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Post by saintjiub on Jan 12, 2024 3:48:42 GMT
The Real Wizard's "Starter Kit" list in the below topic has been very helpful for me in picking concerts for downloading over the years: queenchat.boards.net/thread/831/list-best-sourcesWhat is your favorite audience recorded concert NOT in The Real Wizard's "Starting Kit"?My favorite is Ryan Newton's "matrix" of three sources for the 1986-06-11 Groenoordhallen, Leiden concert: queenchat.boards.net/thread/194/1986-06-queen-groenoordhallen-matrixThe sound for this concert is only rated "B+", but the audience is absolutely bonkers in this show, plus it has the "full version" of Friends Will be Friends. All I can say is "OLE! OLE!" ... but perhaps I am getting carried away by the audience ... |
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florians
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Post by florians on Jan 12, 2024 21:31:46 GMT
I would go for Stuttgart 1984. I have a soft Spot for the 1984 Leg of the Works Tour, and I really like the Energy of that Show, even though the best Remasters may not be better than a B or maybe B+.
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Post by mrqueenguy on Jan 13, 2024 10:25:05 GMT
For me it's Leiden 1982, the first night. It's the first concert outside of official material I ever listened to and I love the audience participation and energy you can hear on the recording (like on Love Of My Life, Liar and Save Me)
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manymilesaway
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Post by manymilesaway on Jan 13, 2024 22:06:48 GMT
IMO Ryan Newton's "Classic Queen Shows" playlist was by far the best starter kit, too bad it's gone. Great balance of tape quality and actual performance.
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lumi
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Post by lumi on Jan 14, 2024 1:09:07 GMT
My vote goes to Newcastle 1979, the second night (the first night is also a very fine performance, too bad the sound quality of the source is only B-). Amazing renditions of '39, Liar and Spread Your Wings.
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rub3945
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Post by rub3945 on Jan 14, 2024 8:35:19 GMT
Still can't get over the ridiculous energy from San Diego 1980. Especially for a US show in that era, that atmosphere is special! Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Freddie and Roger had a line or two before going out. Their moments of spontaneity just set the show over the top for me. It's the perfect storm in my opinion. Start of the tour, they're still experimenting with the setlist, Freddie's vocal confidence is at an all time high, and then everything else I've mentioned!
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Post by Ryan Newton on Jan 20, 2024 5:27:04 GMT
Of course, Bob's list is great because it is all the legendary shows with excellent audio quality, but there are a few notable omissions.
Gothenburg and Copenhagen 1977 are both excellent audience recordings, and I think many people would agree that they are at least on par if not better than Earls Court in terms of the performance.
San Diego 1980 is another great recording, and the earliest of the 1980s. A loose yet fantastic show with Freddie giving one of his best performances ever. Also includes the earliest recordings of Play the Game, Rock It, and a rare reference to Ming's Theme.
Stuttgart 1984 is another obvious one. Great sound quality, and a far better performance than Birmingham 9/2. I wouldn't even include that show as it's not one of the better gigs from the tour. Stuttgart is one of Freddie's most mega vocals ever.
