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Post by queenfan23 on Sept 26, 2024 0:29:36 GMT
Why wasn't Mother Love credited as a "Queen" song ?
I thought all songs written after 1989 were supposed to be credited to Queen.
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Post by coolcat27 on Sept 26, 2024 11:36:57 GMT
That is a great question and I've wondered that myself. My guess is that Freddie and Brian were the only ones who contributed to its origin? Though that does fly in the face of the "all songs written by Queen" mantra that began with The Miracle. Because surely Roger and John ended up contributing to the track.
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Post by Maxi Dries on Sept 26, 2024 13:34:53 GMT
I think is some ego thing.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 26, 2024 17:38:02 GMT
The co-writing agreement they made circa 1988 was one for band unity, to end the arguments over songwriting royalties after Freddie's diagnosis. Clearly this didn't matter much anymore after he died and the band was fracturing, taking a solid couple years to finish the final album without him.
Let's also note that You Don't Fool Me is credited to Mercury/Taylor, and A Winter's Tale is credited to Mercury.
Some nerve and ego he had, especially for a dead guy.
SMH.
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Post by lefthandedguitarist on Sept 26, 2024 18:10:45 GMT
Let's also note that You Don't Fool Me is credited to Mercury/Taylor, and A Winter's Tale is credited to Mercury. They're both credited to "Queen". Mother Love is the only "new" song on the album that doesn't follow the system (and the other songs are solo tracks, so credited to their original writers).
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 26, 2024 18:19:52 GMT
Let's also note that You Don't Fool Me is credited to Mercury/Taylor, and A Winter's Tale is credited to Mercury. They're both credited to "Queen". Mother Love is the only "new" song on the album that doesn't follow the system (and the other songs are solo tracks, so credited to their original writers). Wikipedia lied to me. For shame. Maybe Brian feels like Mother Love was created differently from the other two pieces then ? He's told the story about how it was just the two of them at the studio.
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Sept 26, 2024 19:17:04 GMT
I suspect it's because it meant Brian and Roger got similar amount of writers royalties from the album.
Brian had to share both his with other writers, two co-credits for one full credit.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 26, 2024 19:23:36 GMT
I suspect it's because it meant Brian and Roger got similar amount of writers royalties from the album. Brian had to share both his with other writers, two co-credits for one full credit. That's a solid theory. If true, it sounds like it would've settled any potential discontent with Roger, but perhaps not with John. Who knows if this has anything to do with why John left the band a couple years later. Onto the speculation train we go once again, but we'll never know.
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Sept 26, 2024 19:31:03 GMT
I suspect it's because it meant Brian and Roger got similar amount of writers royalties from the album. Brian had to share both his with other writers, two co-credits for one full credit. That's a solid theory. If true, it sounds like it would've settled any potential discontent with Roger, but perhaps not with John. Who knows if this has anything to do with why John left the band a couple years later. Onto the speculation train we go once again, but we'll never know. Hopefully we will never know, one thing I will say is they've always kept this side of things away from the fans, no comments or bringing the drama to the front. Totally professional and Brian in particular seems to make sure all 4 are represented in some way in official products (Like the monopoly using 1 song from each of them in place of train stations, official calanders have 3 photos of each of them and so on.) If there was tension, it may have been a quick and easy solution at the time.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Sept 28, 2024 22:29:51 GMT
I suspect it's because it meant Brian and Roger got similar amount of writers royalties from the album. Brian had to share both his with other writers, two co-credits for one full credit. I figured it would be something to do with royalties but I hadn't worked it out that Roger is actually credited slightly more than Brian any way you look at it (just more equal with ML). That's a good point, and I guess it must be why. As Lost Opportunity, You Don't Fool Me and A Winter's Tale and all of those songs are credited to Queen instead of Brian, Freddie/Roger and Freddie respectively. The way I've always assumed song contributions on Made In Heaven is (up for discussion): it's A Beautiful Day - Freddie/John Made In Heaven - Freddie (Roger's rework??) Let Me Live - Freddie's original idea? (Roger polished) Mother Love - mostly Brian but some Freddie My Life Has Been Saved - John I Was Born To Love You - Freddie (Brian rework) Heaven For Everyone - Roger Too Much Love Will Kill You - Brian You Don't Fool Me - Freddie/Roger (David Richards restructure) A Winter's Tale - Freddie (all four contributed) Untitled - David (some Brian/Roger contributions) I have no idea who was the main one behind Made In Heaven's reworking, but I feel I heard or read it was Roger. Also, I find it interesting that Brian's vocals are clearly heard in the quiet bit before the guitar solo and not Roger. Maybe Brian contributed more than seems obvious? But the thing just doing that list is how much Roger contributed to the songs. Alright it sounds like Brian had a lot of input in the final output but it makes you wonder if a lot of these songs were already chosen by Roger and John before Brian got involved?
