NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 4, 2020 15:30:46 GMT
Seeing that there has been lots of discussion on this album recently in another thread I want to see what people think of it. I think it's one of those albums where you either love it or hate it. I rarely see it in the middle of fans' lists.
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Post by Sakura4anime25 on Aug 4, 2020 15:54:40 GMT
Personally, I love Innuendo; it's probably in my top 5 Queen albums. I definitely understand how, for many people, it is too difficult and depressing to listen to for obvious reasons. I find it very bittersweet, but in such a beautiful way. I get the feeling from the album that the band was very sad that Freddie's time was coming to an end, but that they were also happy and grateful for the special time that they got to spend together and what they were able to accomplish. I also find it incredible how, even though Freddie was very sick, he sill gave it his all and sang his heart out. Finally, I like how the album brought back some of those "classic" Queen musical elements, such as the big beautiful overdubbed "choirs" that were more common in their 70's music (which I personally prefer).
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 4, 2020 17:04:43 GMT
think the "over/underrated" terminology is a little strange. its "rating" status would surely be the summary of this poll? maybe reword to ♦ a great classic queen LP - ♦ really not that good at all ♦ middle of the pack
FWIW - my own opinion: Jazz was the last "classic Queen" LP, until the return to form of Miracle and Innuendo (80-86 for me, was largely a huge turnoff). I'm not talking about instruments/production etc. Moreover, this is about the Classic Queen Sounds of the 70s, with similar song-writing and arrangements.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 17:23:02 GMT
Great vocals, some lovely guitars, a lot of synths and machines unfortunately.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 4, 2020 17:25:03 GMT
think the "over/underrated" terminology is a little strange. its "rating" status would surely be the summary of this poll? maybe reword to ♦ a great classic queen LP - ♦ really not that good at all ♦ middle of the pack Yes, that would have been a better poll. FWIW, when I first heard the Innuendo single, I thought wow, the band are back on form. But then most of the rest of the album didn't live up to the promise of the single. Funnily enough, the same happened with The Miracle (IWIA) and AKOM (One Vision). All had very strong initial single releases, but other than a handful of tracks, the rest of the albums largely didn't stand up to the strength of the first singles.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 4, 2020 17:39:02 GMT
think the "over/underrated" terminology is a little strange. its "rating" status would surely be the summary of this poll? maybe reword to ♦ a great classic queen LP - ♦ really not that good at all ♦ middle of the pack Yes, that would have been a better poll. Changed, I've redone it.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 4, 2020 19:28:07 GMT
I voted middle, because it's not the worst album they've ever done, but it certainly isn't the best, and it falls into the same group for me as The Miracle and A Kind of Magic. You could probably make one great album out of the three of them.
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Post by macduff77 on Aug 5, 2020 2:56:23 GMT
I voted it a classic album, as it’s one of my favorites, but for me it’s not in the same classic ranking of their early 70s work. But it’s definitely a step up from the 80’s output. If the album was minus Delilah and All God’s People, I would love it even more. Although I do understand the reasoning for their inclusions.
I would have loved to have seen the direction the band would have taken in the 90’s, but alas, it was not to be.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 5, 2020 5:04:13 GMT
Definitely my favourite album. A huge classic in my opinion.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 5, 2020 7:22:21 GMT
I reckon not one song from appears in my Top 30 Queen songs list. The Show Must Go On and Don't Try So Hard are my favourites from this album. There are three songs that I really don't like: All God's People (I've never liked this because I don't understand the point of it, to me just improvisation as the lyrics make no sense), Delilah (some of it is funny but there is already one superior Freddie comedy song with I'm Going Slightly Mad) and The Hitman (the first half is OK but it gets boring as it goes on for too long even the 1991 LP edit for me is that little too long too).
The sound is weird for me on this album (is it because it's too programmed?), lack of acoustic on this album and I don't know how significant this is but hearing more about Queen behind the scenes, this album feels like it's the work of a trio as I don't think John contributed anything significantly to this album apart from help the arrangement of The Hitman and jam with Roger to come up with the chords for The Show Must Go On. By this point it looks like he was unpredictable in the studio and often took holidays, but prove me wrong if you can...
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pg
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Post by pg on Aug 5, 2020 7:23:56 GMT
Since there are at least 6 better albums, it's middle for me.
Queen 1 vs Innuendo starts to get tricky
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Aug 5, 2020 8:42:07 GMT
I'd be hard pressed to put all of Queen's albums in a best-to-worst order, but Innuendo is definitely in my top-5 somewhere, so I voted "a great classic Queen lp". I certainly rank it above all '80s albums (including The Miracle), so in terms of exceeding expectations on the basis of the previous record, it might just be number 1 (or maybe 2, after Queen II).
