merplot
Dragonfly Trumpeter
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Post by merplot on Sept 25, 2024 16:28:45 GMT
I agree about the obvious decision when one is faced with the choice between hearing Freddie's vocals and not hearing them at all. On the other hand, do you remember how much doctored is the line "waiting to hear the SOUND" on the live version of The Fairy Feller's Master Stroke ? All that boasting about releasing unheard gem and then you get to hear a line which can be barely recognized as Freddie's voice. These guys at QPL just have to understand where is the line that should not be crossed... yes, but again: if it hadn't been "doctored" at all, then we'd have never heard it at all. context is everything. you can't have one without the other - it's not our decision. folk need to make up their minds: either you want to hear stuff (with some tweaks) - or you want to hear NOTHING - other than Greatest Hits reissues. No one "needs" to do anything-- what's being released is what's being released, and people can react to it as they see fit, which is what this board is for and what I've seen happen here so far. |
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BrƎИsꓘi
Administrator 
They called it paradise, I don't know why...You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 25, 2024 16:43:12 GMT
yes, but again: if it hadn't been "doctored" at all, then we'd have never heard it at all. context is everything. you can't have one without the other - it's not our decision. folk need to make up their minds: either you want to hear stuff (with some tweaks) - or you want to hear NOTHING - other than Greatest Hits reissues. No one "needs" to do anything-- what's being released is what's being released, and people can react to it as they see fit, which is what this board is for and what I've seen happen here so far. of course they can, but you've completely missed my point. if an untweaked thing doesn't exist in "our world" then moaning about its not being released is pointless. all this "i would rather hear it undoctored" stuff is irrelevant. by all means criticise the " tweaks", but not in some misguided ideal that this'll somehow result in the untweaked versions being released. we're dealing with perfectionists. ain't going to happen folks...until they're dead and gone - and maybe NOT even then. this is one of the reasons why the 1970 gig didn't get released. we're now hearing snippets of it that are "of a standard" that they are happy for us to hear. |
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lyricweaver
Tatterdemalion
I'll make the speed of light out of this place.
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Post by lyricweaver on Sept 25, 2024 16:56:10 GMT
Hello all, finally registered here and literally read through this entire thread due to overwhelming curiosity of opinions about these latest release announcements.
Not surprising to see initial intrigue and excitement shift to criticism and concerns! We're all so quick to jump on the details we don't like. Even I did this. I was so stoked to see the initial announcement; especially given the overall sound of their debut. As soon as I heard the (to me, obvious) pitch correction on Freddie, I was a bit disenchanted. How dare they! How could they? My mind reeled.
But I took a moment (or two). I listened to TNCD on better headphones, and I actually liked what they did to isolate some of the instrument frequencies to make things stand out. Still not sure about the overall drum sound (I loved the De Lane Lea drums and this has always been one of my favorite songs on the album because of it). But I'm warming up to the newness. I don't think I'll ever be a fan of the pitch correction, but it is, sadly, a very standard EQ plugin in just about every song these days. I hate that classic artists and songs from decades prior are being put through it, but, here we are.
I've been back on forth on whether or not I'll indulge in the entire Collection set, but I really want to hear the alternate takes, demos and I want that photo book. Even if most (all?) of the material gets put through some sort of pitch correction, I'll probably bite if only to have all of it. I'd rather have it in any form than not have it at all.