Leiden 6/11/86 is another one of their most legendary shows. Even if the sound quality isn't as excellent as some of the other inclusions, it's still one of their best shows ever.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Jan 20, 2024 12:35:10 GMT
Of course, Bob's list is great because it is all the legendary shows with excellent audio quality, but there are a few notable omissions. Gothenburg and Copenhagen 1977 are both excellent audience recordings, and I think many people would agree that they are at least on par if not better than Earls Court in terms of the performance. I remember having the Copenhagen (Broendby Hall, May 12th, 1977) - A Night At The Warehouse boot on audio tape more than 30 years ago and marvelling at the quality of the recording and performance. When things went digital, the tape got lost. |
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vh
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Post by vh on Jan 20, 2024 16:34:04 GMT
Of course, Bob's list is great because it is all the legendary shows with excellent audio quality, but there are a few notable omissions. Gothenburg and Copenhagen 1977 are both excellent audience recordings, and I think many people would agree that they are at least on par if not better than Earls Court in terms of the performance. I remember having the Copenhagen (Broendby Hall, May 12th, 1977) - A Night At The Warehouse boot on audio tape more than 30 years ago and marvelling at the quality of the recording and performance. When things went digital, the tape got lost. It still sounds great today. I’m lucky enough to have it on double vinyl gatefold sleeve. It always made me wish that they had released an official live album from that tour! |
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kosimodo
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Post by kosimodo on Jan 20, 2024 16:56:24 GMT
I was there to join the fun. At the concert i was amazed about everybody singing along (just like me) with f.e. WWTLF. The album was in store just 6 days before! |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 15, 2024 2:08:26 GMT
Stuttgart 1984 is another obvious one. Great sound quality, and a far better performance than Birmingham 9/2. I wouldn't even include that show as it's not one of the better gigs from the tour. Stuttgart is one of Freddie's most mega vocals ever. The starter kit leans more towards sound quality over performance. It's between Birmingham 9/2 and Milan 9/14 for the best sounding audience tape from that year, and Stuttgart is notch below due to audience noise. But for sure it's the best performance of the three, so I added it to the list. Good call. As for the other shows mentioned - they're all favourites of mine too, but the sound quality just isn't up to snuff (even 5/12/77, as it's so boomy compared to the Boston and Inglewood tapes). |
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Post by beyondthemoon on Feb 16, 2024 4:03:58 GMT
I think there's too much deference given to sound quality with the existing list. Not to say that isn't important of course but there are some performances on that list ranging from okay to mediocre.
A possible replacement list I came up with goes as follows. I'm largely following a rule of three shows per tour:
1973-09-13 London
1973-11-17 Liverpool (I can't say I'm super enthusiastic about this choice but it's the most pleasant listening experience for a Queen I opening slot)
1974-04-28 Portland
1974-12-06 Cologne (this tape is not the greatest but it's an amazing show and this list would not be complete without 74 Sheer Heart Attack. Japan gets vastly overrepresented in discussions of this tour and shows like this should be done justice.)
1975-04-29 Kakegawa (great sounding tape and a very rare full Jailhouse Rock medley for this tour. Quite possibly Freddie's best Sheer Heart Attack show)
1975-05-01 Tokyo
1975-12-13 Dundee (not the greatest sound quality but it's more than listenable and 75 Opera is vastly underappreciated. This is also a severely underrated show and stands up to the best 76 shows even)
1976-01-30 Boston
1976-03-31 Tokyo (side note: I think the original tape is a vastly better listen than the matrix)
1977-03-03 LA
1977-05-12 Copenhagen (included for the sake of a mainland Europe show and in great sound quality)
1977-06-06 London
1977-12-11 Houston
1977-12-20 Long Beach
1978-04-13 Copenhagen
1978-11-14 Providence
1978-12-07 Chicago (breaking the three shows rule. No beginner needs to hear any 79 Jazz outside of the bits of Munich we have) 1979-12-04 Newcastle (not A quality but very easy tape to listen to. Amazing show plus the only Crazy tour Liar on tape)
1979-12-26 London
1980-07-05 San Diego (it better represents July 80 than Oakland and I think it sounds good enough to be on this list)
1980-12-08 London
1981-03-08 Buenos Aires 1982-04-28 Frankfurt (great sound quality and it's one of the better Hot Space shows with Liar. That said I struggled with this. If not for sound quality, 4/24 Leiden would be here)
1982-05-12 Vienna
1982-10-24 Nishinomiya (better sound quality and performance than Sapporo, although I am sad that Teo Torriatte is not on this list now...)
