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Post by thefonz on Aug 25, 2022 4:15:53 GMT
Hoax? Real?
Discuss.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Aug 25, 2022 4:50:48 GMT
If it exists, we'll never hear it.
And to me it's inconsequential, as it's not even in the top 100 Queen songs.
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Golden Salmon
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Post by Golden Salmon on Aug 25, 2022 5:28:21 GMT
There have been claims regarding the existence of acetates with this song, but there's no evidence out there AFAIK. If it doesn't come out next year on a potential "Queen" 50th anniversary edition, it's never happening. Officially at least.
Anyway, we've had very good quality live versions for a while, so we're not really missing out.
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pg
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Post by pg on Aug 25, 2022 6:28:33 GMT
... a potential "Queen" 50th anniversary edition... Where's that assumption coming from? Was it announcing the Miracle for the 31st anniversary that sparked off the idea that a) QPL were going to release a load of anniversary editions and b) that round numbers were a thing?
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Post by DotNickCore on Aug 25, 2022 6:43:54 GMT
As far as I know. There is 10" acetate from the 1972 Trident sessions. Although, like every gem it's stored away in the vaults of Queen Productions. Do I care about the release? Honestly no. It is one of my least favourite Queen songs. When I play it against something from their debut album, it doesn't have that "charm" of early Queen songs.
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rylan2020
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Post by rylan2020 on Aug 25, 2022 9:13:42 GMT
I’ve heard 2 reports that John S. Stuart owns a 10" acetate. But QPL denies that a studio version ever existed. The best chance we have if it does exist is a reissue campaign.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 25, 2022 10:02:34 GMT
I’ve heard 2 reports that John S. Stuart owns a 10" acetate. But QPL denies that a studio version ever existed. The best chance we have if it does exist is a reissue campaign. John S Stuart - an avid Queen collector (who loaned items to QPL via Greg Brooks - who promptly lost said items) died a few years ago. As he's no longer around to verify (or otherwise) - and any discussion here would be nothing more than conjecture - it's possibly best to not discuss John's claims in any depth. BTW - your "reissue campaign" suggestion is a non-starter. If QPL are adamant they don't have a copy, then it can't be released, can it?
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djgreg
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Post by djgreg on Aug 25, 2022 10:07:22 GMT
I’ve heard 2 reports that John S. Stuart owns a 10" acetate. But QPL denies that a studio version ever existed. The best chance we have if it does exist is a reissue campaign. John's dead. Acetate never appeared on any auctions, so it seems like it never existed or was destroyed. Even if John had a digital copy of the audio, the chance of its leak is extremely small.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 25, 2022 10:23:01 GMT
I’ve heard 2 reports that John S. Stuart owns a 10" acetate. But QPL denies that a studio version ever existed. The best chance we have if it does exist is a reissue campaign. John S Stuart - an avid Queen collector (who loaned items to QPL via Greg Brooks - who promptly lost said items) died a few years ago. As he's no longer around to verify (or otherwise) - and any discussion here would be nothing more than conjecture - it's possibly best to not discuss John's claims in any depth. BTW - your "reissue campaign" suggestion is a non-starter. If QPL are adamant they don't have a copy, then it can't be released, can it? Agreed about JSS. A good man who was taken far too early. Re QPL, to be fair, they've been adamant in the past that no other material with Freddie existed, then things just happen to turn up once in a while. It wouldn't surprise me if the Hangman acetate does exist and it's gathering dust in Brian's attic. Whether it will ever see the light of day is one question. The other being, will any of us still be alive to hear it!
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Aug 25, 2022 10:53:38 GMT
While we are on the subject of Hangman.... Is it about the myth / legend / often told ghost strory of Sweeney Todd? Mr. T the barbers son, pork pies and cut throat razors?
