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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 0:35:29 GMT
In order not to hijack the other thread, I'm starting a new one here. There are two oft-repeated urban legends regarding Queen/Frederick and pianos: - 'Bohemian Rhapsody' having been recorded using the same piano as 'Hey Jude'.
- Frederick having extensively used a Fazioli at Metropolis Studios in Chiswick.
Both 'Hey Jude' and 'Bohemian Rhapsody' featured Bechstein pianos of similar sizes and rented from Jaques Samuel on Edgware Road, London. The main difference was that the 'Hey Jude' one was black and the 'Bohemian Rhapsody' one was white. Frederick (and Brian) used the 'Hey Jude' piano several times, but not on 'Bohemian Rhapsody'. There's a third Bechstein that Queen used a lot: a brown one at Wessex (it can be seen in the video of 'Somebody to Love').
As for the Fazioli: it can be seen in the making of the Rock Aid Armenia cover of 'Smoke on the Water', played by (IIRC) Keith Emerson. It's often claimed Frederick bought it for Metropolis but Justin Shirley-Smith and Noel Harris directly debunked that on Saturday the 30th of September 2017 at the Back to the Tapes event which took place at Metropolis. The Fazioli is still there, of course, but they (who, unlike any of us, were actually there at the time) categorically denied the story to be true. Quite the contrary, actually: reportedly, Frederick didn't like the sound of the piano and arranged for his own Steinway (the one he'd used on tour) to be moved there during their recording sessions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 11:05:21 GMT
Part I: OverviewUnlike guitars, bass, drums or woodwind and brass instruments, piano players aren't expected to take their instrument with them, instead relying on whatever the venue's got. Queen also did that in the 1974 - 1976 period, using either what concert organisers managed to get them, or whatever the venue already had, or in some special cases renting one (e.g. Hammersmith and Hyde Park both feature the famous white Bechstein). The first time they toured with a piano was A Day at the Races in 1977: they'd borrowed a Steinway from Elton John, and it subsequently got into an accident so they had to swiftly rent one. Frederick bought another Steinway (a 1972 NY model) in November 1977 and that's the piano used from then on for every single Queen concert. Touring with one's own piano makes sense, especially for large venues, as that shrinks the odds of tuning or toning issues for the performer(s). People such as Elton John and Frederick Mercury were wealthy enough to afford transporting their pianos as there already were tons of equipment requiring a dozen trucks or so, and one more wouldn't make a massive difference. It's different for classically-trained concert pianists such as Barenboim or Lang Lang as they tend to only play venues which are largely used for those types of concerts and therefore tend to keep their pianos in the best possible condition, which wouldn't necessarily be the case for sports arenas or MP halls which pop/rock artists tend to perform at. In the studio, especially in those years, it'd be a similar case to classical venues: places like EMI Studios on Abbey Road would be expected to do regular maintenance to their pianos and they were already there, already placed at the right position for optimal acoustics, the engineers knew how to mic them and what to use, so in most cases whoever recorded there (The Beatles, Pink Floyd, etc) would use the studio house piano, rather than bringing their own. Imagine the costs and troubles moving the studio's Steinway out of the way and then having a truck move a different piano from, say, McCartney's house, and then bringing it into the studio (which in some cases could involve stairs or lifts, good luck with that!), and then having to return it at the end of the session. It wasn't unheard of and there were a few times in which Queen did just that, but it'd be difficult and quite expensive so those who did it usually had a good enough reason to invest all that time, money and effort. Queen would, therefore, bring their own piano (or one they'd rented from elsewhere) in the following scenarios: - The studio had no house piano: Some recording facilities wouldn't make such an investment and instead simply rent one whenever it was required. That was Trident's case as well, by the way, though they eventually did purchase the black 'Hey Jude' Bechstein but that'd be long after the Queen days.
- The studio was massively large and Queen were going to stay there for a while: That's a possibility for the likes of Rockfield in Wales and The Manor in England (both residential countryside studios), as the band (mostly Frederick, but also Brian) could be keen on a particular piano sound and they were moving tons of equipment anyway (trucks loaded with guitars, drums, the gong, amps, personal effects, clothing as they were also staying there for a few weeks).
- The studio did have a piano, but the band didn't like the sound: That wouldn't have been an option in the early days as they wouldn't have had the money, but later on they would. There are two documented instances of Frederick doing that, once in a recording studio (Metropolis, rendering the Fazioli myth as even more of a myth) and once in a hotel where he was staying in New York.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 11:23:25 GMT
Part II: An Album OverviewPlease keep in mind this is incomplete and not necessarily accurate. More information is revealed every once in a while leading me to re-think or unlearn/re-learn a lot. - Queen & Queen II: The black 'Hey Jude' Bechstein at Trident, except on the second 'Seven Seas of Rhye' which clearly sounds jangle.
- Sheer Heart Attack: Possibly the pianos available at Rockfield, Air, Wessex and Trident, depending on the song.
- A Night at the Opera: A white Bechstein rented for the recording sessions (hence Frederick being credited for 'Vocals, vocals, Bechstein Debauchery and more vocals!'). A Bechstein, but not the 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- A Day at the Races: Possibly a white Bechstein at The Manor (though The Manor had their own piano), a brown Bechstein at Wessex (it can be seen in the video of 'Somebody to Love') and either a Steinway or a Bosendorfer at Sarm.
- News of the World: Possibly a black Steinway at Basing Street and a Bosendorfer at Wessex (Wessex had a Bechstein up until 1976 and then switched to a Bose).