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creepy
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Post by creepy on Sept 28, 2024 23:27:12 GMT
I suspect it's because it meant Brian and Roger got similar amount of writers royalties from the album. Brian had to share both his with other writers, two co-credits for one full credit. That's a solid theory. If true, it sounds like it would've settled any potential discontent with Roger, but perhaps not with John. Who knows if this has anything to do with why John left the band a couple years later. Onto the speculation train we go once again, but we'll never know. John said at the time that there was no way to continue without Freddie and that's what he did. He kept his word. In my opinion, the reason John left Queen was Freddie's death, not any other reason. Regarding the album "Made in heaven", most of the recording was done once Freddie passed away. I think it's possible that John wasn't as comfortable recording the album as he was on the previous 14 albums, and that's because Freddie wasn't there anymore. That album was not recorded with the entire band.
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Párys
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Post by Párys on Sept 29, 2024 8:41:09 GMT
That's a solid theory. If true, it sounds like it would've settled any potential discontent with Roger, but perhaps not with John. Who knows if this has anything to do with why John left the band a couple years later. Onto the speculation train we go once again, but we'll never know. John said at the time that there was no way to continue without Freddie and that's what he did. He kept his word. In my opinion, the reason John left Queen was Freddie's death, not any other reason. Regarding the album "Made in heaven", most of the recording was done once Freddie passed away. I think it's possible that John wasn't as comfortable recording the album as he was on the previous 14 albums, and that's because Freddie wasn't there anymore. That album was not recorded with the entire band. John takes Freddie's death very hard. In those last video clips it was clear that Freddie's illness was bothering him. It's insanely heartbreaking :-(
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creepy
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Post by creepy on Sept 29, 2024 9:48:02 GMT
John said at the time that there was no way to continue without Freddie and that's what he did. He kept his word. In my opinion, the reason John left Queen was Freddie's death, not any other reason. Regarding the album "Made in heaven", most of the recording was done once Freddie passed away. I think it's possible that John wasn't as comfortable recording the album as he was on the previous 14 albums, and that's because Freddie wasn't there anymore. That album was not recorded with the entire band. John takes Freddie's death very hard. In those last video clips it was clear that Freddie's illness was bothering him. It's insanely heartbreaking :-( Honestly, I don't see anything out of the ordinary in the latest Queen music videos, neither in John's behavior nor in the rest of his colleagues. In fact, what can be seen is that there is a good atmosphere in the band. If it weren't for Freddie's health, what I see in the Innuendo music videos is that the band is having a good time.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 29, 2024 10:27:59 GMT
John takes Freddie's death very hard. In those last video clips it was clear that Freddie's illness was bothering him. It's insanely heartbreaking :-( hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? there's no "Poker Tells" in those videos at all. IGSM is a is filmed very much with the Noël Cowardesque lyrics in mind. TATDOOL is a song about reflection. in both vids, all four band members have managed to capture the essence and mood of the songs perfectly with smiles and straight faces where appropriate. I think they all did an exceptionally good job.
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Párys
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Post by Párys on Sept 29, 2024 15:16:51 GMT
John takes Freddie's death very hard. In those last video clips it was clear that Freddie's illness was bothering him. It's insanely heartbreaking :-( hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? there's no "Poker Tells" in those videos at all. IGSM is a is filmed very much with the Noël Cowardesque lyrics in mind. TATDOOL is a song about reflection. in both vids, all four band members have managed to capture the essence and mood of the songs perfectly with smiles and straight faces where appropriate. I think they all did an exceptionally good job. They definitely did an excellent job. Still, everything happens naturally. You don't know it in your face or behavior, but the eyes never lie
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 29, 2024 16:33:25 GMT
They definitely did an excellent job. Still, everything happens naturally. You don't know it in your face or behavior, but the eyes never lie sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. you're obviously completely unaware of what actors do for a living. in movies, TV programmes and music videos those appearing on camera are [ahem] acting. every expression, look or gesture will have been scripted by the person behind the camera - the Director.
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Sept 29, 2024 16:57:28 GMT
I suspect it's because it meant Brian and Roger got similar amount of writers royalties from the album. Brian had to share both his with other writers, two co-credits for one full credit. I figured it would be something to do with royalties but I hadn't worked it out that Roger is actually credited slightly more than Brian any way you look at it (just more equal with ML). That's a good point, and I guess it must be why. As Lost Opportunity, You Don't Fool Me and A Winter's Tale and all of those songs are credited to Queen instead of Brian, Freddie/Roger and Freddie respectively. makes you wonder if a lot of these songs were already chosen by Roger and John before Brian got involved? I've often wondered what it sounded like before Brian got involved, because Rogers' "sound" is pretty recognisable and Brians' trademarks are over the whole finished album. I also find it interesting that unlike the two Freddie tracks and My Life Has Been Saved, Heaven for Everyone has vocals that are reworked in the second half of the song, more Freddie adlibs. Someone sat down and actually thought about how to make It more "Queen" sounding. And then there is "Mother Love", how would Roger and John have finished it?