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katby
Satyr
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Post by katby on Sept 25, 2024 17:09:34 GMT
This positive outlook explains why you love Hot Space so much. there's a chasm of difference between hearing priceless rare recordings, and HS. if you're happy with HS over these new discoveries, then all power to you. i wish i could be satisfied with the HS level of quality. I can't. Because my formative nusic years were spent listening to those first 7 LPs during the halcyon times that were 4 years prior to the release of Hot Space. imagine if you had someone over to install a new kitchen and bathroom in your house while you're away and when you return they tell you "we've tried a few new things" 1. Oven is now in the bath 2. toilet is right next to the food prep area 3. shower is outside on the front porch 4. all the cupboards are upside down i bet you'd be delighted with that too. me? no. that ^ to my ears) is HS in a nutshell  My comment was intended to be humorous (see my reply to pg if you haven't already). I'm not a big fan of Hot Space, though I don't hate it as much as you. But following your example, I would say this box set is more like paying a decorator to paint your walls magnolia and instead they painted them white. It could be worse and if they were doing it for free, I might just be grateful. However, since they're expecting me to pay £150 for the privilege - I'm quite happy to express my preference for future reference. |
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BrƎИsꓘi
Administrator
They called it paradise, I don't know why...You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 25, 2024 17:34:39 GMT
there's a chasm of difference between hearing priceless rare recordings, and HS. if you're happy with HS over these new discoveries, then all power to you. i wish i could be satisfied with the HS level of quality. I can't. Because my formative nusic years were spent listening to those first 7 LPs during the halcyon times that were 4 years prior to the release of Hot Space. imagine if you had someone over to install a new kitchen and bathroom in your house while you're away and when you return they tell you "we've tried a few new things" 1. Oven is now in the bath 2. toilet is right next to the food prep area 3. shower is outside on the front porch 4. all the cupboards are upside down i bet you'd be delighted with that too. me? no. that ^ to my ears) is HS in a nutshell My comment was intended to be humorous (see my reply to pg if you haven't already). I'm not a big fan of Hot Space, though I don't hate it as much as you. But following your example, I would say this box set is more like paying a decorator to paint your walls magnolia and instead they painted them white. It could be worse and if they were doing it for free, I might just be grateful. However, since they're expecting me to pay £150 for the privilege - I'm quite happy to express my preference for future reference. i noted your humour in your original comments - hence the in my reply however "magnolia" and "white" is not the same chasm as having an oven in the bath |
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baronlutenvank
Ploughman
The Username Formerly Known as Killer_queenIII
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Post by baronlutenvank on Sept 25, 2024 17:46:28 GMT
Shoot, if anyone's got Golden Salmon's Unusual Anthology, keep in mind there's Keep Yourself Alive (Trident Studios early version) and a Trident demo of Jesus that we can compare with against the sessions disc when it comes out. Something I just realized while browsing through my files, and found out I still got The Unusual Anthology lurking in my files.
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NathanH
Politician
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Post by NathanH on Sept 25, 2024 19:07:32 GMT
re: pitch correction/autotune etc: a little perspective folks: 1] we're hearing stuff we may never have heard. at all. ever. let's embrace it. 2] if you don't like the corrections on the new mixes, then go and buy an earlier mix. simple. sure, there's plenty of extremely valid QPL things we can moan about, quality of a mix/sound etc, but to be able to hear old Freddie tunes (with vocal tweaks hear and there) versus NOT hearing them at all is a no-brainer folks. moaning like f*ck about stuff is pointless in this respect. you choice is hear it as issued in 2024, or don't. Thanks for being blunt. Despite the criticism this release will bring so much enjoyment for thousands and thousands of Queen fans. It's seems a small minority who are criticising it, but it feels like they are highly influential. I don't want these archive releases to stop if people keep it up because we'll be left with reissues and new merch which doesn't go down well either. |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 25, 2024 19:28:25 GMT
