emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Oct 17, 2024 9:22:07 GMT
While we're at it, he even looked full of energy during the Headlong video, surely they could have played a live gig around that time in late 1990... At one point he's actually asleep on the shelving unit, that's not being full of energy. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 17, 2024 10:06:12 GMT
I think if he was well enough we would have had some kind of appearance, The fact that we don't suggests that he wasn't. I can't believe the May 1989 interview with the band (Queen for an hour) was the only kind of promotion Freddie was originally going to participate in. It was pretty much business as usual up to the end of 1988 (Interviews, Time musical and a couple of Barcelona appearances), then Freddie must have taken a drastic downward turn in 1989, which made them cancel any planned appearances and interviews. exactly this ^ they [Queen] kept all band appearances to an absolutely necessary only basis, because they [the band] were compassionate and concerned about Freddie. There is a chasm of difference between metaphorically and actually dying on stage. While the former is a pretty awful experience for most performers, it's merely a scratch when compared to the latter. No decent human being would knowingly subject their friend to that risk. Just ask anyone who was ever close to Tommy CooperI remember watching that. Everyone thought it was part of his act. Until it wasn't. As it happens, Eric Morecombe and Leonard Rossitor passed in the same year, both having just come off stage, and Sid James died in 1976 during a performance. |
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Post by mattzarella on Oct 18, 2024 1:38:11 GMT
^RE: Tommy Cooper
That's a regional and age relative thing.. but oh man...omfg.. that was disturbing to just read and see.
Same thing happened to Redd Foxx although it was backstage. He had a heart attack onstage rehearsing with cast
But wholly holy cow.. an audience perplexed and laughing it up? How disturbing that must have been.
Chaplin did something similar in Limelight positing his own death/retirement w onstage heart attack.
How did people carry on that day, the next day? I'm curious how the public treated it on an apparent nationally loved live program.
Forgive the slight derail.
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Post by Queen II 74 on Oct 18, 2024 4:08:59 GMT
In 1986/87 he was tired about tour dates, and he was thinking about his age, 45 years and a lot of things to do... i think about a tour retirement like the Beatles in 1966 was the best option, and i always thought if theys recorded something together between 1987 and 1990 that don't was The Miracle Sessions, or Barcelona, or The Cross or anything else than this other projects.
Maybe they could work in a new album in 1987 to release in 1988...
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 18, 2024 9:35:29 GMT
^RE: Tommy Cooper That's a regional and age relative thing.. but oh man...omfg.. that was disturbing to just read and see. Same thing happened to Redd Foxx although it was backstage. He had a heart attack onstage rehearsing with cast But wholly holy cow.. an audience perplexed and laughing it up? How disturbing that must have been. Chaplin did something similar in Limelight positing his own death/retirement w onstage heart attack. How did people carry on that day, the next day? I'm curious how the public treated it on an apparent nationally loved live program. Forgive the slight derail. It was obviously big news, because he was a big entertainer, and it's not often people drop dead on live TV. They never actually showed the incident again in full, from what I recall. Of course, it wasn't like today where it would have been all over social media. If you hadn't seen it live, the chances are you wouldn't see it again back then. |
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Post by dragonkiller on Oct 18, 2024 12:18:17 GMT
^RE: Tommy Cooper That's a regional and age relative thing.. but oh man...omfg.. that was disturbing to just read and see. Same thing happened to Redd Foxx although it was backstage. He had a heart attack onstage rehearsing with cast But wholly holy cow.. an audience perplexed and laughing it up? How disturbing that must have been. Chaplin did something similar in Limelight positing his own death/retirement w onstage heart attack. How did people carry on that day, the next day? I'm curious how the public treated it on an apparent nationally loved live program. Forgive the slight derail. It was obviously big news, because he was a big entertainer, and it's not often people drop dead on live TV. They never actually showed the incident again in full, from what I recall. Of course, it wasn't like today where it would have been all over social media. If you hadn't seen it live, the chances are you wouldn't see it again back then. As far as I can remember when I was watching on TV, he had just finished his act and started to go through the drawn curtains behind him. I watched him starting to fall to the stage, and he was holding onto the curtain as he fell. The live audience and those viewing on the TV actually did think it was part of his routine. You could see the stage hands rushing to his aid very quickly and I think the cameras were turn off quick. A announcement followed shortly afterwards, and as LF mentioned it wasn't shown again. It's something that you don't forget. |
