baronlutenvank
Ploughman
The Username Formerly Known as Killer_queenIII
Posts: 376
Likes: 263
|
Post by baronlutenvank on Oct 1, 2024 14:29:39 GMT
I gotta admit I got confused about the topic at 1st. I only just noticed that Mother Love was exempted from "Credited to Queen" rule. This has to be a mere oversight of sorts.
|
|
|
|
Post by airpodsmax on Oct 1, 2024 14:39:22 GMT
In The Days Of Our Lives documentary, Brian said if I correctly remember they had three vocal takes for each line and that's it. Truly, I'm not sure that this phrase was referred to Mother love track, but nevertheless.
I fully admit that Freddie did three vocal takes for the last part of the song, but either he was not satisfied with the takes, and there was no physical or moral strength left for re-recording, or they lost these takes, because the work began 2–3 years later. That's why they could come up with the story that Freddie didn't finish the recording because he was tired and planned to finish later, which, unfortunately, did not happen.
|
|
baronlutenvank
Ploughman
The Username Formerly Known as Killer_queenIII
Posts: 376
Likes: 263
|
Post by baronlutenvank on Oct 1, 2024 14:46:13 GMT
I'm sure the tapes were well-stored in Mountain in the time between the last time Freddie laid his vocals and the rest of the band picked up the pieces, and there would be safety copies of the tapes.
|
|
thecrazyworks
Tatterdemalion
When I'm holding your wheel all I hear is your gear...
Posts: 7
Likes: 7
|
Post by thecrazyworks on Oct 1, 2024 15:00:37 GMT
Brian has said on a number of occasions that he had done a guide vocal for Freddie, and as Freddie was able to come in and sing, he'd do what he could then go again. Brian's final verse of the song IS his guide vocal. He's said that it was left in as that's the way it was when Freddie stopped coming in. Interesting - that's the first I've heard of this. Can you point me to a reference of Brian saying that ? But part of me doubts what we're hearing on the album is the guide vocal - this is a very polished final vocal. Guide vocals are typically very hastily done. And we all know Brian is a perfectionist. I think Brian re-recorded his vocal part using his guide vocal (excuse the redundancy). |
|
creepy
Satyr
Posts: 87
Likes: 89
|
Post by creepy on Oct 1, 2024 16:55:50 GMT
In The Days Of Our Lives documentary, Brian said if I correctly remember they had three vocal takes for each line and that's it. Truly, I'm not sure that this phrase was referred to Mother love track, but nevertheless. I fully admit that Freddie did three vocal takes for the last part of the song, but either he was not satisfied with the takes, and there was no physical or moral strength left for re-recording, or they lost these takes, because the work began 2–3 years later. That's why they could come up with the story that Freddie didn't finish the recording because he was tired and planned to finish later, which, unfortunately, did not happen. I think Freddie, like Brian says, didn't finish the song. Somewhere I read a statement from a person close to Freddie (I don't remember who it was, sorry)...according to this person, Freddie said that Brian could sing the final part of the song since, after all, the song was a Brian composition. From these words it could be deduced that Freddie gave up finishing the recording for the obvious reasons that we all know. For me, Freddie had heroic behavior in his last year of life. He sang until he couldn't do it anymore. I have no doubt that if Freddie had been in a little better health, he would have continued recording more songs, without stopping, until finishing the album they wanted to make. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that the band's intention at the beginning of 1991 was to record some songs as b-sides, but they changed their way of thinking and started recording with the intention of finishing a new album. For this reason, it strikes me that from the end of January to May only one attempt was made to record a single song. In any case, the three songs they recorded in the post-Innuendo period are authentic gems of incalculable value. |
|
|
|
Post by Maxi Dries on Oct 1, 2024 19:04:44 GMT
