Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 23, 2021 21:33:23 GMT
I've always had a 'thing' for real drums and the drum sound on albums (of any band or artist) was make or break for me a lot of the time. If I found a new band, but their albums had a poor drum sound, I'd largely dismiss them. That might seem a bit shallow, but it was just the 'ear' I had at the time. Lots of the bands I followed in the 70s had great drummers, such as Mick Tucker (Sweet), Ian Paice, Neil Peart, Cozy Powell, Phil Collins, John Bonham, Brian Downey (Thin Lizzy) Alex Van Halen, and of course, Roger Taylor. I was very disillusioned with the uprising and prevelence of electronic drums in the 80s, and for that reason, I'm not a big fan of that era, and it's one of the reasons I thought the later Queen albums were disappointing.
I was only thinking the other day in fact, that you so rarely hear real live drums in mainstream modern music, I wonder if drumming is a dying art? Sure there are still many great rock bands with fantastic drummers, but as far as mainstream 'radio' material goes, it's now mostly electronic pops and clicks composed on a computer in a bedroom.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Aug 23, 2021 23:19:26 GMT
I've actually been itching to talk to Queen fans about the band's use of drum machines. It absolutely baffles me anyone would prefer substandard electronic drums over Roger fucking Taylor. And it's to my understanding that even Roger Taylor preferred programmed drumming for that period of time. It just...ugh...annoys me so much on the later albums. I'd be interested to find out more about the equipment they used and if the motivation was really just because it was so new and exciting at the time. It fascinates and annoys me at the same time.
Take a track like The Invisible Man. The demo had that thick drum sound. I love it. And on the album version it starts (aside from the triplets) with a drum machine, and then grows into real drums which are played magnificently. The good thing I can say about that track is that at least Roger melded the two worlds together in an exciting way. Because when the real drums kick in I'm over the moon. It sounds so good. But other times, like on Staying Power, all you get is some weak ass programmed drum. Jeesh.
Regarding modern drumming, it's a good question. I myself am thinking of buying an electronic drum kit because by now they've really developed the technology. But yeah, to hear an acoustic kit on a modern pop track, it's becoming more and more a rarity. I have to believe that we'll always come back around to acoustic though.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 24, 2021 20:31:16 GMT
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Steve
Wordles & Heardles
Queen Mab
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Post by Steve on Aug 24, 2021 22:27:48 GMT
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Sept 8, 2021 0:26:45 GMT
I was hoping this topic would pick up speed...so apparently no one is as bothered about the tragedy of Queen's drums in the eighties. Granted, it happened across most of pop music, but why, just why did Roger go along with replacing his talent with that of machines? It's the biggest thing that annoys me about Queen's eighties sound. I'm not saying it never worked, because it did (I'm talking about Radio Gaga), but it just seemed to overstay its welcome in a lot of songs.
Also, wanted to mention that the Netflix documentary Count Me In features Roger Taylor. It's all about the drummers in music from jazz and rock. There's even a short segment that features Roger's playing. Worth checking out.
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Mr Prime Jive
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Post by Mr Prime Jive on Sept 8, 2021 1:03:11 GMT
I'm a drummer myself. I've played professionally for many bands, on three continents. Queen were a very sensible group of individuals trying to sense what was going on around them and try to blend their style in what the zeitgeist was bringing and thus for better or worse, trying to stay relevant whithin the top 40 scene and surviving the 80's, starting with the punk era which was hell for them. You gonna note that very very little bands/artists popular in the 70's could replicate any kind of intensity in the following decade. The price to pay was to lighten up the sound, trim down the arrangements and get a more compact sound. A band who had a complete parallel experience to Queen was Genesis who by the early 80's had also went full on drum machine to a point that drummer Phil Collins went from prog drummer to programmer. That was a complete departure form everyone and soon rhythm sections would find their instruments replaced by Linn Drums and Dx7 that's why drummers went on with the flow learning to play along machines and also to replicate them when on stage. Think Prince when he would go live and keep his Linn sounds but played by a real drummer. Sick! By this time everybody in Queen was programming drums, not Roger only and he had very little to say about what input his band mates had on it. Entire songs were made by only two band mates only — most of the time not even in the same room! Time evolves in cycles, real drums went back into fashion by the late 80's when alternative radios bands (Pixies, R.E.M, The Smiths...) started a fresh wave until Nirvana came and wiped all these dinosaurs that suddenly had to reinvent themselves...or die. Sorry for the long post but there was value in your first enquiry !!
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 8, 2021 8:52:05 GMT
I dislike Genesis's Invisible Touch album for the same reasons I dislike much of Queen's later output - lack of real drums.
I realise they were trying to move with the times, and it certainly didn't seem to do either band's chart success any harm, but I cared more about the music than whether they had chart topping singles. Both bands had world class drummers, and to not hear them doing what they do was very disheartening at the time.