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scallyuk
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Post by scallyuk on Oct 18, 2024 12:37:20 GMT
I'll risk sounding ignorant now, but I don't know how doctors used to handle AIDS back in the day - maybe he had recommendations to limit his exposure to crowds depending on the results of each new exam? His disease affected his immune system, so on the worst days, he was probably very vulnerable and catching even a common cold could've killed him. Well it wasn't handled well. It took until 1987 for the UK’s first specialist HIV/AIDS unit at London’s Middlesex Hospital to get opened. Even after that a LOT of people believed it could be transmitted by being in the same space as an HIV positive person or by shaking hands, Many nurses wouldn't treat AIDS patients. Those of us who volunteered at Terence Higgins Trust were often the only people that AIDS patients saw because many "normal" hospitals just treated it like a quarantine ward with plastic sheeting and full gowns even when there was no blood risk. For Freddie to have come out as positive in the 1980's would have been very brave but very foolish. He would have been basically banned from leaving the UK as no other country would have allowed him in. He'd certainly have been uninsurable if Queen had decided to tour. The rest of the band would have been bombarded with questions. |
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dave76
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Post by dave76 on Oct 18, 2024 16:03:42 GMT
I remember that a concert promoter was scouting for locations to play live in early '89 only to be told later that the band would not go on tour. I think If Freddie was fit enough for it, was able to do something maybe like one or two songs on playback in TV shows.
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Oct 18, 2024 16:55:41 GMT
In a perfect world, if "breaking the album-tour cycle" wasn't in their minds, a short UK mini-tour reminiscent of the summer '76 tour wouldn't be a bad idea. One at the Hammersmith, another at the Lyceum etc. Just enough shows to count in one hand A less-than-ideal world would be them appearing in something like the Brit Award and pretty much pulling a Montreux Golden Rose. They looked at doing a week at Wembley arena and a week of shows in Munich. But for what ever reason this was never officially announced, although Roger Taylor in an interview in a UK daily paper before the album’s release in 89 said they were looking into the possibility of playing live in a fixed location “a kind of Miracle Pavilion”. Another UK daily mentioned the up coming album release and said UK tour dates as part of a £1 million tour would be announced soon! Samuelson Lighting (the company that lit the Magic Tour) had some lighting design plans for the gigs. But nothing got any further than very early planning as far as I know. I did once read that actual Roger quote (like an idiot I didn't bookmark it) and it was something along the lines of "Maybe we'll do a one off 'Miraculous night at the London Pavilion'.." I call pure, 100% nonsense on this, I'm afraid. Roger's statement such as it was, was no more than the hedging the whole band indulged in over the next 2 years. There won't be a tour, or not the way we used to.. I hope we'll tour.. not at the moment but things may change etc, etc. A while back I did a few dives through the Daily Mirror archives and yes, they (like most tabloids do) were 'sexing up' the Miracle release news snippets, with things like "sources indicate the group will undertake a £1 million tour in the summer" and similar unsourced gossip.. based on nothing. What we now call clickbait. I never saw the 'Pavilion' quote in the Mirror btw. We know 100% they were all outright lying through their teeth from 89-91, but this one statement (which is always misquoted and never sourced) is often accepted at face value. That's because fans want it to be true. Then again, I am open to be proved wrong.. that's if anyone has any actual evidence (the actual direct quote/s and source would be a start!). Until then I will continue to call nonsense.. |