1984-08-31 Birmingham (much better performance than September 2nd, still on a great sounding tape. Killer instrumentation and Freddie's voice sounds much better than even one or two nights later)
1984-10-19 Sun City
1985-05-09 Tokyo
1986-06-11 Leiden (Ryan Newton's matrix brings the sound quality up to par IMO)
1986-07-19 Cologne (a very solid and good sounding show from the second part of the tour)
My hope is that this has a better performance quality to sound quality balance than the existing list.
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fcb101
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Post by fcb101 on Feb 16, 2024 15:44:27 GMT
I think there's too much deference given to sound quality with the existing list. Not to say that isn't important of course but there are some performances on that list ranging from okay to mediocre.
A possible replacement list I came up with goes as follows. I'm largely following a rule of three shows per tour:
1973-09-13 London
1973-11-17 Liverpool (I can't say I'm super enthusiastic about this choice but it's the most pleasant listening experience for a Queen I opening slot)
1974-04-28 Portland
1974-12-06 Cologne (this tape is not the greatest but it's an amazing show and this list would not be complete without 74 Sheer Heart Attack. Japan gets vastly overrepresented in discussions of this tour and shows like this should be done justice.)
1975-04-29 Kakegawa (great sounding tape and a very rare full Jailhouse Rock medley for this tour. Quite possibly Freddie's best Sheer Heart Attack show)
1975-05-01 Tokyo
1975-12-13 Dundee (not the greatest sound quality but it's more than listenable and 75 Opera is vastly underappreciated. This is also a severely underrated show and stands up to the best 76 shows even)
1976-01-30 Boston
1976-03-31 Tokyo (side note: I think the original tape is a vastly better listen than the matrix)
1977-03-03 LA
1977-05-12 Copenhagen (included for the sake of a mainland Europe show and in great sound quality)
1977-06-06 London
1977-12-11 Houston
1977-12-20 Long Beach
1978-04-13 Copenhagen
1978-11-14 Providence
1978-12-07 Chicago (breaking the three shows rule. No beginner needs to hear any 79 Jazz outside of the bits of Munich we have)
1979-12-26 London
1980-07-05 San Diego (it better represents July 80 than Oakland and I think it sounds good enough to be on this list)
1980-12-08 London
1981-03-08 Buenos Aires 1982-04-28 Frankfurt (great sound quality and it's one of the better Hot Space shows with Liar. That said I struggled with this. If not for sound quality, 4/24 Leiden would be here)
1982-05-12 Vienna
1982-10-24 Nishinomiya (better sound quality and performance than Sapporo, although I am sad that Teo Torriatte is not on this list now...)
1984-08-31 Birmingham (much better performance than September 2nd, still on a great sounding tape. Killer instrumentation and Freddie's voice sounds much better than even one or two nights later)
1984-10-19 Sun City
1985-05-09 Tokyo
1986-06-11 Leiden (Ryan Newton's matrix brings the sound quality up to par IMO)
1986-07-19 Cologne (a very solid and good sounding show from the second part of the tour)
My hope is that this has a better performance quality to sound quality balance than the existing list.
