NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 26, 2020 21:59:41 GMT
I don't know whether this has been mentioned before but here goes...
I was listening to a live version earlier and during it I was thinking about the lyrics. Having seen much recently about how depressed John was in the 1980s because of Queen arguably I Want To Break Free is symbolic for that reason, I thought that this idea could be applied to If You Can't Beat Them. The thing which makes me doubtful is that I haven't heard anything negative about John's mental state in the 1970s.
"Keep your chin up when you're feelin' lonely/Don't let them get you down" - them could apply to the rest of the band. Is it because how he stepped away from all the big arguments from the rest of the group hence making him feel lonely.
"Ain't no use in your sitting all alone/Hangin' around for someone to call" - could this be in the studio? Sitting around waiting to be required either in playing bass or producing. Jazz had Roy Thomas Baker producing again so duties wise Queen wouldn't have had as much as responsibility as on the last two albums (A Day At The Races and News Of The World). And having seen early tracklistings for Jazz, IYCBT isn't on them presumably making this one of the album's later recordings. If true, the lyrical content could be about John's experience making the album. John didn't want to talk about the album in an interview with Music Life in 1984, he only said throw it in a garbage bin suggesting he didn't have a positive experience.
The second verse is harder for me to analyse but as Jazz was the first album to be recorded outside the UK due to the huge taxes bands were having to pay, "Keep your fingers off my money/
Don't try and pull me down". Later on in the verse, "Invite me to your little contract" could be referring to Queen's experiences with the Sheffield brothers as John said that Queen were "badly handled".
Let me know what you think whether I'm on to something or whether it's complete garbage due to being too analytical. Be honest!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 22:09:00 GMT
Which early tracklistings do you mean?
As for your thesis, you may be on to something. Keep digging!
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 26, 2020 22:12:48 GMT
I've no evidence either way but I'm slightly skeptical that John was as unhappy in the band as is sometimes perceived. Just because he was the quieter one and stayed out of the handbag throwing, doesn't necessarily mean he was 'lonely', just that he preferred to let the others get on with it at times.
Sure, that might have provoked some frustrations, but I can't see why he would have stayed with the band all those years if he wasn't happy with what he was doing. He certainly could have retired at any time in the 80s and still would have had a healthy income, or could have got a job with another band. His bass playing was largely faultless so I don't think he would ever have been involuntarily out of work.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Aug 27, 2020 8:00:12 GMT
These are two intersting posts from QZ : Posters Holly 2003 and Jimmy Dean Keep your big hands off my money Don't try and pull me down You're taking me out to wine and dine me Trying to wind me 'round and around And bind me to your legal contract (Ha! Ha!) Rumour has it that you can play it dirty I'll tell you what I'll do about that, that yeah! I'll play you at your own game! We know Do2L was Fred's response to the Norman Sheffield/Trident contract, but was If You Can't Beat Them Deakie's take on that? ps I think the title should've been If You Can't Join Them, Beat Them  Actually, the lyrics specifically mention that they were beat... "don't try to pull me down"..."you're taking me out to wine and dine me "..."and bind me to your legal contract".... all this is to say that they were taken advantage or about to be taken advantage of... ie. "if you can't beat them"... when he says... "Rumour has it that you can play it dirty I'll tell you what I'll do about that, that yeah! I'll play you at your own game!"... he saying that instead putting a stop to be taken advantage of the honorable way... i'll also play dirty and do what i can to not be taken advantage of the dishonorable way.... the "joining" was not meant to be like joining a team.. but rather joining in terms of commonality. what they have in common is that they will "play dirty" and take advantage of each other. |
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BrƎИsꓘi
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They called it paradise, I don't know why...You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 27, 2020 8:46:50 GMT
the interpretations of the song do make a lot of sense, but i'd say this was more about John's asserting himself within the band. John (after wanting to have money for an advance to buy a house), more or less became the one to take a proper business interest in the band. The "Quiet One" became the financial representative of the four. This was his way of quietly letting the world know he stood up for the band.
Freddie's DO2L had all the acid of someone right in the middle of a row.
John's IYCBT was a reflective (calmer, post-event) perspective of the same break up with management. The lyrics are more considered, with lines more akin to simile, rather than the hyperbole and metaphor of DO2L.
some quotes from Freddie that pertain to/confirm this:
"We had best-selling albums but we were still loving in crummy basement flats on fifty pounds a week."
"John Deacon kept a very close eye on all our business affairs. He knew everything that should and shouldn't be going on."
"If God had forsaken us, the rest of the group wouldn't do anything unless John said it was alright."
"He's sort of quiet, lots of people think that, but don't underestimate him, he's got a fiery streak under all that. "
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 27, 2020 20:10:19 GMT
Which early tracklistings do you mean? As for your thesis, you may be on to something. Keep digging! There was one tracklisting I saw featured in a book but I had but looking online there is one in the same order except that If You Can't Beat Them is on it. As I've heard before some with neither IYCBT or In Only Seven Days on them but in their place a song called Don't Say No. |
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Aug 27, 2020 20:34:00 GMT
Another song is Pain Is So Close To Pleasure. As we know this is a co-write with John and Freddie. But I have always thought (probably because I read it somewhere) that it is a John song and that Freddie arranged it to improve it. Probably in a similar way to Freddie's contribution to Radio Ga Ga and A Kind Of Magic.
"One day we love each other then we're fighting one another all the time" - I think this one is pretty obvious really, Queen fought regularly especially in the studio. I think John got quite low probably wondering what he was achieving to make up because of this.
There's more in the first verse where it could imply his recollection of Queen in the old days when he was younger whilst juggling his personal life. He didn't know how successful Queen would be and it's always been said success brings drawbacks.
The second verse is very mysterious as a lot could be applied to it but one thing which sticks out is this bit: "Some days you're feeling good, some days you're feeling bad/But if you're feeling happy someone else is always sad". The song was written or at least recorded after Live Aid, so how did John respond to Queen's success at Live Aid? He probably would've been really happy but there could be mixed feelings on that as that would've been working with Queen which given the hints prior to this song made him unhappy. After Live Aid when Queen went back in to the studio, John was "on holiday". Surely after the high of Live Aid surely he would've been desperate to reunite as the rest of Queen were?
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Post by martinpacker on Aug 28, 2020 9:31:54 GMT
I wonder if the cliché "If you can't beat'em, join'em" was what started it. The song might simply be spun up from that, without any real-life relevance.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Aug 30, 2020 12:41:16 GMT
I wonder if the cliché "If you can't beat'em, join'em" was what started it. The song might simply be spun up from that, without any real-life relevance. That was my assumption as well. It just always seemed like a fun rocker from John, which was a rare occurrence. But after reading some of the thoughts here, I'm slightly more inclined to say it was in reference to the Norman Sheffield/Trident contract. Would love to hear from the band about this one. |
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