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 25, 2022 11:17:33 GMT
While we are on the subject of Hangman.... Is it about the myth / legend / often told ghost strory of Sweeney Todd? Mr. T the barbers son, pork pies and cut throat razors? That might be one interpretation - but who is Mr C? I know all about you They call you Mr. T You are a barber's son You've got the rope, feel me You use, you use rope that you believe Oh, oh, I tell you
Have you made any more pork pies for me? Hangman, says you make a very nice cup of tea, oh yes you do
Hangman, hangman, waiting for me Hang that rope from the highest tree I don't want to beg for mercy Hangman, hang me, hangman, hang me I know all about you They call you, they call you Mr. C You did a very good job Oh, you'll go down, you'll go down, go down in history Baby, baby, I'm telling you
Have you made any more pies for me? Hangman, says they're very nice, they're very nice for me, oh yes they are nice
Hangman, hangman, waiting for me Hang that rope from the highest tree I don't want to beg for mercy Hangman, hang me, hang me Oooh
Hey
Hangman, why do you keep calling, why do you keep calling Why do you keep calling me, oooh, why You'll go down, you'll go down, down and down in history Baby, baby, I'm telling you, ooooh You say you're afraid of dying You say, you're just tired of living, yeah
Now you say you're tired of living Hangman says he gonna let you go Now you say you're afraid of dying Hangman, he says he won't let you go Hangman, hang me Hangman, hang me Hangman, hang me Hangman Oh, gonna see me die Gonna watch me die Oh, gonna die, gonna die, gonna die, gonna die Gonna see me, see me die
You gonna come and watch me die Hey, ooh yeah Gonna come and watch me die on a Saturday morning Gonna come and watch me die on a Saturday morning Please don't let me go, no, please don't let me go Yeah, oh yeah [?] on a Saturday morning Please don't let me go, no, please don't let me go, yeah Oh yeah, oh Gonna die in the morning, yeah
One, two, three, four, yeah, yeah Oh, let me die, please don't cry, don't cry Yeah, yeah, yeah Ohhhgenius.com/Queen-hangman-live-lyrics
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 25, 2022 12:45:12 GMT
[Whether it will ever see the light of day is one question. The other being, will any of us still be alive to hear it! there's babies being born now who will likely never hear it in their lifetimes.
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Golden Salmon
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Post by Golden Salmon on Aug 25, 2022 16:22:38 GMT
While we are on the subject of Hangman.... Is it about the myth / legend / often told ghost strory of Sweeney Todd? Mr. T the barbers son, pork pies and cut throat razors? No idea about specifics, but Freddie did say that it's about "two nasty men / two murderers".
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vh
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Post by vh on Aug 25, 2022 21:48:51 GMT
This maybe very simplistic reasoning, but Queen don’t have a history of playing any original songs that either haven’t been recorded or released at some point.
On the other hand we’re well aware of Mad The Swine being recorded but not used, at the time, or Keep Your Self Alive, different versions that surfaced many years after the 1st album and a recorded version from 75. Why wouldn’t Hang Man (despite what the official line is) exist on an acetate or even multitrack somewhere.
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chromant
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Post by chromant on Aug 26, 2022 7:49:30 GMT
I’ve heard 2 reports that John S. Stuart owns a 10" acetate. But QPL denies that a studio version ever existed. The best chance we have if it does exist is a reissue campaign. John S Stuart - an avid Queen collector (who loaned items to QPL via Greg Brooks - who promptly lost said items) died a few years ago. As he's no longer around to verify (or otherwise) - and any discussion here would be nothing more than conjecture - it's possibly best to not discuss John's claims in any depth. BTW - your "reissue campaign" suggestion is a non-starter. If QPL are adamant they don't have a copy, then it can't be released, can it? Speaking of which, do we know what happend to JSS' Queen Collection? Was it auctioned, someone inherited it?
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 26, 2022 9:31:47 GMT
Speaking of which, do we know what happend to JSS' Queen Collection? Was it auctioned, someone inherited it? well, best guess is "inherited". and, as none of his family were in "Queen circles" it's safe to assume the disposal trail went cold long ago. there may have been some stuff picked up by traders - but likely only if the family put the collection up for sale. i'd suggest that - as none of his collection has appeared in trading circles since his passing, that the stuff is (likely) still where it was when he sadly died. all just my assumptions. but all based around a lack of digital leaks in the 3years since his death. maybe the respectful thing now to park this element of the "Hangman" discussion?
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Post by The Real Wizard on Aug 26, 2022 14:14:59 GMT
As far as I know. There is 10" acetate from the 1972 Trident sessions. I once heard from a source close to the band that they demoed it circa 1974/75, but abandoned it as they considered it derivative. They played it on stage just a few more times and shelved it for good.
