Desert Rat
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Post by Desert Rat on Jul 24, 2022 15:59:52 GMT
OK, so now I have your attention, what do I want?
To start with I need four people to join me for this new and hopefully exciting project as follows: -
1. Someone who can write a database driven website using whatever methods are required (PHP, JQuery, HTML, CSS) with a SQL database
2. Someone who is a gifted and creative graphic artist to create artwork for the site and maybe even a bespoke font
3. I also need a meticulous detail driven Queen fan who is happy spending an unknown number of hours checking and cross-checking information, spreadsheets, databases etc. They must also be highly attuned to the differences between RoIO (Recordings of Independent Origin) and Official Releases in the Queen catalogue
4. Finally, I require an audiophile. This role is to generate an empirical scale of audio recording quality to be based on numerous elements and then listen to samples of every recording and rate them accordingly
I don’t want to give too much away, but right up front there is no money to be made, but whoever writes this site and does the artwork will have their names and contact details at the foot of every page (should they so wish). Therefore, if you are a talented website creator or graphic artist who wants to get their name out there, this could be an opportunity (no guarantees though). In addition, all those who help contribute will be listed on a dedicated page.
I would prefer to use Queen fans because this will be a labour of love, but if you know someone else that really will be committed, that is fine by me. Please note that after launch, this project may take several years to refine.
So, what’s the deal?
• I will not fund your time, hardware, internet connection etc.
• I will fund a domain, web hosting, web storage, licenses, specialist software etc.
• All code, artwork etc. will NOT remain your intellectual property
• I want people who are committed and will not give up half way through
• This is a long-term project that I want to try and launch early next year
• Development will continue long after the launch
• The site MUST be built on a SQL database
• The site requires of a number of static pages including an eye-catching main landing page
• The main goal is a website with all other pages created on the fly from database queries
• Programming the database and website with artwork and high quality content is the main requirement
• Artistic license is absolutely permitted and encouraged
I have spent a several thousand hours preparing the backbone of information and content, and this is where person 3 listed above comes in. There are probably hundreds of errors in my work and I do not have time to go back and check everything, I need to keep moving forward.
Does any of this interest and excite you? If so, please message me and I will be in contact.
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Jul 24, 2022 16:26:34 GMT
As a third tier candidate for post 3 (at best), I'd suggest that asking creatives to waive their IP for no recompense is unfair.
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Jul 24, 2022 16:27:00 GMT
Actually, couldn't posts 3 and 4 be teams of people?
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Desert Rat
Ploughman
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Post by Desert Rat on Jul 24, 2022 17:35:49 GMT
Actually, couldn't posts 3 and 4 be teams of people? Agreed, and if multiple people came forward then that would be an option. IP never rests with the developer, it always has to pass over. For example, someone develops a website and then has a falling out and demands that everything is handed back and that nothing is used. That would completely destroy all progress and set the project back to square one. The whole point is that a developer of the website would have company and contact details on every page, this is their payment if you like for their IP. Who knows, if the site became popular they may get lots of referrals. Same is true for graphics work. All other work is truly only for those who want to be involved. Their name would be on a highly prominent page and not buried somewhere. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Jul 24, 2022 18:49:16 GMT
To be polite, rather than just ignore this, I respectfully decline as I wouldn't have the time for any such commitment. Good luck, though. 👍
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Jul 25, 2022 7:41:53 GMT
IP never rests with the developer, it always has to pass over. Thanks, but I knew that. You didn't quote the fairly pertinent phrase "for no recompense" though. You want quality work for the fee of "you can be credited at the bottom of the page". I hope it works out for you. |
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scallyuk
Wordles & Heardles 
Satyr
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Post by scallyuk on Jul 25, 2022 9:48:42 GMT
OK, so now I have your attention, what do I want? To start with I need four people to join me for this new and hopefully exciting project as follows: - I would prefer to use Queen fans because this will be a labour of love, but if you know someone else that really will be committed, that is fine by me. Please note that after launch, this project may take several years to refine. So, what’s the deal? • I will not fund your time, hardware, internet connection etc. • I will fund a domain, web hosting, web storage, licenses, specialist software etc. • All code, artwork etc. will NOT remain your intellectual property • I want people who are committed and will not give up half way through • This is a long-term project that I want to try and launch early next year • Development will continue long after the launch • The site MUST be built on a SQL database • The site requires of a number of static pages including an eye-catching main landing page • The main goal is a website with all other pages created on the fly from database queries • Programming the database and website with artwork and high quality content is the main requirement • Artistic license is absolutely permitted and encouraged I have spent a several thousand hours preparing the backbone of information and content, and this is where person 3 listed above comes in. There are probably hundreds of errors in my work and I do not have time to go back and check everything, I need to keep moving forward. Does any of this interest and excite you? If so, please message me and I will be in contact. So you've got an error ridden set of data that you can't be bothered to fix but think its good enough for you to get people to dedicate their time to fix and construct a full working database driven website for "credit" . You're either mad or dreaming. |