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 5, 2020 11:19:04 GMT
This is more decisive than I thought it would be. I was expecting it to be more split with the classic and middle options.
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sylvian
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Post by sylvian on Aug 6, 2020 5:53:04 GMT
Personally, speaking, I can't consider this a "classic" LP of theirs because it has quite a lot of middling/so-so material but coupled with some superb songs. It's astounding how impressive of an opening the title track and "Mad" is, then "Headlong" immediately brings things down a notch. It just feels like sometimes following Hot Space, the band often tried too hard to include out-and-out 'rock songs' to satisfy fans, whereas the real meat and actual interesting material often lie with the more esoteric and leftfield material. I find the overbearing presence of programmed drums and a lack of piano to be a real issue with the songs, which leaves the production sounding quite barren, which I suppose fits the themes of the album, but I think could've added a lot more depth and texture to the music. Usually when I listen to the album, I find myself skipping a solid third of the songs because, quite honestly, a lot of them are not up to snuff - but this has been the case with their albums ever since The Game, for me.
My tracklist is as follows:
1. Innuendo 2. I'm Going Slightly Mad 3. Don't Try So Hard 4. These Are The Days of Our Lives (the programmed drums here really bog the mix down, but the song is good enough to overlook that aspect) 5. The Hitman (could use some trimming, but this has one of Mercury's finest vocal performances in my opinion) 6. Bijou (a very, very poignant moment coupled with "TSMGO.") 7. The Show Must Go On
That's 30 and a half minutes out of a 54 minute long record. Not exactly a good thing when a big chunk of the record isn't well worth listening to. For a matter of fact, this only makes me more intrigued at what was left off the album, because I'm fairly confident there's at least one good song there that could've been put in over the likes of "Delilah" or "Ride the Wild Wind."
But in general, I chose ultimately to consider it middle of the pack solely because of the strength of the seven songs selected above.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Aug 8, 2020 7:31:06 GMT
My favorite album along with Queen II and A day at the races.
Sometimes I listen the last three albums together, to me is like a music "trilogy".
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Post by staysweet on Aug 14, 2020 14:27:49 GMT
I feel it is a classic because it gets the band back to its early success, really...meaning it contains a lot of stylistic variety and all of it is appealing. I realize some people won’t like some of the songs, but it was that way early in their careers too, and it doesn’t mean those less popular songs were of a lesser quality (unlike some of the songs on Hot Space or AKOM, in my opinion).
Another credit to it, is returning to their earlier stylistic variety when they are much older. Youth brings that flair of creativity where they can branch out and use different styles to express themselves, yet that is typically much harder to do as you age. So the fact that they could churn out such quality and creativity at that point in their lives makes the album even more amazing.
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Aug 14, 2020 17:32:22 GMT
It feels to me like they spent way less time labouring over the songs/recordings than The Miracle. Which is both a positive (there's still a lot of life in the songs) and a negative (many of them feel undercooked and over long).
I think as they were suddenly more democratic and less inclined to 'guard' their own songs, there was perhaps less individual focus, with notable exceptions. And no wonder John didn't write much/anything, I think there was less room for the way he had worked through the 80s - very carefully controlling/programming his own tracks, or working closely with Freddie, developing his ideas. This might also explain why he was less often in the studio.
It's by far the least 'pop' record they had made since Jazz. But the 'rock' stuff is still over saturated with synths and drum machines (again, with exceptions). Plus I'm not mad keen on the sound overall. The guitars are over processed (Brian was using a digital Zoom box a lot, all the rage in 1990 but sounding very dated very quickly). Everything seems drenched in reverb and delay, particularly Freddie's voice. It feels weird and indistinct, the washes of synth and effects and echo all burying the core band performances.
But it's still a very good Queen album with at least three of their best songs in years and years, if not ever. The guitar and vocal arrangements stand up next to their lauded 70s stuff. In some ways it is the perfect final Queen album. If The Miracle was their last, the general consensus would be that they had been in general decline for about ten years, getting too poppy and lightweight and abandoning their roots. Innuendo redressed the balance.
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rogercz
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Post by rogercz on Aug 14, 2020 18:34:34 GMT
I think as they were suddenly more democratic and less inclined to 'guard' their own songs, there was perhaps less individual focus, with notable exceptions. And no wonder John didn't write much/anything, I think there was less room for the way he had worked through the 80s - very carefully controlling/programming his own tracks, or working closely with Freddie, developing his ideas. This might also explain why he was less often in the studio. Rumour say that John wasn't very much involved, and the band in some frequences used other bass player. David Richards, david, who was supposed to say it, will no longer confirm it.