Shoot, if anyone's got Golden Salmon's Unusual Anthology, keep in mind there's Keep Yourself Alive (Trident Studios early version) and a Trident demo of Jesus that we can compare with against the sessions disc when it comes out. If you're talking about the acetate, then it's the De Lane Lea version with no differences at all, apart from being in worse sound quality. I'm curious - how did this end up having a Trident label when the demo was cut before they signed with Trident ? |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 25, 2024 19:42:34 GMT
re: pitch correction/autotune etc: a little perspective folks: 1] we're hearing stuff we may never have heard. at all. ever. let's embrace it. 2] if you don't like the corrections on the new mixes, then go and buy an earlier mix. simple. sure, there's plenty of extremely valid QPL things we can moan about, quality of a mix/sound etc, but to be able to hear old Freddie tunes (with vocal tweaks hear and there) versus NOT hearing them at all is a no-brainer folks. moaning like f*ck about stuff is pointless in this respect. you choice is hear it as issued in 2024, or don't. Thanks for being blunt. Despite the criticism this release will bring so much enjoyment for thousands and thousands of Queen fans. It's seems a small minority who are criticising it, but it feels like they are highly influential. I don't want these archive releases to stop if people keep it up because we'll be left with reissues and new merch which doesn't go down well either. If it's deemed profitable, they'll keep doing it, full stop. I'm sure the criticism ultimately won't move the needle much or at all. And if it does, I wager it'll be in the direction of using less autotune or none at all, because it may click that they're losing some sales because of it. To be determined, I guess ! |
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Post by snakecharmer on Sept 25, 2024 20:27:16 GMT
Reading all this overdramatic melodrama "I Don't Know whether To Laugh Or Cry." Queen have tried something new , would you have preferred , " The Very Very All Time Greatest Hits ?"
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shamar
Tatterdemalion
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Post by shamar on Sept 25, 2024 21:26:58 GMT
I like the instrumentals but... not the vocal. And I realy hate "pitch corrected" versions of "Goin back" and "ICHM" Pith correction on stereo master 24 years ago... LOL So what it was 24 years ago? Whatever they did it sounds like that. You can simple compare it to "in Nuce" versions or... ending of "Mother Love". |
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vh
Ploughman
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Post by vh on Sept 25, 2024 21:59:18 GMT
Reading all this overdramatic melodrama "I Don't Know whether To Laugh Or Cry." Queen have tried something new , would you have preferred , " The Very Very All Time Greatest Hits ?" The boxset is the best studio product they’ve produced in terms of content. This album and probably Jazz are the two that on the surface would benefit the most from a well executed remix. However when auto tune is applied to a vocal that doesn’t need it, then they have strayed off the line. To my mind The Night Comes Down (remix) sounds brilliant, but that auto tuned vocal sounds out of place. Remember both Brian and Roger in the past have praised Freddie vocal abilities and how much he put into every line. So why take that brilliance and screw round with. You wouldn’t take a paint brush and change a shade of colour on Da Vinci’s Mona Lisa or change any other work of art, so why a vocal that was sung by someone held in such high regard, especially when the end result isn’t as pleasing to listen to as the untreated vocal! |
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jw224
Tatterdemalion
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Post by jw224 on Sept 25, 2024 22:03:27 GMT
I'm excited to hear the other remixes of the album tracks. I like how The Night Comes Down sounds, I can definitely notice the vocal has been adjusted at points but it doesn't stand out as robotic to me, just sounds slightly different. I understand the complaints and I'm not gonna tell anybody they are wrong for feeling how they do about it. Definitely unnecessary but not something that stops me enjoying the song, I like how they made it sound. The drums will take some getting used to though haha (not saying I hate how they sound, just that they are very different). The snippets from the unboxing video sound pretty great as well, tbh.
That AI video though, horrid.