- Jazz: Frederick's touring Steinway at Mountain (the studios didn't have an in-house piano back then) and a Bechstein at Super Bear (someone who worked there told me they rented it specifically for Frederick, and also rented a Bosendorfer for Elton John around those years).
- The Game: The in-house piano at Musicland was reportedly a Yamaha C-7B. More on that later.
- Flash Gordon: Brian's confirmed to have recorded the title track at The Town House. The problem is, there was Town House 1, Town House 2, Town House 3. Two of them had Steinway pianos, the other had a Bosendorfer. No idea which one he used.
- Hot Space: By then Queen had purchased Mountain and reportedly bought another Steinway (not the touring one) for the studios; and, at Musicland, the Yamaha, theoretically.
- The Works: I read the Record Plant also had a Yamaha back then but can't find the source now... and, also, there'd be more than one studio and therefore more than one piano; the Yamaha at Musicland assuming they hadn't switched it for something else.
- A Kind of Magic: Depending on wherever they recorded as the album was done at Musicland, Mountain, Town House, Maison Rouge, Sarm West, EMI (aka Abbey Road) and even Trident!
- The Miracle: Whatever they had at The Town House, Mountain and Olympic.
- Innuendo: Frederick's Steinway at Metropolis (instead of the Fazioli often claimed to have been his or frequently used by him), another Steinway (a West German model, not American) at Mountain.
- Made in Heaven: The pianos came from recording sessions which took place in Munich between 1980 and 1984, and in Los Angeles in September 1983.
- List item 15
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 11:37:42 GMT
Part III: Bechstein PianosBechstein is the piano make most closely associated with early Queen albums, and with good reason. There were at least three important Bechstein grand pianos they used: The black 'Hey Jude' Bechstein at Trident, pictured here in the inner sleeve of Peter Hammill's 1971 album Fool's Mate. Judging by the photograph and assuming Mr Hammill's got average or slightly-above-average height, I'd say it's possibly a V model (6 ft 7 in or 2 metres), which was also the one most frequently built in the late 19th century. Beatles books and websites often claim its Serial No was 44064 and its Bracing No was 11870, which would mean it was made in 1898 ( source). A Billboard inventory published in June 1972 claims Trident had a Steinway, which could've been a mistake or perhaps not... actually, they didn't own a piano so they'd rent, and perhaps when that list was compiled they happened to have rented a Steinway instead due to client's instructions or perhaps the Bechstein wasn't available. The Bechstein was rented from Jaques Samuel which, as those who've been in London probably know, is located quite nearby from where Trident Studios used to be. It was, therefore, most likely used on the following Queen and Queen-related records: - Doing All Right
- Father to Son
- Funny How Love Is
- God Save the Queen
- Going Back
- Jesus
- My Fairy King
- Nevermore
- Seven Seas of Rhye (the first one)
- The Fairy Feller's Master-Stroke
- The March of the Black Queen
Notably not on the second 'Seven Seas of Rhye', as the stems clearly reveal it was a jangle piano instead (a jangle piano is an upright piano, it's possible Trident had one of those as well and for some reason Frederick felt that sound was a better fit for that specific song).
The list above refers to confirmed or nearly confirmed cases. There's a few hypothetical ones as well, such as 'Now I'm Here', which according to As It Began was the last piece Brian wrote for the album, and in that case it's not a stretch to think they could've recorded it during mixing stages (which were at Trident) and, therefore, Brian would've played the black Bechstein again. The rest of Sheer Heart Attack pianos are strongly suspected, though not by any means 100% confirmed, to have been recorded at either Rockfield or Wessex.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 11:54:58 GMT
A second Bechstein was the famous white one. Judging by this photo and considering Frederick's of 5 ft 10 in (1.77 metres), then I'd say this is probably a V model again (same as the 'Hey Jude' one). It was also hired from Jaques Samuel in London and it's been documented in the following instances: - Rehearsals at the Ridge Farm in Surrey in both 1975 and 1976 - the Ridge Farm bought their own piano, reportedly, in 1976, shortly after Queen's visit.
- Promotional videos for both 'Bohemian Rhapsody' and 'You're My Best Friend'.
- Concerts at the Hammersmith Odeon in 1975 and Hyde Park in 1976.
The photo from which the first album cover stemmed also featured a white piano, and given the Trident connexions with Jaques Samuel it's possible that it was the same one, but not by any means confirmed: London's a huge city and there's likely to have been more than one white piano.
Contrary to what many people (myself included) thought at some point, they did not rent it for the entirety of the British Opera tour, only for the Xmas Eve gig.
A white piano was rented to be shown at Rockfield in 2004 for the 'Bohemian Rhapsody' documentary, but Brian admitted (in late 2004, IIRC) that it wasn't the same one. They seemed to have rented it just to match the colour.
Rockfield had, as far as I know, a Bosendorfer and a Yamaha, but it's possible Frederick did use the white Bechstein (renting it in London and having it moved to Wales via truck). The backing tracks were done in Wales according to Roger (Beat Instrumental, published in October 1975), which would imply the white Bechstein was used on:
- 'Bohemian Rhapsody'.
- 'Death on Two Legs', except for the intro.
- 'I'm in Love with My Car'.
- 'Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon'.
- 'Love of My Life'.
- 'Seaside Rendezvous'.
