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Post by florians on Oct 25, 2020 18:46:23 GMT
Sometimes I ask myself if Queens Live Albums are kind of a missed opportunity. Albums like Made in Japan, Alive I, Frampton Comes Alive or Cheap Trick in Budokan have their own legacy and are widely known and also famous outside the devoted the fans of these artists. Neither Live Killers nor Live Magic are close to the "Top Club" of widely known and "Classic Live Albums".
Live Magic suerly was a poor job, no need to take a 2nd thought. Moreover the mid 80s probably were not the time to generate a legendary Live Album, but a release of the full Wembley or Knebworth Gig at the time would not have been forgotten, as Live Magic is now.
Live Killers...I wonder if the timing was bad and a live Album from the News of the World Tour or The Game Tour would have been a different Story.
Since Queen have always been regarded as one of the best Live Bands of their time, it is quite remarkable, that they failed to create a Live Album which undermines this status.
Before writing this, I checked some "the Best 50 Live Albums" lists, and Live Killers was not mentioned in any of them.
So what do you guys think, should Queen have done different?
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ted
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Post by ted on Oct 25, 2020 21:08:02 GMT
Live Killers...I wonder if the timing was bad and a live Album from the News of the World Tour...would have been a different Story. The part of your comment I have quoted above provides my answer to your question. In my view, it comes down to bad timing re. Queen releasing their 1st live album. I have some outstanding live concert videos and/or albums by Queen, officially released and otherwise, i.e. Earl's Court, June 1977, A Night at The Odeon, Dec. 1975 and Live at The Rainbow, March and Nov. 1974. I consider them to be far superior to Live Killers. Ted |
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dysan
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Post by dysan on Oct 25, 2020 21:44:14 GMT
I doubt I'd be here in 2020 posting about Queen if I hadn't heard Live Magic or especially Live Killers back in the eighties.
I'm pretty sure no live album is ever a truly satisfying experience for the band buffs knowing superior recording exist unofficially.
I agree timing is important, but no more than mixing decisions / song choices / cover artwork etc. For a band a live album serves many purposes, so they usually come out with inexplicable contents and / or capturing unlikely tours. Those ones you quoted do nothing for me, but even Live Magic is awash with deep personal meaning for me. It's all subjective innit?
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 25, 2020 23:05:05 GMT
I remember hearing LK for the first time and being wildly excited by the raw energy. It was the first time I'd heard a fast version of WWRY and what a surprise it was! Then there was the much more vibrant version of Now I'm Here, and that guitar solo in Brighton Rock! Despite finding side four a little bitty with the fades in and out between the tracks, at the time I never even considered that it was made up from bits and pieces, as it was just so enjoyable.
There was a bunch of live albums that came out in the 70s, such as Live & Dangerous, Strangers In The Night, Seconds Out, which were just so wonderful at the time. They sounded so much better than the studio albums, and bands played more varied versions of the songs. Many live albums of today sound like studio albums with added audience noise. I know the older ones had loads of overdubs, but that's what made them sound as good as they did, and still do today.
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The Real Wizard
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Post by The Real Wizard on Oct 26, 2020 5:58:36 GMT
Live Killers...I wonder if the timing was bad and a live Album from the News of the World Tour or The Game Tour would have been a different Story. Absolutely.
Jazz was in between two great albums. Had they released a compilation of the three nights at Wembley Arena in '78, no doubt it would've had a place amongst the great live albums.
Live Killers has its moments, and I love it dearly. But apart from Now I'm Here and side 3, most of it is not nearly as good as what they'd done on previous tours.
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pg
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Post by pg on Oct 26, 2020 8:17:12 GMT
Looking at it from another perspective.
How many of those "Classic Live Albums" were INTENDED to be successful, as opposed to becoming so due to serendipitous circumstances like a contractual obligation, no new songs to record, a surprise hit single, etc?
I don't have the time to wade through Wikipedia this morning, but Frampton, Motorhead and The Who all have more nuanced stories than "let's do an all time classi live album", to my memory.
So while I'd agree that there are better representations of Queen live, that isn't necessarily the reason for its lack of all-time critical acclaim / sales.
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Post by florians on Oct 26, 2020 8:55:43 GMT
Looking at it from another perspective. How many of those "Classic Live Albums" were INTENDED to be successful, as opposed to becoming so due to serendipitous circumstances like a contractual obligation, no new songs to record, a surprise hit single, etc? I don't have the time to wade through Wikipedia this morning, but Frampton, Motorhead and The Who all have more nuanced stories than "let's do an all time classi live album", to my memory. So while I'd agree that there are better representations of Queen live, that isn't necessarily the reason for its lack of all-time critical acclaim / sales. Your point is absolutey correct, and for some of these Artits like UFO, Frampton or Cheap Trick these Live Albums are considered as the pinacle in their collection, white Queens catalogue is full of highly regarded studio work. |
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Post by peacelovingguy on Oct 27, 2020 9:58:59 GMT
The much respected Rainbow release 40 years too late does I think prove your point. Queen could’ve well released two or three full concert albums in the 70s that would’ve raised their reputation in a way Live Killers did not. I do disagree a bit about Live Magic though. Yes, Live at Wembley is a better record, but I bloody loved Live Magic when it came out. It was the first Queen album I bought on release. Why they didn’t release live at Wembley then others will know better than I.
