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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 28, 2022 20:14:20 GMT
A new alternative version of Breakthru is on YouTube. It's clearly a different vocal take although the instrumental is unchanged. This is great - a bit imperfect in a couple spots, but still very enjoyable. Have similar remixes been done for any of the other songs ? |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 28, 2022 20:24:45 GMT
Breakthru is fascinating but I can't help but wish they'd given us a more complete version, with the guitar solo, only with real drums and bass. It sounds like the solo section didn't exist early on, so maybe it wasn't even recorded with real drums.
And on the final studio version it's real bass in the bridge and solo.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 28, 2022 20:26:18 GMT
Calling most of the alternative tracks ‘original take’ is off though - they’ve got fully complete vocal harmonies, some final parts, multi layered rhythm and lead guitars etc…they’re certainly not an “original take”!! Indeed - much of it is Frankensteined.
It's great that they've unearthed this much, but it's nowhere near the level of The Beatles box sets where dates and times and numbers of takes are specified, showing exactly where they were in the creative process and when.
Technicalities aside, to hear this disc was nevertheless still a very moving experience for me. By the time I got to the early run of Breakthru, all I could think of what what a crying shame it is that Freddie Mercury died so young. He never sang anything the same way twice, and there was decades of music still left in him. He was truly one in a billion.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Nov 28, 2022 20:27:55 GMT
So, how does this chart stuff work? Is this sales of the box, the 2CD set, or a combination of both? To take it to extremes, if they sold 100,000 2CD sets, and half a dozen boxes that could well pave the way for future releases. Personally I'd rather just have a standard CD of the interesting stuff, and not have great big boxes cluttering up my lounge! The 7,834 sales are boxset, picture disc, 2cds, cassette, digital dowoads and streams. Every format available. With so low sales the collectors items are not so collectables. For FIA the instrumental b/side counts as copies for the song. Thus 1 cd = 2 sales counts.....OCC rules. I wonder where are the hardcore fans in UK. |
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antonio
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Post by antonio on Nov 28, 2022 20:34:14 GMT
Tired of Queen and their re-re-re-re-releases of GH compilations....Maybe...  |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 28, 2022 20:40:53 GMT
It's a shame they didn't include an outtake or early version of Too Much Love Will Kill You on the box set. It may have presented further complications with the legalities, having two other songwriters in the mix. This is why the song took six years to be released to begin with, and may well be partly why this box set took so long to happen. Who knows. |
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emrabt
Wordles & Heardles 
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Post by emrabt on Nov 28, 2022 20:44:00 GMT
I think part of the issue is they've marketed this on the back of "Face it Alone", the public have no idea there's a sessions disc, I mean WE are rabid fans and we didn't understand how great that disc was / is...
But that said, would Joe Blogs care for these?
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Nov 28, 2022 20:44:03 GMT
Lovely set! Liked the liner notes, especially the revelation about Feel The Force... Please share. Feel The Force was available in about Feb '88, so would have to have been worked on, abandoned (as a Queen track) and diverted to The Cross in a very short amount of time. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Nov 28, 2022 20:52:22 GMT
Breakthru is fascinating but I can't help but wish they'd given us a more complete version, with the guitar solo, only with real drums and bass. It sounds like the solo section didn't exist early on, so maybe it wasn't even recorded with real drums.
And on the final studio version it's real bass in the bridge and solo.
I've got more used to it now. It just sounded a bit 'empty' at first. |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 28, 2022 21:46:33 GMT
And the sampled drums and bass? Unfortunately it was just the trend of the day. (Hell, Roger might've been the one to have suggested it!) Also, look at what was released in 1989 – no major album by a band of Queen's stature (that I can think of off the top of my head but I will be happy to be proven wrong) has the raw, live drum sound of the Sessions disc. Even The Rolling Stones' Steel Wheels, which was supposed to be their big comeback album, has a production sheen over it diluting the drum sound somewhat. We're only lamenting it 33 years later because we've had 33 years to get used to the songs, the sound, and the production, so something wildly outside the norm, as in this case, is a breath of fresh air. Bang on.