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Post by Brian's Wig on Aug 26, 2022 14:23:28 GMT
You know, there was clearly something about Hangman that the band decided wasn't working and the whole song was scrapped and the tapes reused. This was early 70's Britain where even the BBC reused tapes after broadcast because they were so expensive (which is why there are so many TV shows missing from the archives), so why not tapes of songs rejected by an unknown band, being reused too?
This would explain why only an acetate exists. It was common for a vinyl pressing to be made so band members and producers could take it home and listen to it outside of expensive studio time, inorder to determine if changes needed to be made.
John had a number of acetates in his collection, purchased from auction and his acetate of this song could have been the Sheffield's copy that ended up at auction.
For all we know, Brian does have his own acetate, but because there's something about the recording the band didn't like, it's easier to deny all knowledge of its existence than explain to fans why it will never be released. Queen were, after all, perfectionists.
The last time I heard from John's family, they had no plans to sell his collection.
As Brenski suggests, let's please put this to bed now.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 26, 2022 14:42:55 GMT
As far as I know. There is 10" acetate from the 1972 Trident sessions. I once heard from a source close to the band that they demoed it circa 1974/75, but abandoned it as they considered it derivative. They played it on stage just a few more times and shelved it for good.
live it certainly did sound a little "£1 shop Zeppelin".
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 26, 2022 16:51:31 GMT
There was also a rumoured studio recording of the old Rock 'n' Roll Medley (although, I don't really see why they would), which I guess might have met the same fate.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 26, 2022 16:57:05 GMT
I once heard from a source close to the band that they demoed it circa 1974/75, but abandoned it as they considered it derivative. They played it on stage just a few more times and shelved it for good. It's curious as to why they continued to play it live on occasions, right up until 1976(?), if they didn't like the song. It wasn't as if they were short of other material to play by that point. Why not just abandon it like they did the studio recording? Maybe the lyrics were changed when they did it live?
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 26, 2022 21:00:45 GMT
...and strange how they never played it at any of the early recorded/broadcast shows: Golders Green, Rainbow, Hammy
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Post by Brian's Wig on Aug 27, 2022 20:34:11 GMT
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 27, 2022 21:04:26 GMT
I just tidied up that link a little. 👍
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vh
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Post by vh on Aug 27, 2022 21:53:55 GMT
...and strange how they never played it at any of the early recorded/broadcast shows: Golders Green, Rainbow, Hammy You’ve just made me wonder with that comment. Do we know who wrote Hangman? If it was an outside writer/co writer as with Too Much Love Will Kill You could that be a reason for no studio album or official live release?
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 27, 2022 22:00:18 GMT
...and strange how they never played it at any of the early recorded/broadcast shows: Golders Green, Rainbow, Hammy You’ve just made me wonder with that comment. Do we know who wrote Hangman? If it was an outside writer/co writer as with Too Much Love Will Kill You could that be a reason for no studio album or official live release? i always thought it was written by Freddie when he was in Wreckage. but i'm sure i may have read something somewhere that contradicts my thought - labelling it a co-write: Brian [music] / Freddie [lyrics]
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vh
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Post by vh on Aug 27, 2022 22:24:59 GMT
Yeah I’d read or had been told Freddie wrote it or co wrote, you mention Wreckage, if it was a co write with members of Wreckage could that have stopped them releasing it. I know the same could be said of Do’n Alright but they obviously worked around that in the case of that song.
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Post by gambaaaa on Aug 27, 2022 22:41:00 GMT
... a potential "Queen" 50th anniversary edition... Where's that assumption coming from? Was it announcing the Miracle for the 31st anniversary that sparked off the idea that a) QPL were going to release a load of anniversary editions and b) that round numbers were a thing? Hangman videos were taken down alongside the videos of the Miracle's demos. IMHO a load of anniversary editions is too far fetched (after all we're talking about QPL...), probably they just added a list of songs that will be automatically taken down from YT if somebody decide to upload them.
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georg
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Post by georg on Aug 28, 2022 3:33:12 GMT
As far as I know. There is 10" acetate from the 1972 Trident sessions. I once heard from a source close to the band that they demoed it circa 1974/75, but abandoned it as they considered it derivative. They played it on stage just a few more times and shelved it for good.
Thats very interesting. Wonder if they thought it might work for Sheer Heart Attack as they’d recorded another Wreckage number for the album.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Aug 29, 2022 17:35:17 GMT
Sure, but that's no guarantee that it was tried out in the studio in that period. This is probably one of those things we'll never fully sort out.
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