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Golden Salmon
Wordles & Heardles
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Post by Golden Salmon on Jul 25, 2022 14:10:25 GMT
I don’t want to give too much away, but right up front there is no money to be made, but whoever writes this site and does the artwork will have their names and contact details at the foot of every page (should they so wish) I'm about to post this on Reddit. "Countless hours" for no actual compensation and optional credit? You will find absolutely no skilled labor, or unskilled even. |
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Jul 25, 2022 14:33:37 GMT
I have spent a several thousand hours preparing the backbone of information and content, and this is where person 3 listed above comes in. There are probably hundreds of errors in my work and I do not have time to go back and check everything, I need to keep moving forward. i'm finding this section impossible to comprehend. in itself it's a complete contradiction, you're asking others to "correct [potentially] hundreds of mistakes" - that YOU have not the time to check....why do you consider anyone else's time less important than your own? It's your project, your pet, the one thing the owner of something this should have is the time to devote to it, if not, then it appears a little that you're not "all in". this isn't how the world works - and correctly so. i really think this is becoming a "thing" of late - perhaps it's symptomatic of the times in which we live. we've certainly had (at least) two such similar requests on this forum...owners of a project want others to do the heavy lifting for them. if i ask someone to do something that I can't, then I should reimburse them financially for their skills and time. if we're not doing that, then the request itself comes across as a bit of a cheek. if the poster is asking someone to do something that they themselves either can't or won't then, that time and effort - and skills should be rewarded at the commensurate rate. one maxim should ALWAYS apply. a fair days' pay for a fair days' work. there is a way to get this done - but ONLY if the thing itself has legs. Setup a Gofundme (or similar) - detail (and I mean detail) your plan, and promise that if you reach your target the project will go ahead, then you can actually pay people for their work. Also commit to returning money to backers if the project doesn't go live. |
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Desert Rat
Ploughman
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Post by Desert Rat on Jul 25, 2022 16:06:37 GMT
Wow, I did not expect such negativity... My experience on this forum to date has been nothing short of fabulous.
I am trying to get a project off the ground, it will be a money pit for me, it will be a totally free resource for the entire Queen community which will cost me money to run every year, and I probably naively thought that others might like to get involved and help out. I also naively thought that others may have a similar passion to give something back to the community without expecting something in return.
I will not respond to individual posts and give my comments back, I think that would be a waste of time and I don't really think anyone would be interested.
On the flip side, if anyone does want to get involved, you know how to find me.
I wish everyone in this forum nothing but the best and I am big fan of it, so I am sure you will find me posting from time to time.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Jul 25, 2022 17:02:31 GMT
I think perhaps the problem is that you're basically asking for professional services at no cost. I doubt you would find a professional web designer / creative artist who would be prepared to devote potentially years to a project for no fees - people make livings out of such work, and there seems little incentive to make such a commitment 'for free'.
Just a thought, but if there are other incentives, then perhaps you're not selling them too well by keeping the nature of the project under wraps, although I understand you may have reasons for doing so.
I also think you will have trouble finding people to stay the course for the long term. I've been involved with what was seen as a long term project, and people's circumstances change, with other, perhaps unforseen, commitments taking priority. Indeed, none of us can predict the future, so even your own life path may change and leave you unable to see the project through. Where would that then leave anyone else involved?
I don't think anyone here is setting out to be overly negative. It just seems a very big ask, for practically zero recompense.
As I said before, it's not for me, but good luck. 🙂
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Post by angusscrimm on Jul 25, 2022 18:32:57 GMT
I don't think that the responses have been overly negative. A little critical, but you should expect questions, critique and suggestions, especially given that your idea is mainly under wraps. In fact, the crowdfunder is a good suggestion to have come out of the discussion. From your OP, I'm imagining you're up to something somewhere along the line of what Bob (queenlive.ca) has done. If I'm wrong, fair enough, but if I'm not - how does your idea better the already existing resource? Thanks  |
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Jul 26, 2022 18:06:43 GMT
there is a way to get this done - but ONLY if the thing itself has legs. Setup a Gofundme (or similar) - detail (and I mean detail) your plan, and promise that if you reach your target the project will go ahead, then you can actually pay people for their work. Also commit to returning money to backers if the project doesn't go live. Wow, I did not expect such negativity...I will not respond to individual posts and give my comments back, I think that would be a waste of time and I don't really think anyone would be interested.. you misinterpret constructive criticism and take it as negativity. to say you're not going to respond to posts is a little strange. if you're undertaking a major project you have to expect some criticism and lots of hurdles along the way - and plenty of said criticism is there to help. my post offered you a genuine way forward - a means to pay people (an unavoidable reality) for their time and talents - by far the biggest of all of your "hurdles". shame you didn't see that and take it on board, because it's (likely) the ONLY way your project ever truly gets off the ground. |
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Post by jimmydean on Jul 26, 2022 20:33:28 GMT
Agreed with all responses.
