Chinwonder2
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RIP QueenZone 1995 - 2020
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Post by Chinwonder2 on May 24, 2022 7:03:27 GMT
Hey everyone,
For a long time, the tape recorded for Jim Hutton in Garden Lodge has been floating around and on it contains pieces Freddie recorded for Jim as a gift. He recorded 4 songs, Send In The Clowns, Amazing Grace, The Well Tempered Clavier and the unknown track. I've always wanted to know for years what this song is, it sounds really beautiful. Anyone able to share any light onto which song Freddie could be playing here:
-Chin
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Post by lewisakkas on May 24, 2022 8:17:38 GMT
It's a long shot but it might be Send in the Clowns.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on May 24, 2022 10:03:34 GMT
i've tried four different online apps - three of which claim to "identify a song from even whistling or humming". Also used an Android music detection app - all failed:
Unknown song. Therefore, conclusion is that this may have been nothing more than a bit of Freddie "noodling" - or the genesis of an idea?
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Golden Salmon
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Post by Golden Salmon on May 24, 2022 15:57:19 GMT
Pretty sure it's "Body Language 2". Sadly, Freddie considered we weren't ready and never completed it.
By the way, the tape came from John S. Stuart, who purchased it from Jim Hutton himself. I wonder why he would sell such a precious item.
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Post by Chopin1995 on May 25, 2022 17:33:33 GMT
It's a long shot but it might be Send in the Clowns. Freddie actually recorded Send in the Clowns This 'Unknown song' is in a different key and it's very unlikely to be Freddie's own idea. It's not his 'style' of playing, so I guess this is another song from a musical which Jim asked Freddie to play. There's a chance it might be a classical piace from the 2nd half of the 19th century or 20th century.
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 25, 2022 22:15:43 GMT
Is there any chatter on this tape to prove it to be genuine ?
Something tells me none of this is Freddie playing. Not to mention the piano is very out of tune - I doubt Freddie would've let his piano go out of tune like this.
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Golden Salmon
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Post by Golden Salmon on May 25, 2022 22:53:41 GMT
Is there any chatter on this tape to prove it to be genuine ? Something tells me none of this is Freddie playing. Not to mention the piano is very out of tune - I doubt Freddie would've let his piano go out of tune like this. www.queenconcerts.com/queenzone/1390050.htmlJohn's post:
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 26, 2022 0:18:46 GMT
Is there any chatter on this tape to prove it to be genuine ? Something tells me none of this is Freddie playing. Not to mention the piano is very out of tune - I doubt Freddie would've let his piano go out of tune like this. www.queenconcerts.com/queenzone/1390050.htmlJohn's post: If true, then I stand corrected.
Side note: maybe it's just me, but I kind of feel like I'm creeping through the window when I'm listening to things that weren't meant to be made public. Not to mention how profiting off of one's dead partner when it was their wish that their private life remain private isn't exactly the best look for someone who's supposedly grieving their death. What a shame.
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katby
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Post by katby on May 26, 2022 15:45:58 GMT
If true, then I stand corrected.
Side note: maybe it's just me, but I kind of feel like I'm creeping through the window when I'm listening to things that weren't meant to be made public. Not to mention how profiting off of one's dead partner when it was their wish that their private life remain private isn't exactly the best look for someone who's supposedly grieving their death. What a shame.
It's possible that Jim found it too painful to listen to the tape, and thought it would be better appreciated in the hands of fans. Or perhaps he desperately needed money and Freddie would be happy for him to sell the tape in those circumstances.
I do agree that it feels creepy to see/hear private things. I remember seeing a photograph of John Deacon hugging Dave Clark at Freddie's funeral and immediately feeling like I was spying on a private moment. Sometimes you can just feel when something wasn't meant for the public. A lot of the Garden Lodge stuff falls into that category, for me.
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Post by Leon's Crazy Game on May 26, 2022 15:55:37 GMT
The bathtub footage makes me feel extremely awkward
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Post by katydyd5 on May 26, 2022 23:09:09 GMT
If true, then I stand corrected.
Side note: maybe it's just me, but I kind of feel like I'm creeping through the window when I'm listening to things that weren't meant to be made public. Not to mention how profiting off of one's dead partner when it was their wish that their private life remain private isn't exactly the best look for someone who's supposedly grieving their death. What a shame.
John says he met Jim a short while before he died and bought the tape from him then. Perhaps Jim preferred to see a real fan acquire the precious tape, rather than risk it be thrown away or end up in some thrift store after he passed. It's also possible he needed money for medical expenses or other things. I don't know, I'm speculating, but it's been so many years now I see nothing wrong with the tape being shared.
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Post by angusscrimm on May 27, 2022 0:19:34 GMT
i've tried four different online apps - three of which claim to "identify a song from even whistling or humming". Also used an Android music detection app - all failed: Unknown song. Therefore, conclusion is that this may have been nothing more than a bit of Freddie "noodling" - or the genesis of an idea? Yeah, I've tried that. I also tried to run Send In The Clowns and Well Tempered Clavier through as well - and the big apps don't recognise those either!