In The Days Of Our Lives documentary, Brian said if I correctly remember they had three vocal takes for each line and that's it. Truly, I'm not sure that this phrase was referred to Mother love track, but nevertheless. I fully admit that Freddie did three vocal takes for the last part of the song, but either he was not satisfied with the takes, and there was no physical or moral strength left for re-recording, or they lost these takes, because the work began 2–3 years later. That's why they could come up with the story that Freddie didn't finish the recording because he was tired and planned to finish later, which, unfortunately, did not happen. I think Freddie, like Brian says, didn't finish the song. Somewhere I read a statement from a person close to Freddie (I don't remember who it was, sorry)...according to this person, Freddie said that Brian could sing the final part of the song since, after all, the song was a Brian composition. From these words it could be deduced that Freddie gave up finishing the recording for the obvious reasons that we all know. For me, Freddie had heroic behavior in his last year of life. He sang until he couldn't do it anymore. I have no doubt that if Freddie had been in a little better health, he would have continued recording more songs, without stopping, until finishing the album they wanted to make. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that the band's intention at the beginning of 1991 was to record some songs as b-sides, but they changed their way of thinking and started recording with the intention of finishing a new album. For this reason, it strikes me that from the end of January to May only one attempt was made to record a single song. In any case, the three songs they recorded in the post-Innuendo period are authentic gems of incalculable value. There are more than three songs. |
|
|
|
Post by disco_mart on Oct 1, 2024 20:07:09 GMT
I think Freddie, like Brian says, didn't finish the song. Somewhere I read a statement from a person close to Freddie (I don't remember who it was, sorry)...according to this person, Freddie said that Brian could sing the final part of the song since, after all, the song was a Brian composition. From these words it could be deduced that Freddie gave up finishing the recording for the obvious reasons that we all know. For me, Freddie had heroic behavior in his last year of life. He sang until he couldn't do it anymore. I have no doubt that if Freddie had been in a little better health, he would have continued recording more songs, without stopping, until finishing the album they wanted to make. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that the band's intention at the beginning of 1991 was to record some songs as b-sides, but they changed their way of thinking and started recording with the intention of finishing a new album. For this reason, it strikes me that from the end of January to May only one attempt was made to record a single song. In any case, the three songs they recorded in the post-Innuendo period are authentic gems of incalculable value. There are more than three songs. I just hope they see the light of day at some stage. The Roger version of Mother Love too, especially as its my fav Queen track. |
|
creepy
Satyr
Posts: 87
Likes: 89
|
Post by creepy on Oct 1, 2024 21:40:36 GMT
I think Freddie, like Brian says, didn't finish the song. Somewhere I read a statement from a person close to Freddie (I don't remember who it was, sorry)...according to this person, Freddie said that Brian could sing the final part of the song since, after all, the song was a Brian composition. From these words it could be deduced that Freddie gave up finishing the recording for the obvious reasons that we all know. For me, Freddie had heroic behavior in his last year of life. He sang until he couldn't do it anymore. I have no doubt that if Freddie had been in a little better health, he would have continued recording more songs, without stopping, until finishing the album they wanted to make. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that the band's intention at the beginning of 1991 was to record some songs as b-sides, but they changed their way of thinking and started recording with the intention of finishing a new album. For this reason, it strikes me that from the end of January to May only one attempt was made to record a single song. In any case, the three songs they recorded in the post-Innuendo period are authentic gems of incalculable value. There are more than three songs. Do you think there are more than 3 songs recorded in 1991 with Freddie as singer? |
|
|
|
Post by agkelly on Oct 1, 2024 22:44:26 GMT
Brian has said on a number of occasions that he had done a guide vocal for Freddie, and as Freddie was able to come in and sing, he'd do what he could then go again. Brian's final verse of the song IS his guide vocal. He's said that it was left in as that's the way it was when Freddie stopped coming in. Interesting - that's the first I've heard of this. Can you point me to a reference of Brian saying that ? But part of me doubts what we're hearing on the album is the guide vocal - this is a very polished final vocal. Guide vocals are typically very hastily done. And we all know Brian is a perfectionist. It's not yet 7am here so I've only had a quick look over breakfast but found this. www.caroleking.com/news/going-back-carole-king-connection-freddie-mercurys-last-song-mother-loveI think one of the places I've heard Brian himself stating that the final verse was his untouched guide vocal was probably the intro video to the Queen Studio Experience in Montreux. Roger introduces 'Made In Heaven' and Brian 'Mother Love', and they briefly describe the recording processes of the tracks. |