Are you trying to sell this to Queen Productions as a fan driven Neil Young Archives type of project?
There’s a huge conflict when saying there is no money to be made and then stating the IP will not remain with those who contribute.
And since you’re funding the domain and depending on laws in that country you would likely be the sole owner of that IP (and as a result benefit from any future sale).
It’s like you researched or know how to set the wheels in motion and set the terms so that no one would benefit but you (assuming there could ever be a financial gain). if you left all that out - the project would look more fun and as you also put it…a labor of love… rather than a Queen concert archive con-job.
Are you planning to run ads as well?
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Desert Rat
Ploughman
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Post by Desert Rat on Jul 27, 2022 6:57:40 GMT
Looks like I have to answer a few questions... jimmydean - The website, as I currently envisage it, will have no ads, no click-bait, no cons and will be totally free for all. There is no intention to sell it, only an intention to fund it for many years to come. Therefore, there is no money to be made, especially by me. @brƎИsꓘi - Maybe you are correct, and I should consider a way to monetise the idea and pay people to develop this idea, but they would need to develop it for no money with the hope that the website can be monetised angusscrimm - Incorrect, Bob is the only one who knows all of the details, because I have discussed it at length with him Lord Fickle - Agreed, I am literally asking for help without payment and as @brƎИsꓘi suggested, maybe I should look at ways to monetise this idea to fund it, maybe Ads will be a way to go, I had not even thought of Ads pg - See above, I may need to get creative regarding recompense for IP scallyuk - I think an error ridden data set is a bit harsh, I endlessly go back over my work and find small mistakes that need correcting, these small mistakes easily slip through because it needs a fresh pair of eyes to take a look. It may take 50, 100, 200, 300 hours to work through everything, I have no idea. I didn't want anyone coming forward without being aware that it may take a lot of time All - Intellectual Copyright seems touch a nerve. I wanted this to pass to the website, but credit will be given as stated, but if someone wants to write this and keep all of the code, be my guest. I have no desire to rip anyone off, only a desire to bring this to fruition Has anyone ever heard of just plain old good will or do people now think that everyone out there has the ambition to make money and screw everyone else over? That would make the world, oh yes, just like it has become today! Honestly though, I have an ambition to make this a totally free resource to the entire Queen community and if I do have to pay to get it off the ground then constructive ideas on how this could be achieved would be appreciated. |
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BrƎИsꓘi
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They called it paradise, I don't know why...You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Jul 27, 2022 11:02:22 GMT
Looks like I have to answer a few questions... @brƎИsꓘi - Maybe you are correct, and I should consider a way to monetise the idea and pay people to develop this idea, but they would need to develop it for no money with the hope that the website can be monetised Honestly though, I have an ambition to make this a totally free resource to the entire Queen community and if I do have to pay to get it off the ground then constructive ideas on how this could be achieved would be appreciated. Truthfully, no designer worth anything will work for you on the basis that you pay them from any monetised residuals. Stop and think: What do you do for a living? It's their livelihood, why do you consider it any less important than your own? Web Designers and Graphic Artists are not charities, and it's best not to approach your project as if they were. You will have to pay people for their work - you can't escape that. They will not accept a deal where any later revenue is sent to them piecemeal - that isn't how the world works. If you want to proceed with the project , do the crowd-funder/gofundme as I suggested - and ONLY proceed once you have the financial backing to pay for the project. If you do it that way around, you will find people willing to work for you. And IMPORTANT: with crowd-funding, you will need to reassure folk that - should it not go ahead - you will return their pledges. Good luck |
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Jul 27, 2022 11:04:56 GMT
Well, for a start, you could stop mystifying and actually describing what kind of "free resource to the entire Queen community" this would be. You can hardly expect people to get on board when you refuse to tell them what it is they're supposed to be getting on board with. I'm not expecting you to publish a 100-page detailed description, but you could at the very least write a paragraph describing what kind of information/material your site would contain, and how it differs from existing resources.
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highlander
Banned
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Post by highlander on Jul 27, 2022 12:46:56 GMT
In times of recession, food shortage and never ending increasing prices for everything this guy wants people to work for him for free while being well skilled and focused on a "fan project".