And which are the three best songs? I guess Innuendo TSMGO and TATDOOL?
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Aug 15, 2020 14:52:57 GMT
I think as they were suddenly more democratic and less inclined to 'guard' their own songs, there was perhaps less individual focus, with notable exceptions. And no wonder John didn't write much/anything, I think there was less room for the way he had worked through the 80s - very carefully controlling/programming his own tracks, or working closely with Freddie, developing his ideas. This might also explain why he was less often in the studio. Rumour say that John wasn't very much involved, and the band in some frequences used other bass player. David Richards, david, who was supposed to say it, will no longer confirm it.
And which are the three best songs? I guess Innuendo TSMGO and TATDOOL?
I've never heard of anyone else ever being involved on bass on Innuendo, that's a rumour that ought to be instantly challenged/quashed! Unless there is evidence.. Regarding John beign often absent, the main source I can think of is Roger's 1990 fan club letter saying "and John is in Biarritz, sorry I mean John is doing his bits". There have been other hints here and there over the years. I think Innuendo, Slightly Mad and Show Must Go On are the best album songs by a mile, and also up there with their all time best. But I do like a lot of the others too. Ride the Wild Wind is very underrated I think.
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rogercz
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Post by rogercz on Aug 15, 2020 16:30:12 GMT
Rumour say that John wasn't very much involved, and the band in some frequences used other bass player. David Richards, david, who was supposed to say it, will no longer confirm it.
And which are the three best songs? I guess Innuendo TSMGO and TATDOOL?
I've never heard of anyone else ever being involved on bass on Innuendo, that's a rumour that ought to be instantly challenged/quashed! Unless there is evidence.. Regarding John beign often absent, the main source I can think of is Roger's 1990 fan club letter saying "and John is in Biarritz, sorry I mean John is doing his bits". There have been other hints here and there over the years. I think Innuendo, Slightly Mad and Show Must Go On are the best album songs by a mile, and also up there with their all time best. But I do like a lot of the others too. Ride the Wild Wind is very underrated I think. Few years ago, i read it in some fb discussion from Mr Scully, who is well known and realiable source. He was told that by Richards himself, but he have no evidence and certainly Scully is not claiming that IS 100% true - he just told us local fans what he heard from Queen's musical engineer during that period. Who knows the truth won't probably never confirm that. But myself, I can only hope that my favourite bass line from TSMGO came from John...
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 15, 2020 17:52:15 GMT
Who knows the truth won't probably never confirm that. But myself, I can only hope that my favourite bass line from TSMGO came from John. it doesn't really matter to me. in the grand scheme of things - it's still a great bassline (and doesn't decrease in quality because of who played it) - be it Deacon, Richards, Entwistle, Glover, or Lemmy. in much the same way that the best bit of guitar playing on the album was Steve Howe's.
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Post by theadmiester on Aug 16, 2020 13:41:49 GMT
I know a lot of people aren't too keen on the keyboard-heavy production, but I personally love it and it's what gave me such an interest in keyboards, specifically the Korg M1.
Here's my song by song review.
Innuendo - I still struggle to describe simply how "epic" this song is. Everything comes together as one fantastic package - a deep meaning, a bunch of different musical styles, a powerful marching sound, and I absolutely adore the guitar riffs for "tread that fine line" and the way the synth repeats it after "whatever will be, will be". Also a fantastic vocal performance, but that goes without saying. One of the greatest songs of all time.
I'm Going Slightly Mad - Not a favourite of mine, but I still enjoy it from time to time. It's a good return to form for the campy, zany Queen.
Headlong - A good driving song with a great drum beat and catchy solo. There's nothing hugely outstanding about it, but it's just a good song through and through.
I Can't Live With You - I much prefer the heavier Rocks Retake, but at its core it's still a great song. Great tone to the vocals, nice harmonies, and "through the madness" always gives me chills.
Don't Try So Hard - Absolutely stratospheric vocals here, one of Freddie's top performances. It gets very similar to Who Wants To Live Forever in the bridge, and the "what a beautiful world" section is, no pun intended, beautiful.
Ride the Wild Wind - One of my favourites on the album, and one of the best driving songs I've ever heard. The drumbeat is great, the distorted keyboards are great, and this is one of Brian's greatest solos in my opinion as his tone is just perfect. Extra points from this car guy for having one of the best sounding cars in it too - a Quattro S1 rally car.
All God's People - This one I sort of ebb and flow with, not always particularly feeling it but always a good vocal delivery.
