disc 6 - Live Versions: I'm not to fond of loose live versions on releases, as I miss the flow of a full live release, but this was expected. I have the feeling that they wanted to include a live version for each track of the album, but it's a shame that none of them are from a tour/concert that was actually used to promote the album. Re-using the Rainbow tracks feels kinda lazy, but in return we will get two tracks predating the album by more than three years. That sort of makes up for the Rainbow dissapointment. Shame though, that it isn't the full gig.
With Hangman, I have a little bit the feeling that they have included it just for the sake of it. I can agree that a studio version was not recorded/does not exist anymore/is not in QP's possesion, but releasing a live version from an obscure gig that not much is known about feels to me like 'We don't know about Hangmat, but if they want it so bad, let them have it. Anyway, fine by me, because if a studio version of Hangman does exsist and it sounds like the live versions I've heard, then it will still remain a very mediocre song. Not even in my top 100 of favourite Queen tracks.
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Sept 17, 2024 14:54:53 GMT
I might have already said this, but Golders Green would be a much better fit for this than some curated Rainbow tracks.
Both re-releases of course, but one a better fit than the other.
As for choosing Hangman from 1976 - maybe this is an indication that while the band have more live tapes than they have suggested, they don't have so many that they can pick and choose performances of rarely-played tracks....or this version is better than any of the Japan ones....or even that they CHOSE to give us a version they know isn't already out on a bootleg somewhere.
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Post by airpodsmax on Sept 17, 2024 14:55:19 GMT
On topic again! My view on this release: General: Really excited for this one! It has everything that, in my opinion, should be in a Deluxe Edition for this album. Could there have been more? Yes, but it could also have been much worse. I think the look and feel of the set are great as I kinda like the minimalistic cover design; not like the full album cover like Brian's Gold Series. I also think that the matt, soft touch finishing vives it more style and class than the glossy look on the News of the World set. I'm still hoping that they will release a replacement casing for that one with matt finishing. Rediculously priced of course... When I saw the 'unboxing' video by Brian, I was pleasantly surprised by the look of the LP cover; well known album cover, with the album title in gold. Renaming the album to Queen I, wasn't necessary for me, but I somehow understand why they did it. Also curious about the book. It has a significant amount of more pages than the books in The Miracle and News of the World sets, but I hope it won't be filled with just band photos. I hope some extensive reads on how the album was created and scans of early lyrics, tape boxes, etc. are included as well. These give a great insight in the forming of the band/album. Disc 1 - Queen I (2024 Remix): I agree with the band, that particularly the drum sound was not too good in the original mix, so I'm looking forward to this remix. From what I've heard on the remix of The Night Comes Down, unexpected but great choice for a single by the way, the might have just overdone it a bit for that track. In general, the track sounds fresher and cleaner to me and the overall instrumentation has more depth into it. Curious on how the rest will sound, but I expect that the uplifted drum sound will work. Especially on the heavier tracks. Disc 2 - De Lane Lea demo tape (2024 Remix): I realy believe that these are essential to be included in a collector's/expanded edition of this album, but was it really necesarry to have just 5 tracks on one CD? I'm also not sure about the remix... In contrary to the album, this was what they created and where happy with, to get them a recording/record deal.I would have kept the original mix to maintain the essence of it's purpose, I think. Disc 3 - Sessions and Outtakes: I think we might conclude by now that every future album boxset will have a CD with these Frankenstein'd outtakes and remixes and I'm happy with it. I find this a great way of showcasing the process to the final songs/tracks and I don't have the hassle to go through many different takes to look for the interstibg bits. There's only one track that I'm interested in to have maybe 2 CD'S worth of outtakes, but only if it showcase a clear journey in the evolvement of that track, and that is of course Bohemian Rhapsody. Disc 4 - Instrumentals: For me, essential to have in an expanded edition. Not much to add. Disc 5 - BBC Session: Again, for me these are essential to have in this set. This was done to promote their debut album, so it would feel not complete to me if they weren't included. Even though I have them already three timestamp. Disc 6 - Live Versions: I'm not to fond of loose live versions on releases, as I miss the flow of a full live release, but this was expected. I have the feeling that they wanted to include a live version for each track of the album, but it's a shame that none of them are from a tour/concert that was actually used to promote the album. Re-using the Rainbow tracks feels kinda lazy, but in return we will get two tracks predating the album by more than three years. That sort of makes up for the Rainbow dissapointment. Shame though, that it