Considering the white Bechstein can be seen at both the video shoot for 'You're My Best Friend' and the famous concert at Hyde Park, there's the question of whether they block-booked it for the May - August period or, also quite likely, if they rented just for the Ridge Farm rehearsals (which is when the 'Best Friend' video was shot) and then for the Hyde Park gig, and that in-between they simply used the in-house pianos at The Manor, Sarm and Wessex for the record.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 12:05:52 GMT
The third Bechstein is this dark-brown one which was housed at Wessex at least until November 1976. It looks almost black here because of lighting and balance. The alternative version of the 'Somebody to Love' video very briefly shows it from an angle from which, pausing at the right time and moving the balance a bit, the Bechstein brand can be read on top of the keyboard. This is the same piano at the same studios when the Sex Pistols first visited them, which was also when both bands first met. I'm not a Pistols expert but it looks like it was the pre-Vicious days, therefore 1976 rather than 1977. Besides the video, it's not known for sure if it can be heard on any Queen record. Granted, Queen did loads of overdubs for both Sheer Heart Attack and A Day at the Races at Wessex, but the piano parts could've been recorded earlier on at Rockfield and The Manor, respectively. Still, if there was any song they did entirely at Wessex (e.g. 'Dear Friends', hypothetically) or a specific piano overdub or correction, then it could've been played on this one. Wessex changed the Bechstein for a large Bosendorfer at some point. There's a story about The Clash pouring wine on the Bosendorfer which is supposed to have taken place in 1979 (earlier Clash albums weren't done there). In other words, we know the piano was a Bechstein between 1972 ( Billboard inventory) and 1976 ('Somebody to Love' video and Sex Pistols photo) and a Bosendorfer in 1979. What about 1977 - 1978? No idea! A fourth key Bechstein was the one Super Bear Studios in France hired for Queen's visit in 1978. Considering they'd already done the backing tracks at Mountain in Switzerland, it's unlikely the Bechstein featured anywhere on Jazz, unless they happened to add some piano overdubs at a later stage (e.g. on something like 'Let Me Entertain You').
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 12:23:06 GMT
Part IV: YamahaFrederick liked Yamaha pianos ( International Musician & Recording World, published in November 1982) and had a beautiful baby grand at Garden Lodge, which I assume Mary Austin inherited with the house. It wouldn't have been used on any Queen record as such, but he reportedly composed many songs on it including 'Bohemian Rhapsody'. The piano at Musicland Studios in Munich was reportedly a Yamaha C-7B, as listed in a studio flyer which I personally suspect is from the mid-to-late seventies as it mentions a 16-track Studer tape recorder and they were 24-track-equipped by the time Queen first went there (comments by Justin Shirley-Smith on the 5.1 remixes state the original version of The Game was 24-track analogue). The liner notes from the 1977 album Out of the Blue by the Electric Light Orchestra (which was recorded at Musicland) list the piano as a Yamaha C-7B. If it was the studio piano then that's further confirmation, and if the piano wasn't changed in all those years then that's the one Frederick and Brian (and perhaps John and Roger as well) used on what they recorded in those years, which would include: - 'Action This Day'.
- 'Another One Bites the Dust'.
- 'Butterfly' (the piece Brian's playing at the beginning of the 'One Vision' documentary).
- 'Don't Try Suicide'.
- 'Football Fight' (demo).
- 'It's a Beautiful Day'.
- 'Keep Passing the Open Windows'.
- 'Life Is Real'.
- 'Play the Game'.
- 'Sail Away Sweet Sister'.
- 'Save Me'.
- 'The Kiss' (demo).
And the entirety of Mr Bad Guy including the two tracks that ended up on Made in Heaven. It could've also been used (not confirmed, but suspected) on: - 'Friends Will Be Friends', assuming the piano was added in Munich (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't).
- 'Las Palabras de Amor', assuming the piano was overdubbed later and not part of the backing track (which was at Mountain in Switzerland).
- 'Pain Is So Close to Pleasure', assuming the piano was added in Munich (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't).
- 'Princes of the Universe', assuming the piano was added in Munich (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't).
A photo of Brian at Musicland seems to confirm they still had the Yamaha in 1985. So, assuming it was the same piano from 1977 to 1985 and that it wasn't changed in-between and then back, then it was used for most Queen-related Munich activities. Musicland also had a Sauter upright, a Fender electric, and a Hohner clavinet. The piano at Scorpio in 1975 was also a Yamaha, and Frederick was photographed playing it but it was most likely just to give them the pitch for the vocal overdubs, rather than actually featuring said piano on the album. Rockfield did have a Yamaha at some point (as well as a Bosendorfer), so it's possible (though not by any means confirmed) it may have been used on some Sheer Heart Attack tracks such as 'Tenement Funster' or 'Flick of the Wrist', though not necessarily.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 12:47:02 GMT
Part V: SteinwaySteinway is by far the most successful piano maker in the world and loads of their pianos (some made in Hamburg, some made in New York) are housed by studios all over the world, including: - Basing Street.
- De Lane Lea Music Centre (they had three pianos: Steinway, Bechstein and Bosendorfer).
- EMI (aka Abbey Road).
- Lansdowne.
- Olympic.
- Roundhouse.
- Sarm, at least in 1975 (it was swapped at some point for a Bosendorfer, but I've no idea if that was before, during or after the Queen days).
- The Town House (they had, reportedly, two Steinways and a Bosendorfer).
It's possible, therefore, that the following Queen and Queen-adjacent projects used some of those Steinways (which they didn't own but which were available at the studios):
- 'All Dead, All Dead'.