This is the pinnacle insolence captured in a thread.
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georg
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Post by georg on Jul 27, 2022 15:19:34 GMT
Has anyone ever heard of just plain old good will or do people now think that everyone out there has the ambition to make money and screw everyone else over? That would make the world, oh yes, just like it has become today! This is a dishonest and ignorant way of looking at the pushback to your project. You're asking for considerable time, effort, and resources from people who have bills to pay. Experience doesn't pay bills. Credit on the bottom of every page doesn't pay bills. It's your labor of love, so either compensate accordingly or expect similar pushback from wherever you go. Creative types – designers, writers, artists, musicians, etc. etc. etc. – are always the first ones to be told "oh you should be happy to have this exposure, it'll lead to greater things!" and, as a creative type for nearly 20 years now, I've been victim to the promise of "exposure", so it makes me see red whenever I people try to pull off that crock. Pay your creative types what they're worth. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Jul 27, 2022 15:39:24 GMT
To be fair to Desert Rat, I don't get the impression he set out to cause offence or intended to be dishonest with this. I think perhaps he has just been a little naive in asking for people's professional time and expertise for no financial return.
The pandemic, and now the cost of living crisis has hit virtually everyone's pockets, and I just think people's first priority is to make a living for themselves and their families. Projects like this will never get off the ground, in this current world, on the strength of good will alone. I think some good advice has been given in this thread, and crowdfunding is possibly the way to go, but even with that, people won't put money into an unknown venture.
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Raf
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Post by Raf on Jul 27, 2022 20:28:02 GMT
As a software developer currently working with websites: we, devs, often DO enjoy working for free on open source projects.
However, not the way you're proposing. You're expecting a lot of commitment and effort from us while at the same time claiming we should basically expect nothing back from you.
When we contribute to community projects, there isn't the pressure to commit hundreds of hours of our time: we contribute to discussions about bugs to be fixed or features to be added on forums, whenever we feel inspired we grab the most recent version of the code from a repository such as GitHub, we find whatever it is that we can fix or implement and commit our changes, and someone else reviews what we did and decide whether it should be merged into the main code or not.
Coding is my job. I studied several years to learn how to do that and I still study regulary to keep up-to-date with modern libraries and frameworks. I also spend over 8 hours a day, 5 days a week sitting by a computer either coding or talking to people involved in the projects. In exchange for that, I get paid good money, and I get job offers very often (as most programmers who are somewhat active in their professional network, as there are way more job openings for us right now than qualified professionals in the market). If you want me to choose to spend even more hours of my day working with code rather than doing anything else I enjoy and you won't even pay me, you don't get to make a list of demands and act as if you're doing me a favor by giving me the privilege to work for you.
It's not wrong neither rare to recruit volunteers to work on community projects, but your tone doesn't feel very inviting at all. It might be your project, but it's their years of professional experience, their years of spending the night studying and their expensive hour you're requesting, so maybe you should start consider structuring and managing your project on their terms. And by "their" I don't mean just the programmers, but pretty much anyone whose expertise you're relying on.
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Post by DotNickCore on Jul 27, 2022 21:01:43 GMT
r/choosingbeggars
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Jul 27, 2022 21:20:14 GMT
To be fair to Desert Rat, I don't get the impression he set out to cause offence or intended to be dishonest with this. I think perhaps he has just been a little naive in asking for people's professional time and expertise for no financial return. Agreed, and also Thomas's point about peeling back the curtain a bit. |
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Golden Salmon
Wordles & Heardles
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Post by Golden Salmon on Jul 27, 2022 22:17:44 GMT
I swear, if this got posted over there, they might say it's fake because it absolutely reads like the most upvoted content. I wouldn't go that far because we could attract unwanted people who would only point and laugh. I do understand wanting to gather fellow fans to contribute to a big project, but you just cannot expect qualified professionals and expert collectors to invest their time and effort on a mystery project with the proposed demands and seemingly no payoff. |
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Post by DotNickCore on Jul 28, 2022 1:20:25 GMT
I swear, if this got posted over there, they might say it's fake because it absolutely reads like the most upvoted content. I wouldn't go that far because we could attract unwanted people who would only point and laugh. I do understand wanting to gather fellow fans to contribute to a big project, but you just cannot expect qualified professionals and expert collectors to invest their time and effort on a mystery project with the proposed demands and seemingly no payoff. I am a software developer myself and I was interested in the project as well. However, after finding out that the IP for my work will not be recognized plus OP clearly doesn't demonstrate having any plans of maintaining the project for the near future. Like what Raf said, we don't mind volunteering but if it's clear that OP wants to screw people over, then it is a flat-out no from me. |
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