manymilesaway
Politician
Cookin' up remasters
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Post by manymilesaway on Sept 12, 2024 18:37:49 GMT
Interesting, the opening drums on TNCD don't have as much impact as the original in my opinion, so out of curiosity, I EQed them to match what's on the original mix. I dig it. What do you think? An idea for those out there who specialize with instrument separation 🤔 Not big on this, sounds too sharp and implements hiss the way you did it. |
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oreno
Ploughman
Posts: 269 
Likes: 364
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Post by oreno on Sept 12, 2024 18:45:17 GMT
My thoughts (not that anyone cares)
Queen I - why not. Marks it out as an album in itself, distinct from the original, with amended artwork. And sets us up nicely for Queen II (I hope). We've all been calling it that colloquially for decades anyway.
Freddie autotune on TNCD - spotted it straight off but actually, on a remix I don't mind at all. The whole track sounds brighter and clearer, and it works in that context, an alternate mix.
The drums through - triggered drums? They can get right in the bin. The lovely, woody, earthy 'crack' of the original was the best drum sound on the album! However I guess it's to make it in keeping with the rest of the remixed tracks (which I therefore await with some trepidation).
I note that once again (Rainbow, Odeon) John Deacon's bass is, compared to the original mixes, smudged into near inaudibility. Hmm.
The overall mix is quite a treat though.. yes it's full of modern-sounding echo and so on, but the newly unearthed musical detail is lovely. More of this please.
And we are apparently getting a proper De Lane Lea remix.. is the original TNCD the one album track we'll also get a 'clean' (non triggered, non-autotuned) remix of, then? Yes I heartily pray that the DLL 'new mix' is comparatively unmeddled with. Let DLL sound like it's a clean mix from 1971, please.
The other content - well yeah, no surprises that there's a bare minimum of actual new stuff. Rainbow, got it thanks, at the BBC, got it thanks (twice). But obviously the 'sessions', and unreleased live tracks (all three of them!) are still a very, very big draw indeed.
OK. I might buy it.
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Sept 12, 2024 18:52:32 GMT
That was one way, but it's clear from the BO Rhap multitrack that mixing in from different performances during mixing is a capability There's a big difference between dropping a vocal onto a new track to literally splicing a bit of tape from a completely different take. it wasn't the same process as copying a single note from a different take of a song. If they wanted Fred to try singing that line one more time and drop it in, that's easy to do and they could have done it. But the suggestion here is that they may have taken a couple of notes from a different take and dropped those in. That was a lot of effort. You wouldn't even think about doing it that way in 1973. When you splice tape, you have to splice ALL the tracks, you cant just take the vocal from tracks 3 and 4 and retain the instrumentation from tracks 1,2 and 5-16. Every time you change something with Analogue you lose something. If you overlay a vocal onto the vocal track, you can never get back what was there before. Technically, yes you can do it by recording onto different tape and bouncing it, but the effort required to get a single note from take 3 and mix it into the recording of take 5 would be far more difficult than it is these days, when you literally just click a couple of mouse buttons. So yes, it was possible, but they didn't have the time, money or clout to be able to make that happen in 1973. They were unknown. It was ALL Analogue, it is ridiculous how comparatively expensive it would be to change a few notes back then as it is now. These days, stick everything into pro tools and cut and paste to your hearts content. And that's allllllll IF another take exists at all. ...for which there is ZERO evidence. |
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Sept 12, 2024 18:56:40 GMT
Methinks it's the hardcover book that brings the price of the Queen box up. That's entirely valid. How much was the "40 years of Queen" hardback book with reproduction memorabilia and a single CD of (half) the 1977 BBC interview? Admittedly it was only 96 pages, but it's a decent benchmark.... |
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luke1982
Tatterdemalion
Posts: 13
Likes: 32
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Post by luke1982 on Sept 12, 2024 18:59:56 GMT
I'm 42 and deaf enough that I can't hear any autotune  Yes, I'll buy this box because it has a lot of material that you couldn't even dream of over 30 years ago  |
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Post by Brian's Wig on Sept 12, 2024 19:51:37 GMT
Methinks it's the hardcover book that brings the price of the Queen box up. Another book full of pictures no doubt, and little text. If they HAVE taken a leaf out of the Beatles boxset books, I'll be very (pleasantly) surprised! (And I may just stop moaning about it! LOL) |
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Post by snakecharmer on Sept 12, 2024 21:01:16 GMT
I think it's a bit out of my price range £182 for the box set on Amazon at the moment , being on disability benefits and with the cost of living ,winter coming and fuel prices due to go up . I would really love to have it but times are a bit hard at the moment. Maybe there might be a smaller release without the vinyl as I have not even got a record player.