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Lord Fickle
Global Moderator
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 25, 2024 22:27:08 GMT
The boxset is the best studio product they’ve produced in terms of content. This album and probably Jazz are the two that on the surface would benefit the most from a well executed remix. However when auto tune is applied to a vocal that doesn’t need it, then they have strayed off the line.To my mind The Night Comes Down (remix) sounds brilliant, but that auto tuned vocal sounds out of place. Remember both Brian and Roger in the past have praised Freddie vocal abilities and how much he put into every line. So why take that brilliance and screw round with. You wouldn’t take a paint brush and change a shade of colour on Da Vinci’s Mona Lisa or change any other work of art, so why a vocal that was sung by someone held in such high regard, especially when the end result isn’t as pleasing to listen to as the untreated vocal! Somebody must have thought something needed doing, otherwise, by definition, why would autotune have adjusted a perfect vocal? |
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donovan
Dragonfly Trumpeter
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Post by donovan on Sept 25, 2024 22:52:46 GMT
Somebody must have thought something needed doing, otherwise, by definition, why would autotune have adjusted a perfect vocal? Agreed. And we can say "Freddie would never have settled for a vocal take he didn't like", but in 1973 at three in the morning on borrowed time and not yet buoyed by the confidence of success, I can imagine there were times when the return on investment would be low. To launch myself on a hazard of speculation... Is it possible that an off-pitch vocal delivery might stand out and sound worse in an Atmos mix? What was once acceptable in the muddy original release might suddenly stick out like a sore thumb. |
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merplot
Dragonfly Trumpeter
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Post by merplot on Sept 26, 2024 1:10:15 GMT
No one "needs" to do anything-- what's being released is what's being released, and people can react to it as they see fit, which is what this board is for and what I've seen happen here so far. if an untweaked thing doesn't exist in "our world" then moaning about its not being released is pointless. I completely disagree with that statement. But I suppose we're wading into philosophical territory here which is not what this space is for. In any event, I am very happy with the sound of the new instrument mixes so far, so I will be looking forward to somebody putting an old, more authentic vocal track over that. =) |
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lyricweaver
Tatterdemalion
I'll make the speed of light out of this place.
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Post by lyricweaver on Sept 26, 2024 3:14:57 GMT
Somebody must have thought something needed doing, otherwise, by definition, why would autotune have adjusted a perfect vocal? Agreed. And we can say "Freddie would never have settled for a vocal take he didn't like", but in 1973 at three in the morning on borrowed time and not yet buoyed by the confidence of success, I can imagine there were times when the return on investment would be low. To launch myself on a hazard of speculation... Is it possible that an off-pitch vocal delivery might stand out and sound worse in an Atmos mix? What was once acceptable in the muddy original release might suddenly stick out like a sore thumb. For what it's worth, an intriguing take on the vocals and how/why it may have turned out like it did originally; plus a different approach to addressing the pitch. |
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Post by pennyroyalty on Sept 26, 2024 6:25:38 GMT
re: pitch correction/autotune etc: a little perspective folks: 1] we're hearing stuff we may never have heard. at all. ever. let's embrace it. 2] if you don't like the corrections on the new mixes, then go and buy an earlier mix. simple. sure, there's plenty of extremely valid QPL things we can moan about, quality of a mix/sound etc, but to be able to hear old Freddie tunes (with vocal tweaks hear and there) versus NOT hearing them at all is a no-brainer folks. moaning like f*ck about stuff is pointless in this respect. you choice is hear it as issued in 2024, or don't. Thanks for being blunt. Despite the criticism this release will bring so much enjoyment for thousands and thousands of Queen fans. It's seems a small minority who are criticising it, but it feels like they are highly influential. I don't want these archive releases to stop if people keep it up because we'll be left with reissues and new merch which doesn't go down well either. Oh, I guarantee that the criticism will do f*ck all as always. Neither will it make them stop releasing stuff nor will it make them release stuff more to the critics' satisfaction. What makes you think they will keep releasing stuf in the first place? We're essentially at their mercy, which is completely fair because it's their legacy and they can do whatever they please with it, including pitch correcting the hell out of it. But the idea that there's no room for criticism just because it's gonna be ignored by those criticised is utterly ridiculous. |
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leighburne
Dragonfly Trumpeter
Posts: 178
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Post by leighburne on Sept 26, 2024 6:50:58 GMT
I think some people also need to accept the percentage of people winging about autotune are gonna make up a tiny fraction of the people who will potentially buy this.
It'll sell regardless. So why would the band or the label care?