These Are the Days of Our Lives - Another beautiful touching piece, even the guitar solo manages to sound just as sorrowful as the lyrics. Very bittersweet, and so powerful that it's sometimes hard to listen to.
Delilah - One I'm not a fan of, but I can appreciate it in the context of it giving Freddie some joy at the time.
The Hitman - I always saw this one as a preview of Queen if they continued into the 90s. Their take on a mix of grunge and metal is really catchy. The ending is too drawn out but I love the delivery and power behind the "love me baby" section.
Bijou - Again, sad and beautiful. This is probably one of the songs that keyboards add the most to. Great playing from Brian on the guitar, and the soft strings in the vocal section give it extra power.
The Show Must Go On - This really needs no introduction. This is a contender to Innuendo for being one of the most mindblowing, masterfully crafted songs I know of. Not every band gets to make a song like this, and for Queen to have two on the same album really tells you all you need to know about them. The "my soul is painted" section is my highlight, so soft and beautiful.
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nickip
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Post by nickip on Aug 16, 2020 21:32:15 GMT
The "my soul is painted" section is my highlight, so soft and beautiful. When my firstborn daughter died in ‘93 just after she was born those words gave me enormous comfort. In the days when you could email Brian, around 2004, I told him about this. He replied with humility and kindness. I don’t have any printed copy of the correspondence but actually I don’t care. I got to thank one of my heroes for being a part of my memories of my daughter’s short life. And one of my heroes got to learn about my kid’s short life. No point to the story other than to say that TSMGO was played at my daughter’s funeral. And one day - when I summon up the nerve - I will get those words tattooed onto me in the shape of her footprint.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 17, 2020 14:04:03 GMT
When my firstborn daughter died in ‘93 just after she was born those words gave me enormous comfort. In the days when you could email Brian, around 2004, I told him about this. He replied with humility and kindness. I don’t have any printed copy of the correspondence but actually I don’t care. I got to thank one of my heroes for being a part of my memories of my daughter’s short life. And one of my heroes got to learn about my kid’s short life. No point to the story other than to say that TSMGO was played at my daughter’s funeral. And one day - when I summon up the nerve - I will get those words tattooed onto me in the shape of her footprint. is that "nerve" to get a tattoo? or "nerve" for the pain of the process? i got one as a tribute to my dad and my brother - 11 years ago. seriously, anything that helps get you through it, is always worth it.
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Post by Chopin1995 on Aug 18, 2020 13:07:34 GMT
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 18, 2020 13:15:21 GMT
I read this yesterday, it's interesting how he doesn't mention John. Perhaps John wasn't there as by this point he wasn't contributing significantly to the lyrics and music, often taking holidays instead.
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Post by Chopin1995 on Aug 18, 2020 13:27:42 GMT
Indeed. They were playing him the entire album so it happened in autumn 1990 probably. I assume there wasn't a lot to do in the studio for John at that point.
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Post by seed0frhye on Aug 20, 2020 19:24:03 GMT
I chose "a great classic queen LP". In ordinary case (if Freddie wasn't dying from AIDS) it may would not become as their best. Like every Queen album Innuendo got its fillers (e.g. "Hitman", "Bijou", "Delilah" (though even them got beautiful moments and findings). But you can almost hear how Fred has been giving every single breath, every drop of strength to vocal performances on every song there. He literary cut the music out of his vocal cords, from his body. Real swan song...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2020 13:13:39 GMT
Indeed. They were playing him the entire album so it happened in autumn 1990 probably. I assume there wasn't a lot to do in the studio for John at that point. The song was mastered in September 1990 so it's unlikely. My personal hypothesis (which I cannot prove) is that Stephen got involved in the May - June 1990 period, which was their second (and last) batch of sessions in Switzerland (where his involvement took place) and which is enough time after the beginning of the recordings (November 1989) to at least have working versions of all or most of the tracks, enough to show them to him.
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Post by Chopin1995 on Aug 28, 2020 12:54:27 GMT
Indeed. They were playing him the entire album so it happened in autumn 1990 probably. I assume there wasn't a lot to do in the studio for John at that point. The song was mastered in September 1990 so it's unlikely. My personal hypothesis (which I cannot prove) is that Stephen got involved in the May - June 1990 period, which was their second (and last) batch of sessions in Switzerland (where his involvement took place) and which is enough time after the beginning of the recordings (November 1989) to at least have working versions of all or most of the tracks, enough to show them to him. I completely forgot about the date of the 2nd part of recording sessions in Montreux. I assume you go by that 'Innuendo BTT experience' thread on the old board where those dates were mentioned. If that's true then of course it happened in May - June.
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