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vh
Ploughman
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Post by vh on Sept 8, 2021 10:48:38 GMT
I'm a drummer myself. I've played professionally for many bands, on three continents. Queen were a very sensible group of individuals trying to sense what was going on around them and try to blend their style in what the zeitgeist was bringing and thus for better or worse, trying to stay relevant whithin the top 40 scene and surviving the 80's, starting with the punk era which was hell for them. You gonna note that very very little bands/artists popular in the 70's could replicate any kind of intensity in the following decade. The price to pay was to lighten up the sound, trim down the arrangements and get a more compact sound. A band who had a complete parallel experience to Queen was Genesis who by the early 80's had also went full on drum machine to a point that drummer Phil Collins went from prog drummer to programmer. That was a complete departure form everyone and soon rhythm sections would find their instruments replaced by Linn Drums and Dx7 that's why drummers went on with the flow learning to play along machines and also to replicate them when on stage. Think Prince when he would go live and keep his Linn sounds but played by a real drummer. Sick! By this time everybody in Queen was programming drums, not Roger only and he had very little to say about what input his band mates had on it. Entire songs were made by only two band mates only — most of the time not even in the same room! Time evolves in cycles, real drums went back into fashion by the late 80's when alternative radios bands (Pixies, R.E.M, The Smiths...) started a fresh wave until Nirvana came and wiped all these dinosaurs that suddenly had to reinvent themselves...or die. Sorry for the long post but there was value in your first enquiry !! You’ve said that the Punk era was hell for Queen. Not true, they became more successful in sales of albums and tickets during late 70’s and into the 80’s. With regards to Roger having no say in what other band members were producing, wher did you get that from. In a 1980 interview in International Musician roger himself said that within Queen and on Fun In Space he often made drum loops as part of the backing track, he followed that comment by saying he’d defy anyone to spot which tracks had live played drums and which were loops. There’s only a short jump from that to using drum machines.
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Post by florians on Sept 8, 2021 20:16:02 GMT
Maybe a bit off topic, but surely a suitable andecdote: The German Metal band Running Wild, who had their big days from the mid 80s to the early 90s started to use a drum computer by the mid 90s but pretended that there would be a drummer named Angelo Sasso in the band. This band member never existed, as the bandleader also confessed some 15 years later. Since then in the German Metal scene people speak of Angelo Sasso whenever a band uses a drum computer.
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Mr Prime Jive
Tatterdemalion
Demolition Fairlight
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Post by Mr Prime Jive on Sept 15, 2021 23:34:33 GMT
I'm a drummer myself. I've played professionally for many bands, on three continents. Queen were a very sensible group of individuals trying to sense what was going on around them and try to blend their style in what the zeitgeist was bringing and thus for better or worse, trying to stay relevant whithin the top 40 scene and surviving the 80's, starting with the punk era which was hell for them. You gonna note that very very little bands/artists popular in the 70's could replicate any kind of intensity in the following decade. The price to pay was to lighten up the sound, trim down the arrangements and get a more compact sound. A band who had a complete parallel experience to Queen was Genesis who by the early 80's had also went full on drum machine to a point that drummer Phil Collins went from prog drummer to programmer. That was a complete departure form everyone and soon rhythm sections would find their instruments replaced by Linn Drums and Dx7 that's why drummers went on with the flow learning to play along machines and also to replicate them when on stage. Think Prince when he would go live and keep his Linn sounds but played by a real drummer. Sick! By this time everybody in Queen was programming drums, not Roger only and he had very little to say about what input his band mates had on it. Entire songs were made by only two band mates only — most of the time not even in the same room! Time evolves in cycles, real drums went back into fashion by the late 80's when alternative radios bands (Pixies, R.E.M, The Smiths...) started a fresh wave until Nirvana came and wiped all these dinosaurs that suddenly had to reinvent themselves...or die. Sorry for the long post but there was value in your first enquiry !! You’ve said that the Punk era was hell for Queen. Not true, they became more successful in sales of albums and tickets during late 70’s and into the 80’s. With regards to Roger having no say in what other band members were producing, wher did you get that from. In a 1980 interview in International Musician roger himself said that within Queen and on Fun In Space he often made drum loops as part of the backing track, he followed that comment by saying he’d defy anyone to spot which tracks had live played drums and which were loops. There’s only a short jump from that to using drum machines. Sure, I said it was 'hell' for them, they just kept walking. They had to reinvent themselves pretty hard and drastically rethink their sound and attitude. Also, when saying Roger had nothing to say about what other band mates were producing, i meant that "drums" stopped solely belonging to Roger, every band member was from Hot Space on programming their own pattern on the Linn sometimes asking Le Rog' to cover up with some real drums or percussion florishes: Staying Power, Back Chat, are good examples. Further on you go thru A Kind Of Magic who was absolutely fragmented between Montreux and München and each team John+Fred and Bri+Rog were separately recording demoes and building up on them later: Pain Is So Close, One Year of Love has Zero Roger, Zero Brian. Just some overdubs later on. Same on the opposite Don't Lose Your Head and AKOM had Zero Freddie and Zero John to start, they just came later.
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