- 'All God's People' (probably, quite likely).
- 'Breakthru' (depending on where it was recorded).
- 'Death on Two Legs' (intro).
- 'Delilah' (depending on where it was recorded).
- 'Flash's Theme' (if Brian played it on a Steinway and not a Bosendorfer, which hasn't been confirmed).
- 'Forever' (possibly, but not confirmed).
- 'Get Down, Make Love' (if the piano was done at Basing Street instead of Wessex - which is 50/50 according to available evidence).
- 'Hang on in There' (depending on where it was recorded).
- 'Party' (depending on where it was recorded).
- 'Spread Your Wings'.
- 'The Man from Manhattan'.
- 'The Miracle' (depending on where it was recorded).
- 'We Are the Champions' (assuming the piano was done at Basing Street and not Wessex).
There are at least two Steinway pianos which the band owned: - The 1972 New York model, D size (8 ft 11 3/4 in).
- A Hamburg model, possibly B size (6 ft 11 in).
The New York one was the one Frederick (and sometimes Brian, Morgan, Philip and the other Frederick) used on stage since November 1977 and which is reportedly now in Brian's house. That one was used on Jazz because at that point the studios didn't have a piano, so Queen brought their own. It was also taken to Metropolis while Queen were there because they reportedly hadn't been satisfied with the sound of the studio piano. The Hamburg one was housed at Mountain Studios when Queen owned them. Queen bought the studios around summer 1979 (probably during or right after having mixed Live Killers there) but it's not known when exactly they put the piano in there. Assuming it was in or before 1980, then it was featured on several Queen and Queen-related records as well as works by other artists such as Bowie and many others. Queen and Queen-related records featuring that Hamburg-made piano may include: - 'Breakthru' (depending on where it was recorded).
- 'Delilah' (depending on whether the piano overdubs were in England or Switzerland).
- 'Hang on in There' (depending on where it was recorded).
- 'Headlong'.
- 'Innuendo' (demo).
- 'Las Palabras de Amor' (in case the piano was in Switzerland rather than West Germany).
- 'Party' (depending on where it was recorded).
- 'The Miracle' (depending on where it was recorded).
- 'Under Pressure' (as well as 'Feel Like', of course).
Plus any piano bits on Roger's first two solo albums... and the latter ones as well since he took the Steinway to Cosford Mill (and then his other studio) after they sold Mountain to David Richards in 1993. It's also known (thanks to Barry Promane's PhD dissertation) that a Steinway was moved to The Town House during the Barcelona sessions. That could've been Frederick's touring piano, or Michael Moran's own, or something else.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 12:56:27 GMT
Part VI: BosendorferFrederick used a Bosendorfer when rehearsing at Shepperton Studios. As for actual Queen or Queen-related recordings, some of the studios they used had Bosendorfer pianos, including: - Advision.
- De Lane Lea Music Centre (alongside a Bechstein and a Steinway).
- Lansdowne (possibly - they had a Steinway at some point and also a Bosendorfer at some point).
- Rockfield (alongside a Yamaha).
- Sarm (possibly, but not confirmed - I mean, they did have a Bosendorfer at some point, but that could've been after Queen's last visit).
- The Town House (one Bosendorfer and two Steinway's).
- Wessex (same case as Sarm).
That leaves quite a few possibilities, none of which have been confirmed, including some songs on Sheer Heart Attack, A Night at the Opera, A Day at the Races, News of the World, Flash Gordon, A Kind of Magic and The Miracle.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 13:00:49 GMT
Part VII: The Record PlantTen or so years ago I read a Record Plant inventory from the early eighties listing a Yamaha, leading me to conclude that's the piano used on most of The Works ('Keep Passing the Open Windows' being an exception) and 'Let Me Live'. I can't find the source now, and I was silly enough not to save it. Whatever it was, it was probably used on: - 'It's a Hard Life'.
- 'Let Me in Your Heart Again'.
- 'Let Me Live'.
- 'Man on the Prowl'.
- 'Radio Ga Ga', assuming the piano overdubs were in Los Angeles instead of Munich.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 13:21:35 GMT
Part IX: A Comprehensive Tack-by-Track List (to be taken with a massive pinch of salt, please!)These ones are more or less confirmed; not 100%, of course, as I wasn't there, and even those who were there may forget or misremember: - 'A Human Body': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Action This Day': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'All Dead, All Dead': The Basing Street Steinway.
- 'Another One Bites the Dust': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Bicycle Race': The touring Steinway.
- 'Bohemian Rhapsody': The white Bechstein.
- 'Butterfly': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Death on Two Legs' (except the intro): The white Bechstein.
- 'Doing All Right': The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'Don't Stop Me Now': The touring Steinway.
- 'Don't Try Suicide': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Father to Son': The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'Football Fight' (demo): The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'God Save the Queen': The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'Going Back': The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'Headlong': The Hamburg-made Mountain Steinway.
- 'I Was Born to Love You': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'I'm in Love with My Car': The white Bechstein.
- 'In Only Seven Days': The touring Steinway.
- 'Innuendo' (demo): The Hamburg-made Mountain Steinway.
- 'It's a Beautiful Day': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'It's a Hard Life': The Record Plant Yamaha.
- 'Jealousy': The touring Steinway.
- 'Jesus': The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'Keep Passing the Open Windows': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon': The white Bechstein.
- 'Let Me in Your Heart Again': The Record Plant Yamaha.
- 'Let Me Live': The Record Plant Yamaha.