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vh
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Post by vh on Oct 18, 2024 19:48:51 GMT
They looked at doing a week at Wembley arena and a week of shows in Munich. But for what ever reason this was never officially announced, although Roger Taylor in an interview in a UK daily paper before the album’s release in 89 said they were looking into the possibility of playing live in a fixed location “a kind of Miracle Pavilion”. Another UK daily mentioned the up coming album release and said UK tour dates as part of a £1 million tour would be announced soon! Samuelson Lighting (the company that lit the Magic Tour) had some lighting design plans for the gigs. But nothing got any further than very early planning as far as I know. I did once read that actual Roger quote (like an idiot I didn't bookmark it) and it was something along the lines of "Maybe we'll do a one off 'Miraculous night at the London Pavilion'.." I call pure, 100% nonsense on this, I'm afraid. Roger's statement such as it was, was no more than the hedging the whole band indulged in over the next 2 years. There won't be a tour, or not the way we used to.. I hope we'll tour.. not at the moment but things may change etc, etc. A while back I did a few dives through the Daily Mirror archives and yes, they (like most tabloids do) were 'sexing up' the Miracle release news snippets, with things like "sources indicate the group will undertake a £1 million tour in the summer" and similar unsourced gossip.. based on nothing. What we now call clickbait. I never saw the 'Pavilion' quote in the Mirror btw. We know 100% they were all outright lying through their teeth from 89-91, but this one statement (which is always misquoted and never sourced) is often accepted at face value. That's because fans want it to be true. Then again, I am open to be proved wrong.. that's if anyone has any actual evidence (the actual direct quote/s and source would be a start!). Until then I will continue to call nonsense.. In 1988 or early 89 Brian also said that they were looking at different ways to present a live show but not a tour. That kind of ties in with Roger’s later comments. The fact that the lighting company they used for the previous tour were sent lighting plans for “A future Queen live production” which they were asked to provide a costing quote for indicates something was discussed. Also potential dates at Wembley Arena and Olympiahalle in Munich were looked at. At some point during these early planning sessions they pulled the plug. Nothing got any further then talking. The band didn’t get as far as rehearsing, the promoter didn’t book venues or announce anything. However someone at one of those venues could have leaked Queen have pencilled in what ever the possible dates were (this doesn’t mean anything was confirmed) and if a newspaper got that bit of info it, in typical media fashion, becomes a huge tour with that magic amount tagged to it. |
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Oct 18, 2024 21:02:05 GMT
I did once read that actual Roger quote (like an idiot I didn't bookmark it) and it was something along the lines of "Maybe we'll do a one off 'Miraculous night at the London Pavilion'.." I call pure, 100% nonsense on this, I'm afraid. Roger's statement such as it was, was no more than the hedging the whole band indulged in over the next 2 years. There won't be a tour, or not the way we used to.. I hope we'll tour.. not at the moment but things may change etc, etc. A while back I did a few dives through the Daily Mirror archives and yes, they (like most tabloids do) were 'sexing up' the Miracle release news snippets, with things like "sources indicate the group will undertake a £1 million tour in the summer" and similar unsourced gossip.. based on nothing. What we now call clickbait. I never saw the 'Pavilion' quote in the Mirror btw. We know 100% they were all outright lying through their teeth from 89-91, but this one statement (which is always misquoted and never sourced) is often accepted at face value. That's because fans want it to be true. Then again, I am open to be proved wrong.. that's if anyone has any actual evidence (the actual direct quote/s and source would be a start!). Until then I will continue to call nonsense.. In 1988 or early 89 Brian also said that they were looking at different ways to present a live show but not a tour. That kind of ties in with Roger’s later comments. The fact that the lighting company they used for the previous tour were sent lighting plans for “A future Queen live production” which they were asked to provide a costing quote for indicates something was discussed.Also potential dates at Wembley Arena and Olympiahalle in Munich were looked at. At