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Post by mercurialfreddie on Sept 12, 2024 21:02:16 GMT
So... a few honest words: Since the promise of the anthology we have all been waiting for something big and with each year the feeling of being given an empty promise has been growing. The 2011 was like being allowed a small, small glimpse into the archives with De Lane Lea Demos taken from Brian May's own acetate and that of course concerns only the treatment that the debut album got at that time. Did we see many lost opportunities with some of the choices for the second cd of the deluxe editions back then ? Yes, we did. QueenZone was not a forgiving place and GB had his ass handed to him more than once. Now, in 2024, after having seen and analysed all the Deluxe editions and Collector's editions we should be wiser and instantly recognise some of the strategy used by QPL. They are great at teasing and amazing at rehashing already-released material. This is an important matter because when something has been already released or has been out in the open for some time (like Hammy 75') then a company, the master of the intellectual property of said material has a chance to put its own stamp to it and do it with class and style. That was very important for Freddie and it's evident even in the attention to detail that Freddie had put into the design of the first few albums. People tend to forget what it was like when Freddie was around and the new album was heading our way. Now, back to QPL's strategy... Why did we get only one song from the Hammy 75' rehearsal and on a vinyl format ? Why did not they release any audio from the other 1975 Hammersmith shows when they decided to release it as their own standalone product if it is true that Mike Stone (please correct me here if I am mistaken) truly had been recording their early shows ?
When you look at the QI Box Set... it looks beautiful, the idea is here, the right thinking is here! : studio recordings, out-takes, tracks recorded during live gigs. The only missing thing is the video material (early shows / interviews / promotional video-clips and promo rushes). Then you read the track-listing and you recognize the old patterns : tracks that had already been released for a different QPL's project, scattering few tracks over one CD which should not take place if Brian is such a pro-environment person. The crucial matter here is that this is THE debut album. We're talking about four crazy creative and innovative guys but inexperienced in studio and having their first attempts at defining "their" sound and getting it right! They were learning, making mistakes, errors, retreading and laying down on tracks what they deemed at that time as best. It is supposed not to be perfect. Then why remix whole album so it is pitch-perfect and sounds very modern ? I choose not to believe that this product is meant for the auto-tune Tik-Tok generation, lacking the attention span to care about pitch correction or totally changed sound, atmosphere, dynamics and overall vibe of the original studio recording.
Pitch correction applied to Freddie's vocals makes them sound robotic and inhuman. Even if subtle, you can discern how everything in the newly remixed The Night Comes Down track flows perfectly in his voice, which ultimately sacrifices authenticity for something flawless, which is not at all being respectful of the dead artist who had put his heart and soul into his vocal takes. Again, this is the debut album, recorded when Freddie's voice was at its most youthful and immaculate... why screw it up ?
I am eager to hear My Fairy King's backing track or the Trident Backing Track In Development... but having heard the The Night Comes Down remix imagine melodyne applied to the My Fairy King : Freddie's falsetto, and all the track's glorious backing vocals, chorus, the last Freddie's line "I cannot hiiiiiiide"... Would have Freddie loved it ?
I get that Roger has been very vocal about hating the drum sound on that album and I understand that he was pushing for a new mix, but he's a big Hendrix fan and the drum sound isn't all that great on some of his early records, the same with early Who that he also loves. Would he want digital echo and the sound to be artificially changed on those? I highly doubt it, so why does he think it's acceptable to do this to music that means as much to other people as that does to him?
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NathanH
Politician
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Post by NathanH on Sept 12, 2024 21:18:58 GMT
I get all these negative comments questioning the new mix but it's amazing how many people are commenting that the album sounds worse. Especially when you're judging it on one song (and the only one recorded in a different studio).
Really what I wanted to say is the album has been out for more than fifty years. Everyone is so used to hearing it the old version. So it'll take a few listens to get used to it. Yesterday when I heard the new mix of The Night Comes Down I continually repeated the first few seconds probably about ten times as I shocked how different it sounded. But now I've listened to it maybe 8-10 times, and I think it's sounds clearer. I don't think the autotune is that noticeable, I can barely notice it. And the fact is, only such a small group will realise that it even exists. If you're just listening to an album, you love, I think this new mix is going to sound much better (as it can't be worse!). I'm looking forward to certain tracks especially, in fact all of them for me are going to be curious to listen to.
A new mix for this album, Queen II and Jazz have been wanted by some fans for years and now it happens for one of them, guess what, disappointment and moaning! Five years ago I would've said, it won't happen, and now it has, all I'm hearing is more negativity. I feel like it's a no win!