|
manymilesaway
Politician
Cookin' up remasters
Posts: 788
Likes: 2,384
|
Post by manymilesaway on Oct 1, 2024 22:47:39 GMT
On the topic of Mother Love, I do wish that they replaced the drum machine from the backing track with real drums by Roger. Would've made it sound more dramatic, more of a fitting "final" Queen song.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Real Wizard on Oct 1, 2024 23:08:53 GMT
Interesting - that's the first I've heard of this. Can you point me to a reference of Brian saying that ? But part of me doubts what we're hearing on the album is the guide vocal - this is a very polished final vocal. Guide vocals are typically very hastily done. And we all know Brian is a perfectionist. It's not yet 7am here so I've only had a quick look over breakfast but found this. www.caroleking.com/news/going-back-carole-king-connection-freddie-mercurys-last-song-mother-loveI think one of the places I've heard Brian himself stating that the final verse was his untouched guide vocal was probably the intro video to the Queen Studio Experience in Montreux. Roger introduces 'Made In Heaven' and Brian 'Mother Love', and they briefly describe the recording processes of the tracks. Fascinating - this is quite the revelation to me. May wanted the song to remain as raw and naked as possible to "preserve this final moment uncluttered."That's actually pretty incredible. |
|
Lord Fickle
Global Moderator 
Posts: 26,021
Likes: 11,243
|
Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 1, 2024 23:39:47 GMT
On the topic of Mother Love, I do wish that they replaced the drum machine from the backing track with real drums by Roger. Would've made it sound more dramatic, more of a fitting "final" Queen song. Much as I hate drum machines, I think it worked on this one. It's serene, and tranquil, just as it needed to be. |
|
baronlutenvank
Ploughman
The Username Formerly Known as Killer_queenIII
Posts: 376
Likes: 263
|
Post by baronlutenvank on Oct 2, 2024 4:53:57 GMT
Something I've been meaning to ask for a long while, where was it originally said that Brian used a Parker Fly for the solo?
|
|
|
|
Post by alexlizzy on Oct 2, 2024 11:15:26 GMT
That seems so petty-minded, if true, forgive my negativity. Both Brian and Roger are multimillionaires rolling in money, already by 1995. Would it really matter in real life in terms of money if Roger did get slightly more writers royalties from one album? Would Brian get any poorer in any practical sense? No. Its like siblings children demanding that the pieces of cake they got are exactly equal in size..... Well that's the exact reason they decided to credit everything as "Queen" for the miracle and Innuendo, because petty arguments, so yeah they happened even tjough the band had millions. Well, it makes sense as a general principle, sure, but in context of MIH, when, because of the circumstances, Roger just happened to have ONE "extra" writing credit, it seems silly and petty to try to "fix" it somehow for Brian. It's just one more song and its 1995, not 1975, when they were almost broke and money did matter. |
|
|
|
Post by alexlizzy on Oct 2, 2024 11:18:55 GMT
That seems so petty-minded, if true, forgive my negativity. Both Brian and Roger are multimillionaires rolling in money, already by 1995. Would it really matter in real life in terms of money if Roger did get slightly more writers royalties from one album? Would Brian get any poorer in any practical sense? No. Its like siblings children demanding that the pieces of cake they got are exactly equal in size..... Considering their many past arguments about songwriting royalties, I'd say this is the most grown-up solution imaginable. Most people don't realize this, but when singles were released on 45s in the 1970s and '80s, whoever wrote the B-side received as much royalties as whoever wrote the A-side - it was a 50/50 split. Imagine the fights they had about Bohemian Rhapsody alone. This is almost certainly why Brian May got the next two big ones: Best Friend and Somebody to Love. But even combined they were no match for the success of BoRhap. I'm pretty sure Roger ended up in a house before Brian (in 1978, as it took years to pay off the Trident debt), and I have little doubt this complicated things for them considerably. It's things like this and so much more that we'll never know about that informed their later decisions about songwriting credits. We cannot possibly imagine the depth and layers of their 55+ year old relationship. See above. It makes sense in 1975, but not in 1995 anymore, when they are all rolling in money and financially secured for the rest of their lives. And what about John then, he got the least writing roaylties from MIH then, which kinda contradicts the "Roger and Brian tried to divide their cake as even as possible" and surely wouldnt feel good for him - if it mattered that much for them. |