some point during these early planning sessions they pulled the plug. Nothing got any further then talking. The band didn’t get as far as rehearsing, the promoter didn’t book venues or announce anything. However someone at one of those venues could have leaked Queen have pencilled in what ever the possible dates were (this doesn’t mean anything was confirmed) and if a newspaper got that bit of info it, in typical media fashion, becomes a huge tour with that magic amount tagged to it. Fair enough, but it still looks like unsubstantiated internet rumour to me. Where exactly does this thing about lighting designs come from? Not being snippy, and I certainly don't mean to be. I mean, I'm genuinely interested as are we all I'm sure. It would put a hell of a spin on everything we think we know about that period but there's still no solid proof - such as a direct, named quote - (after 30 years) beyond 'someone said' or 'I read somewhere'. In the absence of actual evidence it just comes down to whether you believe the stories or not. |
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Oct 19, 2024 7:42:19 GMT
Fair enough, but it still looks like unsubstantiated internet rumour to me. Where exactly does this thing about lighting designs come from? Not being snippy, and I certainly don't mean to be. It might be worth remembering that a stage and lightning WAS 100% undeniably actually created for The Miracle, with a lgihting rig and stage floor, drum platform and lights, it would have been designed by someone and planned up. This is a fact. It's very easy to see how this could be leaked and mixed up. Unconnected I also vaguely remember a 1988 / 1989 interview where Roger says something along the lines "News of us playing live will be coming very soon"... Could be a false memory, but I'm so sure. |
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manymilesaway
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Post by manymilesaway on Oct 19, 2024 8:55:00 GMT
Fair enough, but it still looks like unsubstantiated internet rumour to me. Where exactly does this thing about lighting designs come from? Not being snippy, and I certainly don't mean to be. It might be worth remembering that a stage and lightning WAS 100% undeniably actually created for The Miracle, with a lgihting rig and stage floor, drum platform and lights, it would have been designed by someone and planned up. This is a fact. It's very easy to see how this could be leaked and mixed up. Unconnected I also vaguely remember a 1988 / 1989 interview where Roger says something along the lines "News of us playing live will be coming very soon"... Could be a false memory, but I'm so sure. Right, but oreno asked for a source, not another person to say "Trust me, this is true." I've never heard of this either, so I'm interested in a source as well. |
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Oct 19, 2024 9:01:00 GMT
It might be worth remembering that a stage and lightning WAS 100% undeniably actually created for The Miracle, with a lgihting rig and stage floor, drum platform and lights, it would have been designed by someone and planned up. This is a fact. It's very easy to see how this could be leaked and mixed up. Unconnected I also vaguely remember a 1988 / 1989 interview where Roger says something along the lines "News of us playing live will be coming very soon"... Could be a false memory, but I'm so sure. Right, but oreno asked for a source, not another person to say "Trust me, this is true." I've never heard of this either, so I'm interested in a source as well. You mean a source for the stage? The source would be everyone in the thread seeing it surely?
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Oct 19, 2024 9:27:23 GMT
I think emrabt means The Miracle video set  |
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Oct 19, 2024 9:30:37 GMT
I think emrabt means The Miracle video set Ah, I see the confusion, but case in point; It's very easy to see how someone at a company receiving the plans for pricing this could think "tour" and leak it.  Obviously we will never know for sure if this was the source of the rumour... but it's a fully designed custom stage with full lighting, someone designed it, sent the plans off, had a quote for the lights, stage Etc had discussions around cost and budget.... |
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Arnaldo Ogre-
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Post by Arnaldo Ogre- on Oct 19, 2024 13:03:43 GMT
One more "believe me, it's true" moment.
In the 80s, Queen and other top acts had their vídeos premiered in prime TV in Brazil, on a show called "Fantástico".
After one of The Miracle vídeos, they showed Brian saying "We'll soon be performing more miracles to you", or something very close to that quote.