All that's coming to mind is And Justice For All by Metallica, released a year earlier. But that isn't exactly the beefiest drum sound ever.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 28, 2022 21:56:25 GMT
Controversial suggestion... Perhaps Roger not only asked for his real drums to be replaced by a drum machine, but he made the decision and that he did the programming himself?? Ditto for John's real bass.... Songwriters and performers SERVE the song.... whatever it takes... Mutt Lange always said to Def Leppard when writing songs "don't fall in love with a new song because we can change it" (massively paraphrased haha!!) OK we know Roger hated the drum machine on the original version of I Can't Live With You (and fair enough, the real drums now sound better unarguably) but so what?? The arguments in this thread are - to coin a phrase - like pride-by-proxy!! I do like the idea that Breakthru would've sounded awesome live on The Miracle Tour IF....... There was not just drum machines, it was samples of Roger drums , then programmed by David Richards. Is there any official documentation of that ?
I know Another One Bites the Dust was a loop of Roger's playing, but have never heard about any other tracks later on.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 28, 2022 21:59:11 GMT
I've had Disc 2 on rotation for most of the day, and I have to say, I'm getting more pleasure out of the different versions of songs I know, than I would anything 'new'. As ever, the ten songs released were the best ones they had. 99.99% of the time there's a good reason why songs are left unfinished. |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 28, 2022 22:13:45 GMT
Lone wolf opinion here, but I'm loving the "Frankensteined" aspect of this. Roger's Freudian slip comment is great fun, and I don't need to sift through 7 hours of outtakes to find it. I'd rather it was a listenable (and DAMN is that 2nd disc ever listenable!) 'best of' rather than every scrap. I guess I'm more interested in quality over quantity. Fair enough. But at least The Beatles box sets give buyers the option to have a more concise version of the sessions discs vs the full(er) monty. That's the ideal setup that'll surely please pretty well everyone.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 28, 2022 23:17:14 GMT
The 'new' guitar solo in Invisible Man is present right at the end of the old album version. Listen around the 4:04 mark, and then compare to the album tracks as it fades out. Am I wrong? It's indeed the same note, but on the album it sounds like a synth. |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 28, 2022 23:20:31 GMT
the lack of surround mix in the new Revolver edition has annoyed Beatles fans And I bet those Beatles fans don't understand that it's because it was recorded on four tracks, not allowing for too many possibilities in such a mix.
Sgt Pepper is where they started using multiple four-track machines, which means there were more tracks to work with.
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Post by badboybez on Nov 28, 2022 23:40:52 GMT
And the sampled drums and bass? Unfortunately it was just the trend of the day. (Hell, Roger might've been the one to have suggested it!) Also, look at what was released in 1989 – no major album by a band of Queen's stature (that I can think of off the top of my head but I will be happy to be proven wrong) has the raw, live drum sound of the Sessions disc. Even The Rolling Stones' Steel Wheels, which was supposed to be their big comeback album, has a production sheen over it diluting the drum sound somewhat. We're only lamenting it 33 years later because we've had 33 years to get used to the songs, the sound, and the production, so something wildly outside the norm, as in this case, is a breath of fresh air. Bang on.
All that's coming to mind is And Justice For All by Metallica, released a year earlier. But that isn't exactly the beefiest drum sound ever.
And no bass either! |
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mike71
Dragonfly Trumpeter
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Post by mike71 on Nov 29, 2022 0:20:16 GMT
I've had Disc 2 on rotation for most of the day, and I have to say, I'm getting more pleasure out of the different versions of songs I know, than I would anything 'new'. As ever, the ten songs released were the best ones they had. 99.99% of the time there's a good reason why songs are left unfinished. In most cases the best songs make the album, but not all the time. See what a fool I'v been is better than Loser In The End. I Go Crazy is better than Man On The Prowl and Tear It Up. Face It Alone, Guess we're Falling Out, You Belong To Me is better than Party, Rain Must Fall and My Baby Does Me. Just my opinion.....What is your opinion on this boxset? |
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Sammy B. Willickers
Ploughman
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Post by Sammy B. Willickers on Nov 29, 2022 1:20:57 GMT
I've had Disc 2 on rotation for most of the day, and I have to say, I'm getting more pleasure out of the different versions of songs I know, than I would anything 'new'. As ever, the ten songs released were the best ones they had. 99.99% of the time there's a good reason why songs are left unfinished. I'm guessing that .01% is for Dancer and Party?  |
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georg
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Post by georg on Nov 29, 2022 1:32:45 GMT
As ever, the ten songs released were the best ones they had. 99.99% of the time there's a good reason why songs are left unfinished. In most cases the best songs make the album, but not all the time. See what a fool I'v been is better than Loser In The End. I Go Crazy is better than Man On The Prowl and Tear It Up. Face It Alone, Guess we're Falling Out, You Belong To Me is better than Party, Rain Must Fall and My Baby Does Me. Just my opinion.....What is your opinion on this boxset? See What a Fool might be the “better” track (I don’t think it is, though I certainly see its strengths), but it doesn’t fit the loose “theme” of the album (good vs evil, parent vs child). I Go Crazy, I agree is better, but Brian’s said that the other three hated it and refused to let it on the album. My Baby Does Me was deliberately written as a light chaser between Scandal and Was It All Worth It. I’m not trying to nitpick your post, because yeah, Queen put out some stinkers every now and then – but, like it or not, they always made the best decision based on their criteria. I would’ve loved it if they developed I Guess and You Know further, because there is potential, but they chose not to develop them any further, unfortunately. (That being said, I have my own alternate timeline versions of some of the albums, so I do get what you’re saying and agree with you!) |
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Nov 29, 2022 10:18:13 GMT
There was not just drum machines, it was samples of Roger drums , then programmed by David Richards. Is there any official documentation of that ?