|
|
|
Post by alexlizzy on Oct 2, 2024 11:23:11 GMT
On the topic of Mother Love, I do wish that they replaced the drum machine from the backing track with real drums by Roger. Would've made it sound more dramatic, more of a fitting "final" Queen song. Much as I hate drum machines, I think it worked on this one. It's serene, and tranquil, just as it needed to be. I agree. It suits the track very well. |
|
|
|
Post by The Real Wizard on Oct 2, 2024 13:15:29 GMT
Considering their many past arguments about songwriting royalties, I'd say this is the most grown-up solution imaginable. Most people don't realize this, but when singles were released on 45s in the 1970s and '80s, whoever wrote the B-side received as much royalties as whoever wrote the A-side - it was a 50/50 split. Imagine the fights they had about Bohemian Rhapsody alone. This is almost certainly why Brian May got the next two big ones: Best Friend and Somebody to Love. But even combined they were no match for the success of BoRhap. I'm pretty sure Roger ended up in a house before Brian (in 1978, as it took years to pay off the Trident debt), and I have little doubt this complicated things for them considerably. It's things like this and so much more that we'll never know about that informed their later decisions about songwriting credits. We cannot possibly imagine the depth and layers of their 55+ year old relationship. See above. It makes sense in 1975, but not in 1995 anymore, when they are all rolling in money and financially secured for the rest of their lives. And what about John then, he got the least writing roaylties from MIH then, which kinda contradicts the "Roger and Brian tried to divide their cake as even as possible" and surely wouldnt feel good for him - if it mattered that much for them. And then he was out of the band two years later. We can only speculate, but if they've only spoken through lawyers for the last 25 years, whatever happened probably wasn't pretty. You may well be right - but John also wasn't writing too many songs by the early '90s, so maybe they came to some kind of agreement before things went south. He wasn't even around when Steve Howe did his overdubs on Innuendo, during a period where they're touted as being a "closely knit unit." |
|
|
|
Post by Maxi Dries on Oct 2, 2024 14:07:27 GMT
On the topic of Mother Love, I do wish that they replaced the drum machine from the backing track with real drums by Roger. Would've made it sound more dramatic, more of a fitting "final" Queen song. Interesting. I always thought that real drums were used, but, of course, reversed and looped. |
|
emrabt
Wordles & Heardles 
Politician
Posts: 753
Likes: 550
|
Post by emrabt on Oct 2, 2024 14:17:29 GMT
Well that's the exact reason they decided to credit everything as "Queen" for the miracle and Innuendo, because petty arguments, so yeah they happened even tjough the band had millions. Well, it makes sense as a general principle, sure, but in context of MIH, when, because of the circumstances, Roger just happened to have ONE "extra" writing credit, it seems silly and petty to try to "fix" it somehow for Brian. It's just one more song and its 1995, not 1975, when they were almost broke and money did matter. My example was 1988 - 1991, when they each had a lot of money, not 1975. Clearly even late on Royalties were a touchy subject within the band. Brain wasn't involved in the Made in Heaven project for years, I can see why "Equal contributions" may have been a topic of discussion when he became part of it. They are human and the fact of life is that arguments do turn petty. Even with people you love. Ego does clash with ego. We don't know for a fact this is why it's credited this way on Made in Heaven, but we do know for a fact it's why they started crediting writing to "Queen" for the previous two albums, to stop arguments. I know Brian in particular goes out of his way to equally include all 4 members in official products, maybe it stems from these years. |
|
Lord Fickle
Global Moderator
Posts: 26,021
Likes: 11,243
|
Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 2, 2024 17:04:39 GMT
I've often wondered if Mother Love should have been the last track on the album. It would have been like closing a chapter. Perhaps they might have if Freddie had finished it?