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august
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Post by august on Sept 29, 2024 17:16:46 GMT
As mentioned, it was propably a royalty thing. Roger getting full royalties from HFE while Brien only got 1/3 from TMLWKY. The other songs are either credited to Queen or Freddie. Having said that, Mother Love is without a doubt a very special song for Brian. It was the last time Freddie and Brian were in the studio together making new music. Brian has described on many interviews those last sessions when Freddie's is very ill and asks to give him anything to sing, and Brian writes a line on a piece of paper and Freddie sings it... 'til he can't anymore (you know the story). So, I also think Brian wanted the world to know that it was their baby, the last musical collaboration between them. A very special song, indeed.
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Post by Maxi Dries on Sept 30, 2024 14:52:12 GMT
As mentioned, it was propably a royalty thing. Roger getting full royalties from HFE while Brien only got 1/3 from TMLWKY. The other songs are either credited to Queen or Freddie. Having said that, Mother Love is without a doubt a very special song for Brian. It was the last time Freddie and Brian were in the studio together making new music. Brian has described on many interviews those last sessions when Freddie's is very ill and asks to give him anything to sing, and Brian writes a line on a piece of paper and Freddie sings it... 'til he can't anymore (you know the story). So, I also think Brian wanted the world to know that it was their baby, the last musical collaboration between them. A very special song, indeed. A very strong point, I agree. Oddly enough, it wasn't released as a single. The MIH singles were credited to Queen / Roger (HFE) / Brian+Friends (TMLWKY).
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Sept 30, 2024 15:32:08 GMT
As mentioned, it was propably a royalty thing. Roger getting full royalties from HFE while Brien only got 1/3 from TMLWKY. The other songs are either credited to Queen or Freddie. Having said that, Mother Love is without a doubt a very special song for Brian. It was the last time Freddie and Brian were in the studio together making new music. Brian has described on many interviews those last sessions when Freddie's is very ill and asks to give him anything to sing, and Brian writes a line on a piece of paper and Freddie sings it... 'til he can't anymore (you know the story). So, I also think Brian wanted the world to know that it was their baby, the last musical collaboration between them. A very special song, indeed. A very strong point, I agree. Oddly enough, it wasn't released as a single. The MIH singles were credited to Queen / Roger (HFE) / Brian+Friends (TMLWKY).
What about You Don't Fool Me, credited to Queen? There were just some songs that sounded like they would work better as singles in the mid-90s, and some that seemed less likely to. Mother Love didn't have hit potential in 1995/96. You Don't Fool Me did, even if it is the lesser of the two songs.
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Post by alexlizzy on Oct 1, 2024 10:33:58 GMT
I suspect it's because it meant Brian and Roger got similar amount of writers royalties from the album. Brian had to share both his with other writers, two co-credits for one full credit. That seems so petty-minded, if true, forgive my negativity. Both Brian and Roger are multimillionaires rolling in money, already by 1995. Would it really matter in real life in terms of money if Roger did get slightly more writers royalties from one album? Would Brian get any poorer in any practical sense? No. Its like siblings children demanding that the pieces of cake they got are exactly equal in size.....
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Post by alexlizzy on Oct 1, 2024 10:56:01 GMT
And then there is "Mother Love", how would Roger and John have finished it? I might be wrong, but as far as I remember the version of "Mother Love" we hear on the album was practically pretty much finished already in 1991, before Freddie's death. Surely probably without the sound collage in the end, but otherwise, even with Brian's verse.