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Sept 26, 2024 8:59:23 GMT
Pith correction on stereo master 24 years ago... LOL So what it was 24 years ago? Whatever they did it sounds like that. You can simple compare it to "in Nuce" versions or... ending of "Mother Love". That would be the In Nuce versions running at the wrong speed, and the snippet at the end of Mother Love having been slowed down considerably so that the resultant pitch shift made it match the desired key. Remember that the original single was recorded so that an engineer could try his hand at a Phil Spector-like production - that included speeding up the recordings to raise the pitch and intensity as an effect (gimmick, if you will). That's what you hear on the box, and on the original single. It's a pitch shifting effect, but as different from autotune as tuning an engine is from replacing it with a bigger one. And, crucially: the shifted pitch is on the original master tape. |
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Post by pennyroyalty on Sept 26, 2024 9:17:25 GMT
I think some people also need to accept the percentage of people winging about autotune are gonna make up a tiny fraction of the people who will potentially buy this. It'll sell regardless. So why would the band or the label care? True! Even those who are complaining are gonna buy it.  Chill out people! It's a discussion forum, so we don't have to agree on everything. |
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antonio
Ostler
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Post by antonio on Sept 26, 2024 10:16:14 GMT
The point is: We all can understand to fix, for example, things like Death On Two Legs at Earls Court or Fat Bottomed Girls at Milton Keynes Bowl...But here? I mean, this track has been listened like that the last 50 years. People could have noticed this out of tune bit...But I´m sure noone cared...
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Lord Fickle
Global Moderator
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 26, 2024 10:28:51 GMT
The point is: We all can understand to fix, for example, things like Death On Two Legs at Earls Court or Fat Bottomed Girls at Milton Keynes Bowl...But here? I mean, this track has been listened like that the last 50 years. People could have noticed this out of tune bit...But I´m sure noone cared... Clearly the professionals in the studio doing the remixing cared... |
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speedy
Tatterdemalion
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Post by speedy on Sept 26, 2024 14:09:12 GMT
Here's a guy showing the extent of pitch correction on the The Night Comes Down and speculating about why original take was a bit off, and proposing how fixing it could have been approached differently.
I watch all these video this guy does and he it mostly spot on. I like the idea he dragged the instruments down to match Freddies vocals but I think this then made the sound a bit ploddy so maybe should then have brought the whole thing back up. Some people cant hear a flat or sharp note (unless really bad) and some people cant hear autotune so you will always get people on different sides. If I can paint this picture. Imagine seeing Harry Kane score a wonder goal live. Ball comes off his foot with a slight bend and hits top left of the goal. Then you watch it on match of the day and someone has thought that the ball has not left Harry's foot dead straight and for it to be a wonder goal it has to hit dead centre of the net so has moved the ball via CGI. This is what its like with what they have done to Freddie's voice so now the note that left Freddies mouth is no longer the note we hear and how the note blends in the air and hits the target is now forced into a stright line with a target no human voice hits - so instead of walking up stairs it takes the lift. Would Brian May be happy if all his notes played were replaced with keyboard sound because the bends he does dont hit a line of notes the computer likes. I like the new mix and welcome any new stuff but I just want to hear Freddie's voice and the emotion and that could have been but like the video time is money and maybe the people in control will never care like we do and the years of heart and memories.
If you like the new stuff buy it so more stuff will come and if you dont buy the older stuff or wait for the talent pleople I see make their versions to get the best of the worlds. It keeps queen in peoples ears and I am near 50 but my 23 and 11 year old's are hungry for new things of Queen as well so maybe the 'new' sound is also aimed at people who only hear the top 40 of today and non autotuned sounds weird to them. Anyway roll on getting new music and keep Queen rolling on.