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Post by mattzarella on Sept 12, 2024 21:44:58 GMT
The drum-intro sounds like it was made with VST-instruments on GarageBand. The snare is what I specifically hate Yeah. It's a very normalized, noise gated swivel sound that you wouldn't get in the 70s. Feels like it clips abruptly to signify a sample or such. It was jarring to hear that |
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Lord Fickle
Global Moderator 
Posts: 26,062
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 12, 2024 21:49:47 GMT
I think it's a bit out of my price range £182 for the box set on Amazon at the moment , being on disability benefits and with the cost of living ,winter coming and fuel prices due to go up . I would really love to have it but times are a bit hard at the moment. Maybe there might be a smaller release without the vinyl as I have not even got a record player. Amazon are taking the pi$$, but with their 'dynamic pricing', it could well come down. It is currently cheaper on Burning Shed but you've got to add £8.99 postage onto that price. That said, they do pack and post things very securely. It's £149 in the QOL Store, plus a fiver postage. I'm still keeping an eye on www.rarewaves.com as they often have unbeatable prices, but at this moment it seems more expensive on there. There is also a 2CD knocking around, which features the remixed album and the outtakes disc, but not the live versions. |
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Post by deathtoming on Sept 12, 2024 21:51:26 GMT
Where did you hear that? In Japan the album was called 戦慄の王女 translated as ‘Princess of Fear’. I know I've seen it in print somewhere. And Mercury even called it that on stage between songs when they played there in 1975/76. If you recall seeing it in print, is it possible you're thinking of the Sheer Heart Attack album being also called "Queen III" in Japan?  |
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Post by Mr Mercury on Sept 12, 2024 21:51:29 GMT
Calling the album "Queen 1" instead of "Queen" just seems wrong to be me. They should have kept it's original tittle. That's technically what it was called in Japan back then, at least colloquially. I don't feel too strongly about it either way, myself. Yeah Im not bothered about the name change either. |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 12, 2024 21:53:16 GMT
How much was the "40 years of Queen" hardback book with reproduction memorabilia and a single CD of (half) the 1977 BBC interview? Pretty sure it was the whole thing in terms of spoken content, just minus the songs that were spun. |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 12, 2024 21:53:51 GMT
I know I've seen it in print somewhere. And Mercury even called it that on stage between songs when they played there in 1975/76. If you recall seeing it in print, is it possible you're thinking of the Sheer Heart Attack album being also called "Queen III" in Japan? Right, that could be it !! |
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Lord Fickle
Global Moderator
Posts: 26,062
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 12, 2024 21:56:14 GMT
So... a few honest words: Since the promise of the anthology we have all been waiting for something big and with each year the feeling of being given an empty promise has been growing. The 2011 was like being allowed a small, small glimpse into the archives with De Lane Lea Demos taken from Brian May's own acetate and that of course concerns only the treatment that the debut album got at that time. Did we see many lost opportunities with some of the choices for the second cd of the deluxe editions back then ? Yes, we did. QueenZone was not a forgiving place and GB had his ass handed to him more than once. Now, in 2024, after having seen and analysed all the Deluxe editions and Collector's editions we should be wiser and instantly recognise some of the strategy used by QPL. They are great at teasing and amazing at rehashing already-released material. This is an important matter because when something has been already released or has been out in the open for some time (like Hammy 75') then a company, the master of the intellectual property of said material has a chance to put its own stamp to it and do it with class and style. That was very important for Freddie and it's evident even in the attention to detail that Freddie had put into the design of the first few albums. People tend to forget what it was like when Freddie was around and the new album was heading our way. Now, back to QPL's strategy... Why did we get only one song from the Hammy 75' rehearsal and on a vinyl format ? Why did not they release any audio from the other 1975 Hammersmith shows when they decided to release it as their own standalone product if it is true that Mike Stone (please correct me here if I am mistaken) truly had been recording their early shows ?
When you look at the QI Box Set... it looks beautiful, the idea is here, the right thinking is here! : studio recordings, out-takes, tracks recorded during live gigs. The only missing thing is the video material (early shows / interviews / promotional video-clips and promo rushes). Then you read the track-listing and you recognize the old patterns : tracks that had already been released for a different QPL's project, scattering few tracks over one CD which should not take place if Brian is such a pro-environment person. The crucial matter here is that this is THE debut album. We're talking about four crazy creative and innovative guys but inexperienced in studio and having their first attempts at defining "their" sound and getting it right! They were learning, making mistakes, errors, retreading and laying down on tracks what they deemed at that time as best. It is supposed not to be perfect. Then why remix whole album so it is pitch-perfect and sounds very modern ? I choose not to believe that this product is meant for the auto-tune Tik-Tok generation, lacking the attention span to care about pitch correction or totally changed sound, atmosphere, dynamics and overall vibe of the original studio recording.