- 'Life Is Real': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Love of My Life': The white Bechstein.
- 'Made in Heaven': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Man on the Prowl': The Record Plant Yamaha.
- 'Mustapha': The touring Steinway.
- 'My Fairy King': The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'Nevermore': The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'Play the Game': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Sail Away Sweet Sister': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Save Me': The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Seaside Rendezvous': The white Bechstein (alongside a jangle one).
- 'Seven Seas of Rhye' (debut album version): The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'Spread Your Wings': The Basing Street Steinway.
- 'Step on Me': The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'The Fairy Feller's Master-Stroke': The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'The Kiss' (demo): The Musicland Yamaha.
- 'The March of the Black Queen': The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein.
- 'The Man from Manhattan': Sarm's Steinway.
- 'Under Pressure' (plus 'Feel Like'): The Hamburg-made Mountain Steinway.
Plus everything on Frederick's first and only solo album including outtakes and rejected tracks: The Musicland Yamaha.
Everything on Roger's solo albums except for 'Foreign Sand': The Hamburg-made Steinway, first housed at Mountain and then owned by Roger himself.
Most of Barcelona was done on a Steinway, but not necessarily all of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 13:26:02 GMT
The following are quite likely to be one of two options: - 'All God's People': Either one of the two Town House Steinway's or the Town House Bosendorfer.
- 'Delilah': Either the touring Steinway or the Mountain Steinway.
- 'Flash's Theme': Either one of the two Town House Steinway's or the Town House Bosendorfer.
- 'Forever': Either one of the two Town House Steinway's or the Town House Bosendorfer... or perhaps an Abbey Road Steinway, for that matter!
- 'Las Palabras de Amor': Either the Musicland Yamaha or the Mountain Steinway.
- 'Let Me Entertain You': Either the touring Steinway or the Super Bear Bechstein.
- 'Radio Ga Ga': Either the Record Plant Yamaha or the Musicland Yamaha.
- 'The Great Pretender': Either one of the two Town House Steinway's or the Town House Bosendorfer - unless the piano was recorded at Michael Moran's house.
The following are a bit trickier to pin down due to the circumstances:
- 'Death on Two Legs' (intro): Possibly the Sarm Steinway, but not necessarily.
- 'Flick of the Wrist': Possibly either one of the Rockfield pianos (Yamaha and Bosendorfer), but also perhaps something else hired for the occasion (e.g. the white Bechstein).
- 'Get Down, Make Love': Either the Basing Street Steinway or whatever they had at Wessex (either a Bechstein or a Bosendorfer depending on when the swap took place).
- 'Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy': Probably the in-house piano at The Manor (whatever that was), but also possibly something else hired for the sessions (e.g. the white Bechstein).
- 'In the Lap of the Gods... Revisited': Possibly either one of the Rockfield pianos (Yamaha and Bosendorfer), but also perhaps something else hired for the occasion (e.g. the white Bechstein).
- 'It's Late': Either the Basing Street Steinway or whatever they had at Wessex (either a Bechstein or a Bosendorfer depending on when the swap took place).
- 'My Melancholy Blues': Either the Basing Street Steinway or whatever they had at Wessex (either a Bechstein or a Bosendorfer depending on when the swap took place).
- 'Tenement Funster': Possibly either one of the Rockfield pianos (Yamaha and Bosendorfer), but also perhaps something else hired for the occasion (e.g. the white Bechstein).
- 'The Millionaire Waltz': Probably the in-house piano at The Manor (whatever that was), but also possibly something else hired for the sessions (e.g. the white Bechstein).
- 'We Are the Champions': Either the Basing Street Steinway or whatever they had at Wessex (either a Bechstein or a Bosendorfer depending on when the swap took place).
- 'You Take My Breath Away': Probably the in-house piano at The Manor (whatever that was), but also possibly something else hired for the sessions (e.g. the white Bechstein).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 13:44:32 GMT
Even trickier ones: - 'Breakthru': Depending on where it was recorded, it could've been the Mountain Steinway, the Olympic Steinway, a Town House Steinway or the Town House Bosendorfer.
- 'Bring Back That Leroy Brown': Could've been the Rockfield Yamaha, the Rockfield Bosendorfer, the Wessex Bechstein, the Trident Bechstein, or even another rental... plus the jangle one!
- 'Dear Friends': Could've been the Rockfield Yamaha, the Rockfield Bosendorfer, the Wessex Bechstein, the Trident Bechstein, or even another rental.
- 'Friends Will Be Friends': Depending on where it was recorded, it could've been the Mountain Steinway, the Sarm Steinway, a Town House Steinway, the Town House Bosendorfer or, more probably, the Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Hang on in There': Depending on where it was recorded, it could've been the Mountain Steinway, the Olympic Steinway, a Town House Steinway or the Town House Bosendorfer.
- 'I Guess We're Falling Out': Depending on where it was recorded, it could've been the Mountain Steinway, the Olympic Steinway, a Town House Steinway or the Town House Bosendorfer.
- 'In the Lap of the Gods': Could've been the Rockfield Yamaha, the Rockfield Bosendorfer, the Wessex Bechstein, the Trident Bechstein, or even another rental.
- 'Killer Queen': Could've been the Rockfield Yamaha, the Rockfield Bosendorfer, the Wessex Bechstein, the Trident Bechstein, or even another rental... plus the jangle one!
- 'Lily of the Valley': Could've been the Rockfield Yamaha, the Rockfield Bosendorfer, the Wessex Bechstein, the Trident Bechstein, or even another rental.