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Post by rupertpupkin on May 28, 2022 0:36:31 GMT
Since this is an instrumental with no chat at the beginning, if this is a fake, then the guy knows Freddie's secret chord progression. This piano melody is superb, I can almost imagine Freddie singin'it; it has a kind of Dakota Lennon'ish piano demo. At the very beginning, when the melody is starting to take place, somehow at approx 0mn24 the melody seems to reminds "Yesterday" (the verse/melody of "All my troubles are so far away...") but he did not repeats it twice; thus it sounds like he had the melody in mind and the beginning has a bit of noodling around the verses, but after the melody becomes "steady" and to me, it is the structure of what could have become a magnificent song; not a pure instrumental. Too bad that there is no humming by Freddie over. What intrigues me is that the way it was recorded seems to me close to how John Lennon was taping his demos at the Dakota in the late 70's.
Do we have a date of this piano demo recording ?
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Post by rupertpupkin on May 28, 2022 3:26:31 GMT
On the other side "Send In The Clowns" makes me think of Vangelis (RIP) piano parts for Blade Runner (Ridley Scott) (Rachel's theme for instance). Something simple and humble, ethereal a-la Erik Satie. Pure magic.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on May 28, 2022 5:40:22 GMT
What intrigues me is that the way it was recorded seems to me close to how John Lennon was taping his demos at the Dakota in the late 70's. Do we have a date of this piano demo recording ? my thoughts exactly. although, to be fair, I know they're generally referred to as "home demos" but they're not really. a demo tape is something recorded under studio conditions, and Lennon and Freddie's (as well as many others I've heard) should really be labelled as "Original Idea" or "Scratch Track".
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Post by faceitalone1991 on May 28, 2022 9:11:43 GMT
There was always a yoko cassetterecorder on the baby grant piano at Logan Place....
by the way, to my knowledge it's Phoebe who plays the piano in those tracks.... not Freddie. Freddie had a different style.
I have an other recording of Phoebe playing, the style is similar.
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Post by angusscrimm on May 28, 2022 12:28:26 GMT
Well, if Phoebe knows they're circulating, he could maybe clear it up.
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georg
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Post by georg on May 28, 2022 13:29:48 GMT
I had no idea Phoebe played piano! For years I assumed that if it wasn’t Freddie it would’ve been Mike Moran.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on May 28, 2022 14:13:27 GMT
Hey everyone,For a long time, the tape recorded for Jim Hutton in Garden Lodge has been floating around and on it contains pieces Freddie recorded for Jim as a gift. He recorded 4 songs, Send In The Clowns, Amazing Grace, The Well Tempered Clavier and the unknown track. I've always wanted to know for years what this song is, it sounds really beautiful. Anyone able to share any light onto which song Freddie could be playing here: -Chin by the way, to my knowledge it's Phoebe who plays the piano in those tracks.... not Freddie. Freddie had a different style. not disputing the accuracy of your comment, but: why would Freddie gift a tape to Jim of "someone else playing piano" - that's as impersonal as giving someone Gift Vouchers for Christmas. or perhaps it's symptomatic of Freddie's sharp sense of humour? "Jim, I love you so much - here's a little token of my love - I've done a little mixtape for you...of Mike Moran playing the piano" or - and don't shoot me for this one: was it ever corroborated that Freddie gave Jim a tape? Or, could this have been part of the general ransacking that went on at Garden Lodge in those final few days/weeks?
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Post by rupertpupkin on May 29, 2022 5:21:08 GMT
What intrigues me is that the way it was recorded seems to me close to how John Lennon was taping his demos at the Dakota in the late 70's. Do we have a date of this piano demo recording ? my thoughts exactly. although, to be fair, I know they're generally referred to as "home demos" but they're not really. a demo tape is something recorded under studio conditions, and Lennon and Freddie's (as well as many others I've heard) should really be labelled as "Original Idea" or "Scratch Track". I also remember that besides John Lennon who recorded with an open mike next to his upright piano at the Dakota in the mid-seventies all his home piano demos, Bo Harwood did the same when John Cassavetes asked him to play piano instead of guitar for his movie " A Woman Under Influence" in order to record the soundtrack. The same way of recording piano was used by Bo Harwood (open mike next to an upright or grand piano); this was intended for the demos, but John Cassavetes like these piano demos so much that they used Bo Harwood piano demos rather than recording it on studio (money and time were involved, so it was also cheaper to mix it directly into the movie). The thing is that on both of these home piano demos recorded that way, you can hear foot stomping, chats, humming... I can not imagine Freddie not humming while playing, or not hearing a bit of chats at the beginning of the tape or being impatient because he struggles with a chord. These are clearly early home demos to develop the melody (you can tell it with the "unreleased song") On the other hand, piano demo instrumentals without chats foot stomping or humming turned out to be legit : the example I have are some piano demos recorded by Prince in 1982 (not sure of the date but I have these piano demos). And they turned out to be genuine despite they are pure instrumental with no singing at all or humming. Some other piano demos surfaced with Prince singing; some are still bootlegged and not released like the piano demo Spike Lee used for the piano the end of his movie "BlacKkKlansman". Back to the "Send In The Clown" melody, this reminds me some Puccini melodies which would be roughly transposed on piano. I remember that for "Modern Times" Charlie Chaplin wanted to compose a Puccini-like melody and it turned out to be "Smile" (theme). At the time they were no lyrics at all; they were written later when the song became a hit first sung by Nat King Cole. This does not sound by Puccini; this is a pure gem; Chaplin was a genius; but the arrangement are Puccini-like.