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pg
Queen Mab
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Post by pg on Sept 26, 2024 14:15:20 GMT
Chill out people! It's a discussion forum, so we don't have to agree on everything. So because it's a discussion forum, we SHOULDN'T argue, even though disagreeing is OK? |
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speedy
Tatterdemalion
Posts: 14
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Post by speedy on Sept 26, 2024 14:28:47 GMT
The point is: We all can understand to fix, for example, things like Death On Two Legs at Earls Court or Fat Bottomed Girls at Milton Keynes Bowl...But here? I mean, this track has been listened like that the last 50 years. People could have noticed this out of tune bit...But I´m sure noone cared... Clearly the professionals in the studio doing the remixing cared... The professionals are perhaps looking at lines on a graph on the computer screen rather than using their ears. It would be interesting to hear the remix if Brian and Roger had done it - okay there would be more guitar :-) but I bet they would not be looking at a vocal line but hearing it and also feeling it and how it sits with the other sounds. We must all be braced for what may come further down the line when Brian and Roger etc have even less control and we get offical things coming from a AI freddie of new songs and duets with Taylor swift - sort of joking but at the least a lost queen song may have a missing line put in by a AI version so those bonus tracks on the last box set would be complete.
If I can move the focus to the new box set and not what they have done to freddie's voice. Do we think there will be any other singles from this new box set and as they made a thing to call it Queen 1 do we think there is already Queen 2 ready to go? I look forward to reading anyones thoughts.
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Dimitris
Politician
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Post by Dimitris on Sept 26, 2024 15:18:37 GMT
For some reasons autotune few sevonds on TNCD has happened, Brian's and Roger's quality control missed it, maybe they don't hear well or they totally trust their sound engineers.
Whatever has happened with autotune and other sound engineering stuff.
This album along with Jazz and Queen II deserves the remix.
Queen LP due to its bad sound, Most of the times, I prefer to listen its songs ,either from live bootlegs, BBC sessions and official releases.
Why they didn't try to remixed it back in 1990-91 , when they found Mad the Swine multitracks?
They mixed the song back then, the result was very good.
This song is for me the one to compare when the album is coming out. All the others never sounded right.
And... Do we know if they did any studio wise unacceptable thing in 1990-91?
Did they do any overdubs?
My comparison is Mad The Swine.
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Post by pennyroyalty on Sept 26, 2024 16:14:52 GMT
Chill out people! It's a discussion forum, so we don't have to agree on everything. So because it's a discussion forum, we SHOULDN'T argue, even though disagreeing is OK? It would be silly of me if I'd said so, wouldn't? By "chill out" I didn't mean "stop the discussion". You can argue all you want for all I care. I just got the impression that in the heat of the argument some people here suggest that the critics should quit complaining and be unconditionally grateful for everything QPL releases. To me this is unnecessary emotional overreaction. Unless I misread some of the comments above, in which case I apologise. If you think we're on the same page now, I'll be happy to move on. |
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Lord Fickle
Global Moderator
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 26, 2024 16:30:41 GMT
Do we think there will be any other singles from this new box set and as they made a thing to call it Queen 1 do we think there is already Queen 2 ready to go? I look forward to reading anyones thoughts. Personally, I think a Queen II box with a similar design would look great next to Queen I, and I'm hopeful that they had the pairing in mind when renaming the Queen album 'Queen I'. But anything related to a Queen II box is nothing more than speculation at the moment, so belongs in one of the 'Rumour Mill' threads - presumably the 2025 one. 🙂 |
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Post by snakecharmer on Sept 26, 2024 20:17:18 GMT
I suppose the prospect of having a a "Queen 2" box set will possibly come down to the numbers & if "Queen 1 " box set made money or broke even . Also Queen Box sets don't normally follow any particular date or anniversary , if they did we would have had "Sheer Heart Attack" released 11th November 1974 50th anniversary this year . So we are just as likely to get a "Hot Space " box set next time around , that would need more remixing and pitch controlling than is humanly possible .
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Chill out people! It's a discussion forum, so we don't have to agree on everything.