Cheers,
Ogre-
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Oct 19, 2024 13:41:58 GMT
I found the one I was talking about; Brian: We have a special project in mind, um.... which we hope will follow on from that, Rather than just making the next video but I don't want to really say too much about it... because, because it might give too much away and we might not pull it off..... Who knows? Roger: It will involve playing live in front of an audience. They mention having just filmed the Breakthru video but it hasn't been released yet. So it's after 1988 fan club appearance. youtu.be/wL5cENRXtZY?t=2162 |
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Post by Queen II 74 on Oct 19, 2024 15:44:29 GMT
One more "believe me, it's true" moment. In the 80s, Queen and other top acts had their vídeos premiered in prime TV in Brazil, on a show called "Fantástico". After one of The Miracle vídeos, they showed Brian saying "We'll soon be performing more miracles to you", or something very close to that quote. Cheers, Ogre- Yes! I saw this video one time, and is not normal appear some Queen video or enterview on brazilian TV. |
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vh
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Post by vh on Oct 19, 2024 16:31:50 GMT
I think emrabt means The Miracle video set Ah, I see the confusion, but case in point; It's very easy to see how someone at a company receiving the plans for pricing this could think "tour" and leak it. Obviously we will never know for sure if this was the source of the rumour... but it's a fully designed custom stage with full lighting, someone designed it, sent the plans off, had a quote for the lights, stage Etc had discussions around cost and budget.... This is a good point and one I hadn’t thought of before. However the production plans for this would have been titled Queen The Miracle Video Shoot and would probably have included the date and shoot location. The other thing about The Miracle video none of this looks like a real stage, as good as the video was/is it would be hard to mistake this for a major stage production. |
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Oct 19, 2024 18:15:49 GMT
Queen were protecting their friend, as it was mentioned in 80-90s HIV was a very difficult situation, they faced fear, racism etc
Moreover the treatment was on very early stages.
They were liars for good reason.
The energetic and high cost videos was a good answer to the press and fans that everything is ok.
The video were played everywhere, especially in Europe and the album sold huge amounts.
Many 80s videos were done with big budget, Queen were not expection.
As many said before, a video is more easy to be done ,for obvious reasons.
No tour was ever planned. Only a promoter from Holland asked them for a big concert. Queen declined.
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bomo
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Post by bomo on Oct 19, 2024 22:07:52 GMT
It's possible some in the record company management would have made preliminary enquiries into a tour should the band have agreed to one. It was the expected cycle. Not sure how much full knowledge of Freddie's illness was given to the record company at that time, or ever.
Record company management would have likely wanted to be prepared in case the band changed their minds. We all know now that they were never going to. But at the time then of course they'd be scouting venues and investigating logistics. As far as they were concerned it was likely just a disinclination that might be changed at any moment.
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Post by Khashoggi on Oct 19, 2024 23:04:25 GMT
I found the one I was talking about; Brian: We have a special project in mind, um.... which we hope will follow on from that, Rather than just making the next video but I don't want to really say too much about it... because, because it might give too much away and we might not pull it off..... Who knows? Roger: It will involve playing live in front of an audience. They mention having just filmed the Breakthru video but it hasn't been released yet. So it's after 1988 fan club appearance. youtu.be/wL5cENRXtZY?t=2162Now this is really interesting. Do you guys think this was a lie from them, as well? To protect Freddie? To me it rather sounds like they were actually planning something.. live in front of an audience. Would be an interesting thing to ask them, for sure. |
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thecrazyworks
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Post by thecrazyworks on Oct 19, 2024 23:06:18 GMT
I think emrabt means The Miracle video set Ah, I see the confusion, but case in point; It's very easy to see how someone at a company receiving the plans for pricing this could think "tour" and leak it. Obviously we will never know for sure if this was the source of the rumour... but it's a fully designed custom stage with full lighting, someone designed it, sent the plans off, had a quote for the lights, stage Etc had discussions around cost and budget.... Look like a Magic Tour reference. I don't see it like a Miracle Tour stage. |
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Post by Khashoggi on Oct 20, 2024 0:22:57 GMT
Ah, I see the confusion, but case in point; It's very easy to see how someone at a company receiving the plans for pricing this could think "tour" and leak it. Obviously we will never know for sure if this was the source of the rumour... but it's a fully designed custom stage with full lighting, someone designed it, sent the plans off, had a quote for the lights, stage Etc had discussions around cost and budget.... Look like a Magic Tour reference. I don't see it like a Miracle Tour stage. Edit: My post was a mistake, so I "deleted it". |