- 'Now I'm Here': Could've been the Rockfield Yamaha, the Rockfield Bosendorfer, the Wessex Bechstein, the Trident Bechstein, or even another rental.
- 'Pain Is So Close to Pleasure': Depending on where it was recorded, it could've been the Mountain Steinway, the Sarm Steinway, a Town House Steinway, the Town House Bosendorfer or, more probably, the Musicland Yamaha.
- 'Party': Depending on where it was recorded, it could've been the Mountain Steinway, the Olympic Steinway, a Town House Steinway or the Town House Bosendorfer.
- 'Princes of the Universe': Depending on where it was recorded, it could've been the Mountain Steinway, the Sarm Steinway, a Town House Steinway, the Town House Bosendorfer or, more probably, the Musicland Yamaha.
- 'The Miracle': Depending on where it was recorded, it could've been the Mountain Steinway, the Olympic Steinway, a Town House Steinway or the Town House Bosendorfer.
Special cases:
- 'Seven Seas of Rhye' (single version and Queen II) sounds like a jangle piano rather than a grand one.
- 'Somebody to Love' was done in separate parts, so perhaps different sections had different pianos.
- 'Soul Brother': No credits, no info on where it was done. Granted, it was possibly either Mountain or Musicland or both but not necessarily.
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Sept 19, 2020 14:39:14 GMT
Re the Sex pistols. Glen Matlock is the bassist in the photo, and I'm pretty sure Sid doesn't actually play bass on any studio recording anyway - it was either Matlock before he left or Jones after.
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kosimodo
Dragonfly Trumpeter
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Post by kosimodo on Sept 19, 2020 16:34:57 GMT
Its a beautifull day... and i am reading this.. Big thanks!
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jlf
Satyr
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Post by jlf on Sept 19, 2020 17:11:52 GMT
Epic thread! Some things I'd like to add:
I have friends who own a restoration facility and they do work for Bechstein and Blüthner, and they rebuild all other makes including Bösendorfer, Yamaha, Steinway and Sons, etc.... and in the UK, Bechsteins were the most imported piano in the early 20th Century and we have hundreds of them kicking around in people's houses, schools, sports halls, venues, in various states of repair.
I can tell that the white piano that Freddie is pictured at on Post number 4 is not a Bechstein V, but a longer model. It's not the full concert grand and so I think it's a Bechstein D (which in the early 20th Century was their second-to-concert grand length, although now they've designated the D as their 9'). The reason I say that is because the V doesn't actually curve at the back, it actually has corners at either side of the tail end. The later B curves around, but this looks longer than a B. Also I think the "Bechstein Debauchery" was perhaps a little joke to the "D" designation on the piano. Just my hunch.
The baby grand Freddie is pictured at with the Japanese Lacquer is actually not a Yamaha. It is an English grand piano that was sent to Japan to be lacquered. This was common practice amongst a few English makers including Monington & Weston, and Challen. Broadwoods also did one as well. This happened between about 1920 and about 1935, when the English baby grand had a bit of a hey-day. They were actually terrible pianos, but they looked beautiful. The effect was known in the UK piano trade as "Chinoiserie" (even though it was Japanese in this case, it was a less enlightened time for sure!), and some of the pianos were sold in the far east, and some made their way back to the UK. I can tell by the way the piano is carved at the keyboard sides and the treble curve of the piano is squared off. Yamaha never produced a piano with a cabinet of that shape. Look up some English baby grands and you'll see what I mean. It's likely that this is a Challen piano, just a hunch. Peter Freestone did say it was a Yamaha, but he's wrong about that. Freddie definitely bought the piano in Japan, as far as we know. It's also true that Freddie did have a Yamaha in Garden Lodge, and I think this is the piano that Mary Austin can be seen sitting in front of in the Untold Story (you can see the back curve of the piano, and it has pictures on it).
The piano at the Record Plant on close inspection looks like a Yamaha. I think I can see the Yamaha name reflecting when I increase the picture size, and the pedal bracings look Japanese. They don't look like the typical American Steinway bracings (which are actually quite flimsy...)
I think on the "Unblinking Eye" by Roger, you can see him playing a Steinway grand, and it's almost certainly a Hamburg from the 70s or 80s, finished in Satin Black. I know that the NY pianos were routinely finished in Satin until relatively recently but it was a brushed Satin and not a sprayed satin as you can see on that video so I wonder if that's the recording Steinway they bought. The NY is in Brian's house but it was rebuilt, and I think I know the guy who rebuilt it. It was resprayed in polyester. That piano was in terrible condition by the magic tour but it had the bite in the tone that they needed for it to cut through the mix.