I know Another One Bites the Dust was a loop of Roger's playing, but have never heard about any other tracks later on.
Here is what David said: The drums are a combination of real drums and samples put into an AMS digital delay. Most of the drums on the first side of the album are real, but where there's a synth bass, you're usually listening to sampled drums. All the drum sounds come from Roger's kit, though; it sounds a bit purist but it's worth doing in the end - if you use other people's sounds you'll soon lose the identity of the band. www.muzines.co.uk/articles/david-richards/5631 |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Nov 29, 2022 18:13:16 GMT
Is there any official documentation of that ?
I know Another One Bites the Dust was a loop of Roger's playing, but have never heard about any other tracks later on.
Here is what David said: The drums are a combination of real drums and samples put into an AMS digital delay. Most of the drums on the first side of the album are real, but where there's a synth bass, you're usually listening to sampled drums. All the drum sounds come from Roger's kit, though; it sounds a bit purist but it's worth doing in the end - if you use other people's sounds you'll soon lose the identity of the band. www.muzines.co.uk/articles/david-richards/5631Thanks. That's a very insightful piece. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Nov 29, 2022 21:58:05 GMT
Every time I hear it, I wonder what the thinking was behind attaching that 'jazzy' bit to the start of I Want It All. It clearly doesn't fit into the song, and doesn't sound like it was ever meant to, plus, it's a terrible edit into the 'proper' intro. Maybe they just wanted to include it somewhere, as it sounds a fun jam, but why there? It might almost have been better as one of those little hidden tracks at the end of the CD, or they could have given us the track it 'belongs' to. Just weird.
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Post by deathtoming on Nov 30, 2022 2:56:56 GMT
Every time I hear it, I wonder what the thinking was behind attaching that 'jazzy' bit to the start of I Want It All. It clearly doesn't fit into the song, and doesn't sound like it was ever meant to, plus, it's a terrible edit into the 'proper' intro. Maybe they just wanted to include it somewhere, as it sounds a fun jam, but why there? It might almost have been better as one of those little hidden tracks at the end of the CD, or they could have given us the track it 'belongs' to. Just weird. It's a jarring segue for sure, but I could see them considering it at some point, since other songs seem to have a few clobbered-together bits, like the ending to The Miracle, the beginning of Breakthru, and the ending to Hang On in There. I quite like it, as it reminds me of some of the somewhat eclectic transitions from their earlier albums. |
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donovan
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Post by donovan on Nov 30, 2022 3:00:44 GMT
Every time I hear it, I wonder what the thinking was behind attaching that 'jazzy' bit to the start of I Want It All. It clearly doesn't fit into the song, and doesn't sound like it was ever meant to, plus, it's a terrible edit into the 'proper' intro. Maybe they just wanted to include it somewhere, as it sounds a fun jam, but why there? It might almost have been better as one of those little hidden tracks at the end of the CD, or they could have given us the track it 'belongs' to. Just weird. Given that a snippet of that ended up in mid-section of Was it All Worth It, I can only speculate that at some point they were thinking of joining/medly-ing the two songs. And the only way to find out that it's a terrible edit into I Want It All was to at least try it? |
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cmi
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Post by cmi on Nov 30, 2022 7:35:19 GMT
Every time I hear it, I wonder what the thinking was behind attaching that 'jazzy' bit to the start of I Want It All. It clearly doesn't fit into the song, and doesn't sound like it was ever meant to, plus, it's a terrible edit into the 'proper' intro. Maybe they just wanted to include it somewhere, as it sounds a fun jam, but why there? It might almost have been better as one of those little hidden tracks at the end of the CD, or they could have given us the track it 'belongs' to. Just weird. Yes, this fake transition is the weirdest thing on the whole Sessions CD. This 'I want it... I want it...' snippet out of place as a link. |
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Nov 30, 2022 8:07:20 GMT