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Oct 1, 2024 12:38:05 GMT
I suspect it's because it meant Brian and Roger got similar amount of writers royalties from the album. Brian had to share both his with other writers, two co-credits for one full credit. That seems so petty-minded, if true, forgive my negativity. Both Brian and Roger are multimillionaires rolling in money, already by 1995. Would it really matter in real life in terms of money if Roger did get slightly more writers royalties from one album? Would Brian get any poorer in any practical sense? No. Its like siblings children demanding that the pieces of cake they got are exactly equal in size..... Well that's the exact reason they decided to credit everything as "Queen" for the miracle and Innuendo, because petty arguments, so yeah they happened even tjough the band had millions.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Oct 1, 2024 13:12:24 GMT
I suspect it's because it meant Brian and Roger got similar amount of writers royalties from the album. Brian had to share both his with other writers, two co-credits for one full credit. That seems so petty-minded, if true, forgive my negativity. Both Brian and Roger are multimillionaires rolling in money, already by 1995. Would it really matter in real life in terms of money if Roger did get slightly more writers royalties from one album? Would Brian get any poorer in any practical sense? No. Its like siblings children demanding that the pieces of cake they got are exactly equal in size..... Considering their many past arguments about songwriting royalties, I'd say this is the most grown-up solution imaginable. Most people don't realize this, but when singles were released on 45s in the 1970s and '80s, whoever wrote the B-side received as much royalties as whoever wrote the A-side - it was a 50/50 split. Imagine the fights they had about Bohemian Rhapsody alone. This is almost certainly why Brian May got the next two big ones: Best Friend and Somebody to Love. But even combined they were no match for the success of BoRhap. I'm pretty sure Roger ended up in a house before Brian (in 1978, as it took years to pay off the Trident debt), and I have little doubt this complicated things for them considerably. It's things like this and so much more that we'll never know about that informed their later decisions about songwriting credits. We cannot possibly imagine the depth and layers of their 55+ year old relationship.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Oct 1, 2024 13:15:25 GMT
And then there is "Mother Love", how would Roger and John have finished it? I might be wrong, but as far as I remember the version of "Mother Love" we hear on the album was practically pretty much finished already in 1991, before Freddie's death. Surely probably without the sound collage in the end, but otherwise, even with Brian's verse. That I highly doubt. I'd imagine Brian's vocal was added circa 1994, as they were hoping Freddie would make it back for another session to finish the song. Or maybe the extra verse was added after the fact, as the guitar solo may have been an afterthought. Another state secret that we'll probably never know about. Sometimes the mystique is king.
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Post by agkelly on Oct 1, 2024 13:28:03 GMT
And then there is "Mother Love", how would Roger and John have finished it? I might be wrong, but as far as I remember the version of "Mother Love" we hear on the album was practically pretty much finished already in 1991, before Freddie's death. Surely probably without the sound collage in the end, but otherwise, even with Brian's verse. I think the backing track was either already done, or at least a basic version of it that Freddie sang to was done at the time. We know the story of Brian's guide vocals to the song, so I won't rehash that. Personally, I think the gist of the backing track was probably already done at that point, as Brian has made comments that the track was left as it was at the point where Freddie stopped coming in. Again, he may have been referring to the vocals more than the track as a whole, though.
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Post by agkelly on Oct 1, 2024 13:32:59 GMT
I might be wrong, but as far as I remember the version of "Mother Love" we hear on the album was practically pretty much finished already in 1991, before Freddie's death. Surely probably without the sound collage in the end, but otherwise, even with Brian's verse. That I highly doubt. I'd imagine Brian's vocal was added circa 1994, as they were hoping Freddie would make it back for another session to finish the song.Or maybe the extra verse was added after the fact, as the guitar solo may have been an afterthought. Another state secret that we'll probably never know about. Sometimes the mystique is king. Brian has said on a number of occasions that he had done a guide vocal for Freddie, and as Freddie was able to come in and sing, he'd do what he could then go again. Brian's final verse of the song IS his guide vocal. He's said that it was left in as that's the way it was when Freddie stopped coming in.
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Post by Maxi Dries on Oct 1, 2024 13:45:11 GMT
I remember reading somewere (Mr. Scully's glorious site?) that in some Queen Convention around 2000/1, GB said there are lots of versions of Mother Love with Brian and Roger singing lead vocals.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Oct 1, 2024 14:00:10 GMT
That I highly doubt. I'd imagine Brian's vocal was added circa 1994, as they were hoping Freddie would make it back for another session to finish the song.Or maybe the extra verse was added after the fact, as the guitar solo may have been an afterthought. Another state secret that we'll probably never know about. Sometimes the mystique is king. Brian has said on a number of occasions that he had done a guide vocal for Freddie, and as Freddie was able to come in and sing, he'd do what he could then go again. Brian's final verse of the song IS his guide vocal. He's said that it was left in as that's the way it was when Freddie stopped coming in. Interesting - that's the first I've heard of this. Can you point me to a reference of Brian saying that ? But part of me doubts what we're hearing on the album is the guide vocal - this is a very polished final vocal. Guide vocals are typically very hastily done. And we all know Brian is a perfectionist.
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emrabt
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Post by emrabt on Oct 1, 2024 14:06:04 GMT
I might be wrong, but as far as I remember the version of "Mother Love" we hear on the album was practically pretty much finished already in 1991, before Freddie's death. Surely probably without the sound collage in the end, but otherwise, even with Brian's verse. I think the backing track was either already done, or at least a basic version of it that Freddie sang to was done at the time. We know the story of Brian's guide vocals to the song, so I won't rehash that. Personally, I think the gist of the backing track was probably already done at that point, as Brian has made comments that the track was left as it was at the point where Freddie stopped coming in. Again, he may have been referring to the vocals more than the track as a whole, though. I've not heard that before.
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