I'm not surprised Freddie didn't like the sound of the Metropolis Fazioli. Honestly at that time Fazioli pianos were hit or miss, and they tended to have quite a sharp zing in the tone. They're much better now, although personally I'd take a Bösendorfer over a Fazioli
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 18:11:39 GMT
Absolutely fascinating reply. Thanks! In the UK, Bechsteins were the most imported piano in the early 20th Century and we have hundreds of them kicking around in people's houses, schools, sports halls, venues, in various states of repair. Defo, but by the early 70s Steinways were more common in recording studios and concert venues, there was a bit of an arms race there. I can tell that the white piano that Freddie is pictured at on Post number 4 is not a Bechstein V, but a longer model. It's not the full concert grand and so I think it's a Bechstein D What about the black Trident one? Do you agree with my (obviously fallible) length estimation? If the white one's a D, then its length is 8 ft 2 in (2.5 metres). The baby grand Freddie is pictured at with the Japanese Lacquer is actually not a Yamaha. Thanks, another mystery solved (sort of). Writing to the Fan Club in early 1978 (the letter was published in the spring issue of the magazine), Frederick mentioned that whilst in New York he'd bought 'a beautiful Japanese-style lacquered grand piano (made in England)' and had it shipped to England, so that's the one in the photo. I had heard Challen before so I think you're right. It's also true that Freddie did have a Yamaha in Garden Lodge, and I think this is the piano that Mary Austin can be seen sitting in front of in the Untold Story (you can see the back curve of the piano, and it has pictures on it). Which means that's the one he probably he used to compose 'Bohemian Rhapsody'. It makes sense that someone as wealthy as Frederick had more than one piano. The piano at the Record Plant on close inspection looks like a Yamaha. I think I can see the Yamaha name reflecting when I increase the picture size, and the pedal bracings look Japanese. They don't look like the typical American Steinway bracings (which are actually quite flimsy...) Thanks. It reinforces that hypothesis, then. I think on the "Unblinking Eye" by Roger, you can see him playing a Steinway grand, and it's almost certainly a Hamburg from the 70s or 80s, finished in Satin Black. I know that the NY pianos were routinely finished in Satin until relatively recently but it was a brushed Satin and not a sprayed satin as you can see on that video so I wonder if that's the recording Steinway they bought. That's what I think, too: back in 2002-ish David Richards told me the Steinway at Mountain had been taken by Roger when the studio was sold, so unless there's yet another Steinway, then this is probably the one. The NY is in Brian's house but it was rebuilt, and I think I know the guy who rebuilt it. It was resprayed in polyester. That piano was in terrible condition by the magic tour but it had the bite in the tone that they needed for it to cut through the mix. Yeah, another Fan Club magazine (around 94-ish, but I'd have to double-check) mentioned Steinway (the company) had offered to do some repairing on it. The more we all learn, the better!
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jlf
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Post by jlf on Sept 19, 2020 18:52:30 GMT
I have a question:
At the time Freddie composed Bohemian Rhapsody, he wasn't yet that wealthy, right? He was still with Trident and they were still on a salary. Do you think Freddie had a grand piano at the time he was with Trident? I'm not sure.
In 1994 Ron Losby, who is now the CEO of Steinway in New York, was the manager of the London Steinway Hall, so perhaps he'd know about the restoration of the '72 D. I don't know him well enough to ask him though.
The black Trident Bechstein looks like it could be a V or a B but I can't see it clearly enough.
Steinways were more common in recording studios but often artists would bring a piano in. A classical artist such as Ashkenazy would rent a piano from Steinways. Blüthner had two 1930s concert grands that were used for hire until about 1975 and one of them can be seen on the "Let It Be" video being played by Paul McCartney.
Even in the 1970s there were more objective differences between pianos than there are now. A Bechstein, Fazioli, Yamaha, Kawai, and Steinway new today can all be made to sound very similar although they all have their particular voice. I find with old Bechsteins there are a couple of tell-tale signs - one is the way the pedalling sounds. There is a kind of thump when most people play a Bechstein because the pedal travel is very short and the dampers tend to raise very high. On the Bohemian Rhapsody isolated piano track, Freddie does a lot of non-legato pedalling to clear the harmonies (he also pedals through a lot of harmonies for effect, it's weird but it's so effective), and you can hear that tell-tale quirk. Also, the treble of old Bechsteins tends to be very weak and lack sustain, it doesn't bloom like a Steinway.
Interesting that the lacquer piano is a Challen. I've heard various reports of where he might have bought it: the fan club magazine says New York, and the biography "These are the days of our lives" says Japan, but also says it was a 9' which it clearly isn't.
This forum really is a Queen musicology class/discussion forum.
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Sept 19, 2020 19:58:47 GMT
Trident refused to buy Freddie a grand piano (ref "The Trident Story" BBC radio 1991 ish). Norman Sheffield claims Freddie was demanding one and he flat out refused, it was far too expensive - "You don't buy grand pianos at that stage in your career, you rent them" and anyway Norman says it "wouldn't fit in his flat". Plus Roger once described hoisting a piano up the stairs to Freddie's flat, and that it "nearly killed us". I'm unsure of the timeline of the purchase of the Yamaha Baby Grand. Although the pic above I think is 1978, Freddie in his Stafford Terrace Kensington Flat (that he moved to after splitting with Mary in late 76). Thus I presume that's not the same piano Roger was helping haul up the stairs (we must assume they could afford proper removals men by 1977). I'm guessing therefore that the upright in Freddie's flat with Mary is the one which Roger helped drag up the stairs, and on which the various earlier Queen songs were composed, upto ANATO. Along with of course the in-studio ones. In fact, in the pictures thread there's a post with an exerpt from the current Record Collector Queen 75 issue which talks about the (spare) upright at Rockfield in the "tack troom" which Freddie asked to be tuned especially for their ANATO sessions and which evidently was also used for some composition.
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Sept 20, 2020 9:28:14 GMT
Just to add, it's also possible Freddie had the Baby Grand at his Holland Park flat (shared with Mary). Which would mean it was puchased some time between the ending of the Trident contract in 1975 and 1977.
I'm not convinced this makes sense, as Holland Park was a smaller flat, he already had the upright, and with the Trident contract severance it seems an unlikely and unneccessary expense, at least in 1975. After BR/ANATO were big hits, that's another matter.