isn't the full gig. With Hangman, I have a little bit the feeling that they have included it just for the sake of it. I can agree that a studio version was not recorded/does not exist anymore/is not in QP's possesion, but releasing a live version from an obscure gig that not much is known about feels to me like 'We don't know about Hangmat, but if they want it so bad, let them have it. Anyway, fine by me, because if a studio version of Hangman does exsist and it sounds like the live versions I've heard, then it will still remain a very mediocre song. Not even in my top 100 of favourite Queen tracks. I felt bad for Hangman song . In my opinion, this is the rarest and most underrated song. I wouldn't call it mediocre. It's stupid to call it mediocre if someone hasn't heard it, or even we do not know anything about Hangman . I could just as easily call "The Show Must Go On" or "Bohemian Rhapsody" mediocre, but I wouldn't have the heart to do it because it's a classic. |
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Post by airpodsmax on Sept 17, 2024 15:31:17 GMT
I might have already said this, but Golders Green would be a much better fit for this than some curated Rainbow tracks. Both re-releases of course, but one a better fit than the other. As for choosing Hangman from 1976 - maybe this is an indication that while the band have more live tapes than they have suggested, they don't have so many that they can pick and choose performances of rarely-played tracks....or this version is better than any of the Japan ones....or even that they CHOSE to give us a version they know isn't already out on a bootleg somewhere. or Live in San Diego 1976 complete I'd prefer more than Rainbow because since 2014 too much listened this concert but who ever asked us. They release what they want, when they want. Total chaos in chronology. I know that Live in San Diego 1976 from another era but as if anyone cares. We want it all we want it now |
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kosimodo
Dragonfly Trumpeter
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Post by kosimodo on Sept 17, 2024 17:19:10 GMT
To me it's a pirate, as it uses released material . Bootlegs are more about UNreleased material, IMO. (This isn't a legal position, I know...) Actually, it is - most jurisdictions would label it as piracy. Piracy would be if it was for sale somewhere. There was never a smile cd release. Unreleased then imho. |
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leighburne
Dragonfly Trumpeter
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Post by leighburne on Sept 17, 2024 17:34:17 GMT
There was never a smile cd release. Unreleased then imho. was at least semi-official, wasn’t it? |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 17, 2024 17:36:58 GMT
Actually, it is - most jurisdictions would label it as piracy. Piracy would be if it was for sale somewhere. There was never a smile cd release. Unreleased then imho. But it has stuff on it that has been released, so it's still technically a copyrights breach. |
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Sept 17, 2024 17:40:24 GMT
Actually, it is - most jurisdictions would label it as piracy. Piracy would be if it was for sale somewhere. There was never a smile cd release. Unreleased then imho. Copyright isn't format specific! The Smile tracks were legally released in 1982. your humble opinion notwithstanding. Plus, a release with 3 pirated tracks is still a pirate release, they wouldn't get a pass if the rest of it was OK.... |
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Raf
Ostler
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Post by Raf on Sept 17, 2024 17:53:44 GMT
To me it's a pirate, as it uses released material . Bootlegs are more about UNreleased material, IMO. (This isn't a legal position, I know...) Actually, it is - most jurisdictions would label it as piracy. Anyone involved with this should be in jail for using commas instead of colons for timestamps, and that is a legal position  |
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Sept 17, 2024 18:03:56 GMT
Actually, it is - most jurisdictions would label it as piracy. Anyone involved with this should be in jail for using commas instead of colons for timestamps, and that is a legal position That's a Europe thing, I think. See also a million represented as 1.000.000 |
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Post by funinspace81 on Sept 17, 2024 18:50:04 GMT
There was never a smile cd release. Unreleased then imho. was at least semi-official, wasn’t it? In my books, it's 100% official. |
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Post by mattzarella on Sept 17, 2024 18:53:11 GMT
Thanks for fleshing out where the IN NUCE disc tracks stem from.
Being that I'm not British, it was a while until I could figure out how to say IN "NEW•KAY"
Got a copy a gazillion years ago at a second hand music shop that had umpteen shrink wrapped Queen discs with the barcodes punched.
It was a most enjoyable disc
Before the net was big and Napster, stuff like that was likely the only place you could find the content. The back pages of GUITAR or other magazines would sometimes have sheet lists of discs and VHS titles rare or for order in lists but I'd have never seen that on a Japanese Smile release.
What a time. Though still difficult... it somehow seemed a lot better and less hasty
Of note: if you scroll this post quickly it looks like missing Freddie on a milk carton
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