Every time I hear it, I wonder what the thinking was behind attaching that 'jazzy' bit to the start of I Want It All. It clearly doesn't fit into the song, and doesn't sound like it was ever meant to, plus, it's a terrible edit into the 'proper' intro. Maybe they just wanted to include it somewhere, as it sounds a fun jam, but why there? It might almost have been better as one of those little hidden tracks at the end of the CD, or they could have given us the track it 'belongs' to. Just weird. I thought it was part of hang on in there toward the end just before Def leppard style ending. Now I think it was meant to be during the fast part of IWIA. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Nov 30, 2022 10:06:05 GMT
Every time I hear it, I wonder what the thinking was behind attaching that 'jazzy' bit to the start of I Want It All. It clearly doesn't fit into the song, and doesn't sound like it was ever meant to, plus, it's a terrible edit into the 'proper' intro. Maybe they just wanted to include it somewhere, as it sounds a fun jam, but why there? It might almost have been better as one of those little hidden tracks at the end of the CD, or they could have given us the track it 'belongs' to. Just weird. It's a jarring segue for sure, but I could see them considering it at some point, since other songs seem to have a few clobbered-together bits, like the ending to The Miracle, the beginning of Breakthru, and the ending to Hang On in There. I quite like it, as it reminds me of some of the somewhat eclectic transitions from their earlier albums. Yeah but those other examples actually work, to some extent. I could never see that part being an intro to, or any other part of, IWIA, especially as they've made it sound like an impromptu jam. I guess it could have been an idea for what became the fast part, but why cobble it on to the beginning? It just seems an odd placement, given most of the other stitched together stuff sounds quite convincing. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Nov 30, 2022 10:11:17 GMT
Every time I hear it, I wonder what the thinking was behind attaching that 'jazzy' bit to the start of I Want It All. It clearly doesn't fit into the song, and doesn't sound like it was ever meant to, plus, it's a terrible edit into the 'proper' intro. Maybe they just wanted to include it somewhere, as it sounds a fun jam, but why there? It might almost have been better as one of those little hidden tracks at the end of the CD, or they could have given us the track it 'belongs' to. Just weird. Given that a snippet of that ended up in mid-section of Was it All Worth It, I can only speculate that at some point they were thinking of joining/medly-ing the two songs. And the only way to find out that it's a terrible edit into I Want It All was to at least try it? But then leave it? Don't forget, these aren't single takes - they're all patched together from bits and pieces. As I said above, it just seems odd that they shoehorned that part in where it clearly doesn't fit. There may be a reason behind it, in which case it might have been nice if they'd given us a bit of a synopsis of each track, and how they were developed. I'd find that sort of stuff much more interesting than a wall poster. |
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Vali
Tatterdemalion
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Post by Vali on Nov 30, 2022 12:32:57 GMT
Wanted to comment since I received the box, but days pass and we´re at page 25 already!
Disc 2 is pure gold and can´t get tired of listening to it. Specially Party, The Miracle (love how they´ve mixed "new" and old bits ... and that ending, wow!), Breakthru (it´s like listening to a performance of "The Miracle Tour" we never had) and .. both Brian songs, yes! "You Know You belong To Me" sounds pretty much like a finished track to me. Both are lovely songs. I´m not disliking any single second of the disc!
Low points:
- missing much detailed information on the recording sessions (we all knew this was going to happen)
- the videoclips: IWIA looks spectacular but the rest look worse than ever
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Bul
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Post by Bul on Nov 30, 2022 16:35:24 GMT
It's strange, but Breakthru doesn't sound like a Miracle Tour to me, rather like a studio jam like When This Old Tired Body. I also wanted to mention how much the Breakthru demo smacks of plagiarism on Boys Of Summer, which makes me think the album version is the best)
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