Speculation of course. I'm just trying to determine how likely it was that ANATO/BR were written on the Baby Grand. Apologies for going off on a tangent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 11:28:57 GMT
In order not to quote so many fragments I'll summarise them here: - The Trident piano size and model.
- Frederick's Challen and where he purchased it.
- Frederick's Yamaha and Trident not wanting to give him the advance to buy it.
- What Frederick used to compose 'Bohemian Rhapsody' on.
- The Record Collector article mentioning the Rockfield upright.
The 'Hey Jude' Bechstein: Thanks for the insight. I'd vote for a V rather than a B because of the year of manufacturing, but of course this matter is far from closed. The English piano with Japanese lacquer: The New York hypothesis comes from Frederick himself, writing in his own hand a few months after having bought it that he found it in New York, not Japan. I think this matter could indeed be considered closed. The Yamaha and Trident: There are two sources claiming Frederick had the baby-grand Yamaha in 1975. One of them was Peter Freestone, who certainly wasn't there at the time but he also had ten years to ask Frederick; the other one was Edward Howell, who certainly was there when they worked on 'The Man from Manhattan' (he mentioned going to Frederick's flat and that he, Frederick, had a Yamaha grand). Possibilities would include: - Howell was misremembering, and he actually saw the Yamaha later (possibly a social visit a few years down the line or something).
- Trident initially refused to give him the advance, but eventually caved (an appeasement to get them not to leave, perhaps?), and he bought the piano and still penned 'Two Legs'.
- Frederick bought the piano from his own funds (or a loan or a credit or whatever).
The piano used to compose 'Bohemian Rhapsody': Obviously, every second person who met Frederick in those days is now claiming he or she saw him write it and/or that he's got the piano he used, etc. The funny thing is, some (probably not all and not most, but at least some) of them could be right: for all we know, Frederick could've composed part of it at home, parts of it whilst rehearsing at the Ridge Farm and Penrhos Court, parts of it at Rockfield before laying the backing track down, parts of it at Scorpio, Sarm and Lansdowne as he came up with new harmonies or different ideas for the overdubs.
The Record Collector article mentioning the Rockfield upright: It's a bit of a hodgepodge regurgitating info from different sources (I know, pot - kettle, as that's basically the same thing I do, only that I don't get published!), so I'd be interested in getting hold of that Kingsley Ward interview in its original form. By the way, the Record Collector article claims sessions kicked off on the 24th of August, which is fake news, so who knows what else they got wrong!
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Sept 20, 2020 12:45:54 GMT
Good stuff. The Eddie Howell anecdote indeed seems to indicate then (assuming he was not misremembering) that Freddie had the Baby Grand by the time the ANATO sessions began. A generous EMI perhaps? (The Record Collector article mentions Queen's increased enterouge and vehicles etc on the Opera sessions, so why not).
And yes of course Bo Rhap was possibly/probably composed or at least arranged on different pianos. In fact it was my suspicion about the claims that the Baby Grand was "the one" that sent me on a bit of a search. It seemed rather too convenient that the remaining Garden Lodge piano was the Bo Rhap piano, rather than a shonky old upright that's probably long been dumped. But hey, sometimes the 'legend' is true, or at least partially so.
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Sept 20, 2020 17:17:17 GMT
ImO the only way FM had a piano at home before ANaTO was if Trident paid for it.
They'd had a publishing advance from EMI already, and they had another in late 75 in order to partly settle the trident debt. (According to the Norman sheffield book). Surely they'd have struggled to get another one in between those two?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 18:45:35 GMT
ImO the only way FM had a piano at home before ANaTO was if Trident paid for it. They'd had a publishing advance from EMI already, and they had another in late 75 in order to partly settle the trident debt. (According to the Norman sheffield book). Surely they'd have struggled to get another one in between those two? The problems are: - We don't know.
- We're unlikely to ever be able to know.
I agree everything you're saying could make sense, but there's no way to be sure of that based on the evidence we've got.
Sheffield's book is telling his side of the story. We don't/can't know how much of that was factual (his book's got a few other errors, so this could be yet another one, or could be right - there's no way to tell the difference).
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Post by Chopin1995 on Oct 3, 2020 15:34:59 GMT
This was a great read! I admit, I also had my doubts when it comes to Bohemian Rhapsody being composed on the grand piano. Queen were photographed in Freddie's flat (in Holland Road) in 1974. And he had an upright piano at that point, as seen here: But then, there's this photo. Clearly taken later on, as Freddie has his kimono, which he must have bought in Japan in 1975. And surely this is also his flat, as seen on that very distinctive pattern on the wall. He's sitting by the baby grand piano:
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Post by Chopin1995 on Oct 3, 2020 16:19:43 GMT
I just realised, looking again at these 2 photos above, that it looks like the same metronome in the background on both pianos.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 16:32:41 GMT
They used a Wurlitzer for YMBF, didn’t they? It sounds better on the Wurlitzer than on the piano, like Freddie wanted live.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 9:42:16 GMT
Yes, it's a Wurlitzer EP-200 on the record.
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jlf
Satyr
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Post by jlf on Dec 5, 2020 19:35:19 GMT
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jlf
Satyr
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Post by jlf on Dec 5, 2020 19:37:11 GMT
Similar as in identical it seems.... who knows.... it *may* be Freddie's piano but I doubt it. There's no way of knowing without a serial number.
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