Sound quality is very important to be able to enjoy a show. I think that shows in less than A minus quality are simply not a good idea to include in the starters kit. Shows like Cologne 74 or Dundee 75 are simply not good enough in terms of sound. Once people enjoy all the great sounding stuff they will dig deeper and then also enjoy the fab stuff like (for me) Bristol and Glasgow 77, Glasgow 73, Newcastle 79, etc. I consider this to be shows for people used to listening to amateur recordings. And there's also taste of course. I'd always pick Vancouver (or NY second night) over Providence 78 for example. |
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Post by beyondthemoon on Feb 16, 2024 16:22:45 GMT
Sound quality is very important to be able to enjoy a show. I think that shows in less than A minus quality are simply not a good idea to include in the starters kit. Shows like Cologne 74 or Dundee 75 are simply not good enough in terms of sound. Once people enjoy all the great sounding stuff they will dig deeper and then also enjoy the fab stuff like (for me) Bristol and Glasgow 77, Glasgow 73, Newcastle 79, etc. I consider this to be shows for people used to listening to amateur recordings. And there's also taste of course. I'd always pick Vancouver (or NY second night) over Providence 78 for example. I think in those two cases, one must be able to look past sound quality for the sake of representation. It wouldn't be a well rounded list without a non-Japan SHA show or a 75 Opera show IMO, and those tapes, while not A quality, are not at all difficult to listen to. There aren't any better sounding tapes that would be suitable alternatives. I would not use Vancouver 78 because Freddie is in weaker shape, nor would I use 11/17 because of the constant switching between sources, not to mention the difference in quality between them. |
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fcb101
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Post by fcb101 on Feb 16, 2024 17:18:53 GMT
Sound quality is very important to be able to enjoy a show. I think that shows in less than A minus quality are simply not a good idea to include in the starters kit. Shows like Cologne 74 or Dundee 75 are simply not good enough in terms of sound. Once people enjoy all the great sounding stuff they will dig deeper and then also enjoy the fab stuff like (for me) Bristol and Glasgow 77, Glasgow 73, Newcastle 79, etc. I consider this to be shows for people used to listening to amateur recordings. And there's also taste of course. I'd always pick Vancouver (or NY second night) over Providence 78 for example. I think in those two cases, one must be able to look past sound quality for the sake of representation. It wouldn't be a well rounded list without a non-Japan SHA show or a 75 Opera show IMO, and those tapes, while not A quality, are not at all difficult to listen to. There aren't any better sounding tapes that would be suitable alternatives. I would not use Vancouver 78 because Freddie is in weaker shape, nor would I use 11/17 because of the constant switching between sources, not to mention the difference in quality between them. We have to bear in mind that people will normally start with the official stuff. They will know 1974 SHA from the Rainbow release. And Hammy '75 for ANATO. Even if that one is missing a lot of (essential) songs it gives a good idea of what the band sounded like during this period. A bit of a different discussion maybe but the true pity is that QPL isn't at all interested in releases only for the die-hards. From what we know (and I'm sure there's a lot we do not know!) there's the possibility of offering us sbd's of all those historic concerts...That would really fill in the gaps we now have. |
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manymilesaway
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Post by manymilesaway on Feb 16, 2024 18:42:14 GMT
I think in those two cases, one must be able to look past sound quality for the sake of representation. It wouldn't be a well rounded list without a non-Japan SHA show or a 75 Opera show IMO, and those tapes, while not A quality, are not at all difficult to listen to. There aren't any better sounding tapes that would be suitable alternatives. I would not use Vancouver 78 because Freddie is in weaker shape, nor would I use 11/17 because of the constant switching between sources, not to mention the difference in quality between them. We have to bear in mind that people will normally start with the official stuff. They will know 1974 SHA from the Rainbow release. And Hammy '75 for ANATO. Even if that one is missing a lot of (essential) songs it gives a good idea of what the band sounded like during this period. Gotta disagree with that, especially for Hammy '75. You really miss a lot with that shortened set, in fact I think the contrast between the Hammersmith '75 release and a bootleg shows you just how much you'd be missing if you'd only stuck with the official stuff. I really think that restricting a starter kit to be that 'sanitized' of low quality tapes can really restrict someone's enjoyment on even some decent, B+ tapes. I personally agree with the mixture of high quality and medium quality tapes for beginners. It gives a good sense of "hey there's great shows on bad tapes, but you'll get used to them." That's how I started off, after all. I think Ryan Newton's presentation was the best way to go. The playlist "Classic Queen Shows" was a playlist that found a balance of performance and tape quality, and sort of showcased the essential performances, whether it were high quality or not. But, he also had a "Best-Sounding Bootlegs" playlist, which had all of the high quality tapes, regardless of how good their performance was (lots of Japan '79, for example.) Really helped show me that good shows can be on bad tapes, and bad shows can be on good tapes. |
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manymilesaway
Politician
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Post by manymilesaway on Feb 16, 2024 18:50:42 GMT
I think there's too much deference given to sound quality with the existing list. Not to say that isn't important of course but there are some performances on that list ranging from okay to mediocre.