Pitch correction applied to Freddie's vocals makes them sound robotic and inhuman. Even if subtle, you can discern how everything in the newly remixed The Night Comes Down track flows perfectly in his voice, which ultimately sacrifices authenticity for something flawless, which is not at all being respectful of the dead artist who had put his heart and soul into his vocal takes. Again, this is the debut album, recorded when Freddie's voice was at its most youthful and immaculate... why screw it up ?
I am eager to hear My Fairy King's backing track or the Trident Backing Track In Development... but having heard the The Night Comes Down remix imagine melodyne applied to the My Fairy King : Freddie's falsetto, and all the track's glorious backing vocals, chorus, the last Freddie's line "I cannot hiiiiiiide"... Would have Freddie loved it ?
I get that Roger has been very vocal about hating the drum sound on that album and I understand that he was pushing for a new mix, but he's a big Hendrix fan and the drum sound isn't all that great on some of his early records, the same with early Who that he also loves. Would he want digital echo and the sound to be artificially changed on those? I highly doubt it, so why does he think it's acceptable to do this to music that means as much to other people as that does to him?
I do get all of that, but let's not forget, this box set isn't replacing the original version, so if you prefer the 2011 remaster, there's always the option to stick to that.  |
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NathanH
Politician
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Post by NathanH on Sept 12, 2024 22:01:18 GMT
That's technically what it was called in Japan back then, at least colloquially. I don't feel too strongly about it either way, myself. Yeah Im not bothered about the name change either. One of my music dislikes is eponymous albums. It really annoys me. Take Fleetwood Mac for example. Their first album way back in 1968 was called Fleetwood Mac. And their eleventh album in 1975 was ingeniously called Fleetwood Mac. Because of the confusion, fans and even themselves call it The White Album. But The White Album in my head makes me think of The Beatles album which is called, umm, The Beatles. Queen I seems odd at first but when you've got a list of albums which is then followed by Queen II, I think it works well. Like Brian says, it's a shame they didn't call it that back at the time. It definitely prevents the confusion! |
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pg
Queen Mab
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 1,618
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Post by pg on Sept 12, 2024 22:01:53 GMT
Just compared the new sleeve (liking the gold) with an original, and the image has had quite a bit of work done
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rub3945
Ploughman
Posts: 360
Likes: 721
Member is Online
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Post by rub3945 on Sept 12, 2024 22:03:58 GMT
Not big on this, sounds too sharp and implements hiss the way you did it. I threw it together in 2 mins with a lossy sample from Spotify so it's not meant to be perfect by any means! It's a tricky one I guess. The original mix is still my favourite overall. I do enjoy drier-sounding drums a lot of the time. The drums on the new mix sound very "90s" to me with that extra reverb and slightly bloated low end. Some people dig that, but not necessarily me. But hoping this little test might plant the seed for anyone looking to make their own mix from scratch. You're right, copying the EQ straight over won't be enough, but something can definitely be done! |
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Post by zephead2112 on Sept 12, 2024 22:04:57 GMT
I will be putting this and the rest of the mixes that come from this on the YouTube board, but I thought I should share this here as it's as relevant as it'll ever be. I'm also considering doing an alternative mix to restore the original 1973 snare drum sound. Would anybody be interested in that? |
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pg
Queen Mab
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 1,618
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Post by pg on Sept 12, 2024 22:08:27 GMT
One of my music dislikes is eponymous albums. It really annoys me. Take Fleetwood Mac for example. Their first album way back in 1968 was called Fleetwood Mac. And their eleventh album in 1975 was ingeniously called Fleetwood Mac. Who do you hate more, Peter Gabriel or Mott The Hoople? |
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Post by zephead2112 on Sept 12, 2024 22:28:47 GMT
I will be putting this and the rest of the mixes that come from this on the YouTube board, but I thought I should share this here as it's as relevant as it'll ever be. I'm also considering doing an alternative mix to restore the original 1973 snare drum sound. Would anybody be interested in that? This is very nice, thank you. And yes, I would be very interested. Putting aside all of the arguments about the new mix, it got me thinking about Freddie's musical influeunces when the band recorded this early Queen track. I'm thinking about Hendrix, The Beatles, The Who, Yes and a very young Zeppelin. However, it's completely unique and I believe that it captures Freddie's vision of what he wanted Queen to sound like from day one. Nobody sounded like this. It's something else. The acoustic guitar treatment is fabulous and it has that Eastern vibe to it. It's too short. Bravo, Mr Mercury! |
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Post by disco_mart on Sept 12, 2024 22:49:56 GMT
My 2 Cents worth:
Am happy that Mad The Swine has been put back in on all versions but why did they leave TMLWKY off the Miracle CD and only include it on the vinyl edition of the album?