However, the whole Frampton comes alive thing, it’s catching lightning in a bottle. Not really my scene but Neil Diamond also pulled off a famous live album didn’t he?
There’s also plenty of rock fans in a far worse position than Queen fans. Guns n Roses official live album attempts are an embarrassment.
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dysan
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Post by dysan on Oct 27, 2020 10:09:38 GMT
Good to read some Live Magic love. I still prefer it to Wembley. No fat, chopped down and tight. Those were the days before I knew what edits were so it stood up on it's merits. It's still a nostalgic treat  |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 27, 2020 10:21:16 GMT
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dysan
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Post by dysan on Oct 27, 2020 10:48:35 GMT
Yeah the Japanese CD retained all the cassette edits and that's my go to I think I have 4 or 5 different FLAC versions. We did some good Live Magic threads on QZ. |
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Post by dysan on Oct 27, 2020 13:43:05 GMT
I know I've just said I love Live Magic, but given the choice of a new show where Freddie is in good shape, I wouldn't pick a show from any later than 1982.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Oct 27, 2020 16:34:08 GMT
there's parts of LK that i love, but generally - it's a bad representation of a live show. LM and L@W are (in many respects much worse).
for me, you can overdub, fix, repair, autotune, splice n dice a live show every which way and none of it does any harm, if what you're listening to stills sounds like a live gig. LK just doesn't retain a true feeling of being live.
A prime example of a live show getting the complete overhaul is Thin Lizzy's Live And Dangerous. Yeah sure, Visconti and Lizzy more or less redid everything save for the crowd noise, but what was release sounded like a live show.
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dysan
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Post by dysan on Oct 27, 2020 16:59:42 GMT
there's parts of LK that i love, but generally - it's a bad representation of a live show. LM and L@W are (in many respects much worse). for me, you can overdub, fix, repair, autotune, splice n dice a live show every which way and none of it does any harm, if what you're listening to stills sounds like a live gig. LK just doesn't retain a true feeling of being live. A prime example of a live show getting the complete overhaul is Thin Lizzy's Live And Dangerous. Yeah sure, Visconti and Lizzy more or less redid everything save for the crowd noise, but what was release sounded like a live show. You'll probably cry if you hear the original mix of Bowie's 'Stage' (another Visconti job) in that case When did you first hear LK? Was it after hearing about the studio work on it? 99% of the illusion of rock, all facets of it, is the illusion. To me aged about 10 pre-internet it sounded pretty good. |
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Oct 27, 2020 17:19:58 GMT
there's parts of LK that i love, but generally - it's a bad representation of a live show. LM and L@W are (in many respects much worse). for me, you can overdub, fix, repair, autotune, splice n dice a live show every which way and none of it does any harm, if what you're listening to stills sounds like a live gig. LK just doesn't retain a true feeling of being live. A prime example of a live show getting the complete overhaul is Thin Lizzy's Live And Dangerous. Yeah sure, Visconti and Lizzy more or less redid everything save for the crowd noise, but what was release sounded like a live show. When did you first hear LK? Was it after hearing about the studio work on it? 99% of the illusion of rock, all facets of it, is the illusion. To me aged about 10 pre-internet it sounded pretty good. it was one of many Queen albums i bought the week it was released (yes i'm that old). To be fair to it, there are some songs that work really well - SYW's drum sound is really nice, but generally the album does sound a little "thin". The medley just doesn't work every well at all. Now I'm Here, DSMN (abysmal sounding) and GDML could've been dumped and replaced with Somebody To Love, It's Late and Fat Bottomed Girls. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 27, 2020 17:29:46 GMT
When did you first hear LK? Was it after hearing about the studio work on it? 99% of the illusion of rock, all facets of it, is the illusion. To me aged about 10 pre-internet it sounded pretty good. Now I'm Here, DSMN (abysmal sounding) and GDML could've been dumped and replaced with Somebody To Love, It's Late and Fat Bottomed Girls. Then we'd have complained that NIH, DSMN and GDML were missing. 😄 Not sure if it was on the actual release date, as you just had to wait until you spotted them in the record shop in those days, but I remember buying ADATR and NOTW when they first came out. 😫 |
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dysan
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Post by dysan on Oct 27, 2020 17:37:29 GMT
Ah interesting. Like I said earlier, it's all subjective I dislike DSMN but love it on LK. NIH, KYA and SHA sound tired etc. Brighton Rock and the acoustic tracks I genuinely prefer to the studio cuts. The first side (in old money) is probably my favourite side of Queen music. I'm not sure many would agree haha! Good thread gang. EDIT: that was to Brenski |
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The Real Wizard
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 2, 2020 21:08:06 GMT
Looking at it from another perspective. How many of those "Classic Live Albums" were INTENDED to be successful, as opposed to becoming so due to serendipitous circumstances like a contractual obligation, no new songs to record, a surprise hit single, etc? I don't have the time to wade through Wikipedia this morning, but Frampton, Motorhead and The Who all have more nuanced stories than "let's do an all time classi live album", to my memory. So while I'd agree that there are better representations of Queen live, that isn't necessarily the reason for its lack of all-time critical acclaim / sales. Bang on.