|
|
|
|
Post by Maxi Dries on Oct 2, 2024 19:10:05 GMT
I've often wondered if Mother Love should have been the last track on the album. It would have been like closing a chapter. Perhaps they might have if Freddie had finished it? It's hard to beat A Winter's Tale as final track. BUT, if I could rearrange the song, I would reorganize the verses of Mother Love, delete the last (by Brian), to make this the very last Freddie full song. Radical? Yes, but could work fine.
|
|
creepy
Satyr
Posts: 87
Likes: 89
|
Post by creepy on Oct 2, 2024 20:21:35 GMT
I've often wondered if Mother Love should have been the last track on the album. It would have been like closing a chapter. Perhaps they might have if Freddie had finished it? It's hard to beat A Winter's Tale as final track. BUT, if I could rearrange the song, I would reorganize the verses of Mother Love, delete the last (by Brian), to make this the very last Freddie full song. Radical? Yes, but could work fine.
I think the band made the right decision when finishing the song. Otherwise, almost 30 years later, we would be wondering what the lyrics of the final verse were. And we would also be wondering why it was not sung by another member of the band. |
|
vh
Ploughman
Posts: 465
Likes: 475
|
Post by vh on Oct 2, 2024 20:57:00 GMT
It's hard to beat A Winter's Tale as final track. BUT, if I could rearrange the song, I would reorganize the verses of Mother Love, delete the last (by Brian), to make this the very last Freddie full song. Radical? Yes, but could work fine.
I think the band made the right decision when finishing the song. Otherwise, almost 30 years later, we would be wondering what the lyrics of the final verse were. And we would also be wondering why it was not sung by another member of the band. The alternative would have been to end the song with Freddie’s final verse and extend Brian’s solo to form an instrumental outro. We wouldn’t be any the wiser. Remember we’re now looking back at the song and hearing that bit that Freddie didn’t record. We are only aware of it because they chose to include it. |
|
creepy
Satyr
Posts: 87
Likes: 89
|
Post by creepy on Oct 2, 2024 22:21:44 GMT
I think the band made the right decision when finishing the song. Otherwise, almost 30 years later, we would be wondering what the lyrics of the final verse were. And we would also be wondering why it was not sung by another member of the band. The alternative would have been to end the song with Freddie’s final verse and extend Brian’s solo to form an instrumental outro. We wouldn’t be any the wiser. Remember we’re now looking back at the song and hearing that bit that Freddie didn’t record. We are only aware of it because they chose to include it. We are aware that there is a final verse, not only because it was included, but also because there are statements by Brian May in which he says that there was a final verse that he could not sing. I don't have the slightest doubt that there would have been a debate a thousand times over which lyrics Freddie didn't sing. It can be deduced from some statements that Freddie urged Brian to complete the song. The song was released exactly as Queen and Freddie in particular wanted. |
|
vh
Ploughman
Posts: 465
Likes: 475
|
Post by vh on Oct 3, 2024 15:37:22 GMT
The alternative would have been to end the song with Freddie’s final verse and extend Brian’s solo to form an instrumental outro. We wouldn’t be any the wiser. Remember we’re now looking back at the song and hearing that bit that Freddie didn’t record. We are only aware of it because they chose to include it. We are aware that there is a final verse, not only because it was included, but also because there are statements by Brian May in which he says that there was a final verse that he could not sing. I don't have the slightest doubt that there would have been a debate a thousand times over which lyrics Freddie didn't sing. It can be deduced from some statements that Freddie urged Brian to complete the song. The song was released exactly as Queen and Freddie in particular wanted. I think you’ve missed my point. We are all aware of what was recorded, by who and why. I was just offering an alternative where by the song would have a different ending and we would be none the wiser. |
|