A possible replacement list I came up with goes as follows. I'm largely following a rule of three shows per tour:
1973-09-13 London
1973-11-17 Liverpool (I can't say I'm super enthusiastic about this choice but it's the most pleasant listening experience for a Queen I opening slot)
1974-04-28 Portland
1974-12-06 Cologne (this tape is not the greatest but it's an amazing show and this list would not be complete without 74 Sheer Heart Attack. Japan gets vastly overrepresented in discussions of this tour and shows like this should be done justice.)
1975-04-29 Kakegawa (great sounding tape and a very rare full Jailhouse Rock medley for this tour. Quite possibly Freddie's best Sheer Heart Attack show)
1975-05-01 Tokyo
1975-12-13 Dundee (not the greatest sound quality but it's more than listenable and 75 Opera is vastly underappreciated. This is also a severely underrated show and stands up to the best 76 shows even)
1976-01-30 Boston
1976-03-31 Tokyo (side note: I think the original tape is a vastly better listen than the matrix)
1977-03-03 LA
1977-05-12 Copenhagen (included for the sake of a mainland Europe show and in great sound quality)
1977-06-06 London
1977-12-11 Houston
1977-12-20 Long Beach
1978-04-13 Copenhagen
1978-11-14 Providence
1978-12-07 Chicago (breaking the three shows rule. No beginner needs to hear any 79 Jazz outside of the bits of Munich we have) 1979-12-04 Newcastle (not A quality but very easy tape to listen to. Amazing show plus the only Crazy tour Liar on tape)
1979-12-26 London
1980-07-05 San Diego (it better represents July 80 than Oakland and I think it sounds good enough to be on this list)
1980-12-08 London
1981-03-08 Buenos Aires 1982-04-28 Frankfurt (great sound quality and it's one of the better Hot Space shows with Liar. That said I struggled with this. If not for sound quality, 4/24 Leiden would be here)
1982-05-12 Vienna
1982-10-24 Nishinomiya (better sound quality and performance than Sapporo, although I am sad that Teo Torriatte is not on this list now...)
1984-08-31 Birmingham (much better performance than September 2nd, still on a great sounding tape. Killer instrumentation and Freddie's voice sounds much better than even one or two nights later)
1984-10-19 Sun City
1985-05-09 Tokyo
1986-06-11 Leiden (Ryan Newton's matrix brings the sound quality up to par IMO)
1986-07-19 Cologne (a very solid and good sounding show from the second part of the tour)
My hope is that this has a better performance quality to sound quality balance than the existing list.
I would also personally replace San Diego with Oakland cause it's just overall a tighter show, even if it's missing the loose and fun energy from San Diego. Plus I'm biased towards STL. For the sake of '79 Jazz, I'd throw in 4/20/79 Osaka. Good quality and Freddie's actually not bad. Brings Teo back into the mix, too. I'd add Knebworth for historical reasons, and the fact that you're missing 1 Magic Tour show. I may also think Bristol or Gothenburg would be better picks for the Races tour than Copenhagen, the quality of both are pretty good and I think are generally tighter than Copenhagen. |
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Post by beyondthemoon on Feb 16, 2024 20:19:23 GMT
I think Ryan Newton's presentation was the best way to go. The playlist "Classic Queen Shows" was a playlist that found a balance of performance and tape quality, and sort of showcased the essential performances, whether it were high quality or not. But, he also had a "Best-Sounding Bootlegs" playlist, which had all of the high quality tapes, regardless of how good their performance was (lots of Japan '79, for example.) Really helped show me that good shows can be on bad tapes, and bad shows can be on good tapes. Maybe it'd be worth having a few separate lists (not on the best sources thread of course) but in general, I like the idea of "best beginner shows", "best shows overall", "best sounding shows", and "deep cuts". |
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