Most live albums are a punctuation on an existing catalog.
Things like James Brown at the Apollo are the exception, not the rule.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Nov 4, 2020 8:06:08 GMT
I remember when a I bought LK vinyl, it was played to death. We Will rock you fast version blew my mind, the beautiful medley, Now I'm here, Spread your wings, '39, Brighton rock everything was, great. It took me long time to realize that, the line "the things we have to do for money" was refering to the silly horn sound, which Brian and Roger did with their mouths during Dreamer' s balls.
During this period the band was great as a unit and almost in their peak as live musicians.
The album captures perfectly the atmosphere and creates an image of the concert in listener's imagination. Few live albums do that.
Queen didn't want to release a live album, it was like an obligation, but LK was also a marketing tool for capitalizing their future concerts, which at the time were increasing especially in USA.
Brian said that, they were felt pressure to release a live album and he preffered to have release an live album during 1981-82.
I believe, if Queen had release a live album in 74,76, 77, early 78 NOTW tour or any Crazy tour concert it would have been classic album.
The fact that is a live compilation than a specific concert (despite its unit) doesn't help it.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Nov 4, 2020 8:21:29 GMT
Live Magic is another story... Having seen the late 70s contracts of Queen, which were posted few months ago in this forum, I understand why the album is short.
Queen 80s contract had 5+1 (optional studio album) and 1 Live. A double album with 75% unreleased material is considered as a studio album.
I remember during 80s many bought LM as a best compilation of 80s rather as a Live album.Interesting enough was that, many metalhaeds bought the album, some of them liked One vision and hammer to fall.
During Freddie's death the album re-enter top 10. The album was like a souvenir from their last tour nothing more.
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pg
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Post by pg on Nov 4, 2020 20:54:44 GMT
.. Having seen the late 70s contracts of Queen, which were posted few months ago in this forum, I understand why the album is short. Queen 80s contract had 5+1 (optional studio album) and 1 Live. A double album with 75% unreleased material is considered as a studio album. Wait...what? Where was this said? Whose option was the +1? Why would anyone release a double album that was 75% new if they could release a single album that was 100% new for the same contractual obligation? |
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dysan
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Post by dysan on Nov 4, 2020 20:58:51 GMT
When Bowie was trying to wrangle his way out of his RCA contract in the 70s he wanted the live double 'Stage' to be considered as 2 albums towards his count. No dice said the suits |
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Nov 5, 2020 6:05:06 GMT
.. Having seen the late 70s contracts of Queen, which were posted few months ago in this forum, I understand why the album is short. Queen 80s contract had 5+1 (optional studio album) and 1 Live. A double album with 75% unreleased material is considered as a studio album. Wait...what? Where was this said? Whose option was the +1? Why would anyone release a double album that was 75% new if they could release a single album that was 100% new for the same contractual obligation? It was 5 studio albums +1 optional studio album and 1 live. When Queen signed with EMI again in 81-82, Elektra records didn't count Flash OST as a proper studio album, thus Hot space was released for their previous contract in USA. After the commercial failure Freddie didn't wanted to release any album under Ekektra, since he believed that, the record company didn't promote Queen as good as it used to do. They paid 2m dollars to break their contract and moved to Capitol records.Something that happened again with capitol records in late 80s. If Queen had released a double live album with 75% unreleased live songs, it would have counted as a studio.A studio album gives to the band /artist money in advance, also has singles, tour etc more money than a live album. P.S. Greatest hits in USA was released under Elektra, the company had the rights for the specific release, so when Hollywood records released GH, they changed the track list in order to release the compilation. It took years for Queen to get the rights for GH "original" to re-release in USA. |
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Post by Makka on Nov 5, 2020 9:06:06 GMT
Live Killers was one of the first Queen albums I bought when I was 10. My brother had News Of The World and I used to listen to it all the time as a 7 year old. Whilst on holidays in 1980 i borrowed his Night At The Opera cassette and listened to it heaps. We went into a second hand store where we were staying and I found the LP of Live Killers for sale and bought it. Been a huge fan ever since.
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