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dysan
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Post by dysan on May 29, 2022 7:52:33 GMT
although, to be fair, I know they're generally referred to as "home demos" but they're not really. a demo tape is something recorded under studio conditions, and Lennon and Freddie's (as well as many others I've heard) should really be labelled as "Original Idea" or "Scratch Track". Pedant alert! A demo can be recorded on anything the artist has to hand. It's ' demonstrating' material. With these home-recorded Freddie tapes I think 'home demo' holds up regardless of the nature of the music recorded as it's taken more as a description of the level the material is at. Of course that can be broken down further if the tracks are dug out for official release to qualify it - home demo, 4-track demo, full band rehearsal room demo, full studio demo follow the journey the song takes to its finished master. Extra pedant level unlocked! Likewise, an 'original idea' can also be a studio creation ('It's a Beautiful Day' from The Game 2011 deluxe, perhaps) and a Scratch Track would usually refer to an element on a multitrack tape that is put down as a place holder to be replaced later. A good example is a guide guitar line put down when the drummer is tracking his part that can then be redone once the drum take is considered final. Maybe a 'scratch' vocal guide put down so the band can feel their way through a song or so the singer can listen back later to finalise the words ('Sail Away..' on The Game 2011 deluxe, perhaps)
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Post by rupertpupkin on May 30, 2022 4:12:37 GMT
I agree, the "value" of the artist does not imply that he has a complete home studio recording at home. John Lennon was often described as perfectionist in studio during the Beatles era (Strawberry Fields Forever, etc...) but during the Dakota years he used an open mike next to his upright piano; and use a Sony stereo recorder tape; even not a multitrack recording (which John Lennon could afford; he even did not use a 4 tracks recording) Thus when he wanted to do some overdubs, he altered the previous tape by playing it and recording over it. Thus, the paradox was that he has a "limited" imperfect way of recording home demos (piano or guitar) but spend a lot of time to finish his unreleased songs by adding layers of overdubs. Lennon stopped to work more on a home demos when he considered that the song was finished with complete lyrics. Too bad that he kept because he wanted to release "Double Fantasy" first, (half of the songs being recorded by Yoko), most of his piano-material songs (Grow Old With Me, etc...) were not attempted in studio by the band (just some snippets like "Gone From This Place" (another unreleased song) because he was so impatient and excited to be in studio again with the band in August 1979.
In the meantime Paul McCartney recorded McCartney II album at a home studio. Nowdays the sound achieved here, is considered as low-fi, and hype.
Pete Townshend used a home studio (with multitrack) and play all instruments (including bass) and his demos of "Tommy", "Who's Next" or "Quadrophenia" are really some polished demos; to the point that you have the feeling that a virtuoso bass player like The Ox aka John Entwistle has not much room to improvise when Pete came with such polished home studio songs.
David Gilmour used some rudimentary material (well, that would be considered like this) for this pre-The Wall home demos (like his demo of Comfortably Numb), same for Roger Waters home demos; whereas Pink Floyd is considered as a perfectionist band.
Thus, the way of recording home demos does not depend on the money an artist can spend to buy some multitrack recording and built his own home studio. Prince did that, but John Lennon or a lot had the demos, but they did not care about having a state-of-the-art or their Xanadu home-studio. I don't think that's a matter of humility, perhaps they always recorded like this (like John Lennon used to) and consider home as the place to record "rude home demos" and studio to record the album. All the artists described above are considered as perfectionist; thus it's not a matter of laziness; just their way to compose at home.
It's odd and funny to consider that these days, we can get a 4 tracks recording or record with our computer with far more tracks than the Beatles album were recorded (4 tracks for Sgt Pepper's for instance).
Thus, I tend to consider than having "limited"/restricted technical material is not a barrier to creativity.
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Post by willyafton on Aug 8, 2022 6:07:46 GMT
It sorta resembles Liszt - Three Concert Études No. 3 in D-Flat Major, S. 144/3: Un sospiro. Perhaps it's slowed down and a similar key.
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jo
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Post by jo on Aug 8, 2022 21:26:41 GMT
Very Dave Brubeck-like I doubt the piano was out of tune, it's much more likely the tape recorder had batteries that weren't 100%, or even a tape that had a bit of wobble to it.
It's pretty well documented that Jim was in a bit of financial situation near the end of his life so it isn't unlikely that he sold off some things to collectors. He was well aware of his terminal condition and sometimes material things lose value in those situations. He did make some questionable decisions and it's no secret that he cashed in a few times, especially that darn book, but he like many others in Freddie's orbit lived a life style that was unsustainable after his death, even with the generous legacy Freddie left them.
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