Given how expensive and bloated with previously released/not needed shite like the BBC, Rainbow and Backing track stuff, why didn't they put Hangman and I'm a Man on the 2 disc bonus edition to save me buying a massive, expensive dust magnet which I'll only get later at a much more reasonable price via eBay, Amazon etc?
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Post by lefthandedguitarist on Sept 12, 2024 22:59:10 GMT
I think it's a bit out of my price range £182 for the box set on Amazon at the moment , being on disability benefits and with the cost of living ,winter coming and fuel prices due to go up . I would really love to have it but times are a bit hard at the moment. Maybe there might be a smaller release without the vinyl as I have not even got a record player. The digital release for the whole set is only £21.99 on Amazon Music right now. |
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Post by mattzarella on Sept 13, 2024 0:46:56 GMT
Funny. Just days ago JUDAS PRIEST had announced a remix edition of their DEBUT album ROCKA ROLLA which essentially is doing this. Modernizing the original sound performances.
Of course, that album isn't that great... SAD WINGS OF DESTINY was their original triumph
Wonder if Alice Cooper ever considered doing that with their early Zappa stuff.
Everybody else has done it.
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Nick
Satyr
Posts: 57
Likes: 111
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Post by Nick on Sept 13, 2024 7:56:52 GMT
When you look at the QI Box Set... it looks beautiful, the idea is here, the right thinking is here! : studio recordings, out-takes, tracks recorded during live gigs. The only missing thing is the video material (early shows / interviews / promotional video-clips and promo rushes). Then you read the track-listing and you recognize the old patterns : tracks that had already been released for a different QPL's project, scattering few tracks over one CD which should not take place if Brian is such a pro-environment person. Well said. You missed the worst of QPL’s patterns: the instrumental disc, which is such a low quality value add it’s unreal. They could - should ? - add a surround mix of the album but I suspect they know that this wouldn’t move the needle when it comes to sales that much, so the cheap option wins. Never change, QPL… |
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dane
Satyr
Posts: 86
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Post by dane on Sept 13, 2024 8:00:19 GMT
I'm guessing TNCD is the 1st to be released because this was the oldest recorded song on the album? This was a mix from the De Lane Lea demo if I remember correctly Either I missed something or the press release decided not to specify which version of the single was taken by Trident or De Lane lea So does anyone have an idea about why they did not include the Trident version of the song on the boxset? Maybe it was never recorded? Otherwise it truely is a missed opportunity. |
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JackG
Ostler
Posts: 237
Likes: 257
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Post by JackG on Sept 13, 2024 8:02:59 GMT
When you look at the QI Box Set... it looks beautiful, the idea is here, the right thinking is here! : studio recordings, out-takes, tracks recorded during live gigs. The only missing thing is the video material (early shows / interviews / promotional video-clips and promo rushes). Then you read the track-listing and you recognize the old patterns : tracks that had already been released for a different QPL's project, scattering few tracks over one CD which should not take place if Brian is such a pro-environment person. Well said. You missed the worst of QPL’s patterns: the instrumental disc, which is such a low quality value add it’s unreal. They could - should ? - add a surround mix of the album but I suspect they know that this wouldn’t move the needle when it comes to sales that much, so the cheap option wins. Never change, QPL… Queen I will get an Atmos Mix, just only digitally |
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manymilesaway
Politician
Cookin' up remasters
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Post by manymilesaway on Sept 13, 2024 8:12:56 GMT
Either I missed something or the press release decided not to specify which version of the single was taken by Trident or De Lane lea So does anyone have an idea about why they did not include the Trident version of the song on the boxset? Maybe it was never recorded? Otherwise it truely is a missed opportunity. I've never even heard of a Trident recording of TNCD |
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cmi
Politician
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Post by cmi on Sept 13, 2024 8:30:46 GMT
Quote from Press-Release:
But the band insisted on using a recording from De Lane Lea Studios rather than attempt a new version at Trident. They smuggled in their demo multi-track tape in a newly labelled ‘Trident’ box in order to mix the song for the album.
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Yes, I'll buy this box because it has a lot of material that you couldn't even dream of over 30 years ago 