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Oct 20, 2024 4:53:59 GMT
I found the one I was talking about; Brian: We have a special project in mind, um.... which we hope will follow on from that, Rather than just making the next video but I don't want to really say too much about it... because, because it might give too much away and we might not pull it off..... Who knows? Roger: It will involve playing live in front of an audience. They mention having just filmed the Breakthru video but it hasn't been released yet. So it's after 1988 fan club appearance. youtu.be/wL5cENRXtZY?t=2162Now this is really interesting. Do you guys think this was a lie from them, as well? To protect Freddie? To me it rather sounds like they were actually planning something.. live in front of an audience. Would be an interesting thing to ask them, for sure. I think something was planned early in the year, but Freddie's health worsened and things had to be cancelled. Presumably between the breakthru video shoot and Roger & John returning from America. By the time of the BBC Queen for an hour interview it was pretty set that no live stuff was going to happen, every band member was on the same page at that point. |
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Oct 20, 2024 4:54:50 GMT
Ah, I see the confusion, but case in point; It's very easy to see how someone at a company receiving the plans for pricing this could think "tour" and leak it. Obviously we will never know for sure if this was the source of the rumour... but it's a fully designed custom stage with full lighting, someone designed it, sent the plans off, had a quote for the lights, stage Etc had discussions around cost and budget.... Look like a Magic Tour reference. I don't see it like a Miracle Tour stage. It's not the magic tour stage. It's a new set. I think how I'm phrasing things is confusing a few people. My point is that there could possibly have been confusion from the lighting rig and stage building people when they received the early drafts of this (The Miracle Promo video) set. Leading to them leaking to the press about stage plans for a tour, when it wasn't the case. As VH points out up thread, the only hole in this logic is that it should have been clearly labeled as for the video shoot. |
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bomo
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Post by bomo on Oct 20, 2024 8:13:20 GMT
It's possible things went as far as contracting organisations to go as far as make plans to make a lighting rig and build a stage, when almost everyone involved thought the only thing stopping a tour was Freddie's stubbornness and not health related
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Oct 20, 2024 10:13:47 GMT
Queen were protecting their friend, as it was mentioned in 80-90s HIV was a very difficult situation, they faced fear, racism etc Moreover the treatment was on very early stages. They were liars for good reason. The energetic and high cost videos was a good answer to the press and fans that everything is ok. The video were played everywhere, especially in Europe and the album sold huge amounts. Many 80s videos were done with big budget, Queen were not expection. As many said before, a video is more easy to be done ,for obvious reasons. No tour was ever planned. Only a promoter from Holland asked them for a big concert. Queen declined. agreed with almost all of this ^. Just curious about the racism? What would that have to do with Freddie being able/unable to perform? |
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vh
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Post by vh on Oct 20, 2024 10:39:03 GMT
A few pointers as to why the Miracle video stage couldn’t be mistaken for a full scale stage and lighting design.
The stage area is small. There is no space for Freddie’s piano. There is no keyboard area for Spike. There is no available width for Brian and John’s backline.
At stage left there is no space for the monitor/foldback desk.
There is no easy access to the stage for crew members or the band.
Because this is a video shoot the stage (deck) is low. Normally it would be between 4 and 6 ft high (higher for outdoor shows)
There is no evidence in the video (nor would there have to be) of any PA. This would be drawn into any full stage plan. PA wings to build the speaker stacks on for outdoor shows or space either side of the lighting rig to hang the bars to fly PA bins for indoor shows. These would also be visible on any full stage plans.
Lighting wise this rig (in terms of Queen or any arena production) is small. Also it uses PAR 36 Cans (lamps) which in general are not physically big enough or powerful enough to light a big stage. The bulk of every Queen rig was always PAR 64 Cans. The rig is hung very low, 12 maybe 15ft above the stage. At this hight in an arena half the seated audience would be looking down at the top of the lighting rig!
The towers either side of the drums serve no purpose and would hide Roger from the view of a large number of audience members viewing from the seating at the sides of an arena and those standing at floor level on the left and right close to the stage.
Apart from these and a few minor points that I haven’t included it would be obvious to anyone looking at a set of plans what the plans were and I don’t think live production plans could be mistaken for anything else.
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