BrƎИsꓘi
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They called it paradise, I don't know why...You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 27, 2020 21:48:16 GMT
YES!!! This is so true...if they didn’t tour they would get criticism, if they do tour it’s never right. You can’t please all of the people all of the time. I’m just glad they are enjoying themselves and that there are many people out there enjoying what they do too. conversely, in the complete absence of proof either way, criticisms of their choice can also be invalid. |
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 27, 2020 21:50:28 GMT
You definitely have a right not to like AL, or not to like the fact that they call themselves Queen without all the original members, or that they are just looking for money. Those are based on your feelings about them, not on something you can back up with data. I would call those opinions, not really criticism. But I still say that you can’t give everyone positive opinions all of the time. Not saying they aren’t valid, but for some people they enjoy having a negative opinion no matter what the band does!😊 There are also people who refuse acknowledge negative aspects and defend no matter what the truth may be, So, what ultimately was your point?
Is your point that because they can’t please all the people all the time they should ignore fan’s opinions? Or just negative criticisms.
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 27, 2020 21:55:43 GMT
That makes no sense.
Just because one can, doesn’t mean they should.
If it’s a money grab, that’s not genuine or respectable. Unless you have a reason for using large fonts, such as a visual impairment, could I respectfully ask that you use normal sized fonts in posts? Thanks. 🙂
There is no reason to counter an argument that was never made in the first place. |
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 27, 2020 21:58:03 GMT
You definitely have a right not to like AL, or not to like the fact that they call themselves Queen without all the original members, or that they are just looking for money. Those are based on your feelings about them, not on something you can back up with data. I would call those opinions, not really criticism. But I still say that you can’t give everyone positive opinions all of the time. Not saying they aren’t valid, but for some people they enjoy having a negative opinion no matter what the band does!😊 There are also people who refuse acknowledge negative aspects and defend no matter what the truth may be, So, what ultimately was your point?
Is your point that because they can’t please all the people all the time they should ignore fan’s opinions? Or just negative criticisms.
sorry, but that's utter rubbish. there's a huge difference between respecting their right to do as they wish and being a stepford. you'll find that this forum has a 50/50 split between those who like the new Queen+ stuff and those that don't (i don't). when the band gets it wrong we say so. but wrong is NOT about stopping everything because we don;t like the choice of singer. let them get on with it - if people buy it then it'll succeed, that'll be judgment enough. if people don;t like it, it'll fail. regardless of my own dislike for it and QPR, QAL has succeeded extremely well where QPR failed. therefore, (again, despite my own dislike) i accept it's been a great decision for the band and fans. |
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 27, 2020 22:04:47 GMT
That may be so, but that doesn’t mean that the criticisms aren’t valid. conversely, in the complete absence of proof either way, criticisms of their choice can also be invalid.
My point was that whether people like to find fault, or like to compliment, that has no bearing on the truth of what they assert. |
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BrƎИsꓘi
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They called it paradise, I don't know why...You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 27, 2020 22:05:30 GMT
Unless you have a reason for using large fonts, such as a visual impairment, could I respectfully ask that you use normal sized fonts in posts? Thanks. 🙂
There is no reason to counter an argument that was never made in the first place.well you managed perfectly well this time yesterday, so please make whatever adjustments you need on your computer, while at the same time posting in the same size fonts as you did yesterday and in previous posts....as below: also, posting in one font size does not explain how you can read others' normal sized posts. ]Agreed. Not just the grammar mistake, but the off phrasing of “yes - happy as I have never been”. It comes off as though someone with English as a second language wrote it. Does anyone have any details on this item beyond internet claims and rumors?
It’s history, where it came from? When did it emerge? Where is it now? Is it genuine? How do we know?
I’ve seen rumours about it, who owns it, how it was obtained... But nothing more than internet strangers making claims with no documentation or substantiation.
It doesn’t seem to have been online before news of Rami having been cast. So, it’s suspicious this “popped up” at the time that it did.
They should’ve retired in 1991. The music was with Freddie. i have nothing against Adam, I think he’s talented and respectful of Freddie. But I don’t consider tribute bands “bringing the music to the masses”. I see it as bringing bastardized “covers” and kind of sad. Does anyone know when this note first become public? Was it after BoRhap production started? Is anyone good at googling Photos to find the earliest known posting online?[/quote] |
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 27, 2020 22:08:37 GMT
There are also people who refuse acknowledge negative aspects and defend no matter what the truth may be, So, what ultimately was your point?
Is your point that because they can’t please all the people all the time they should ignore fan’s opinions? Or just negative criticisms.
sorry, but that's utter rubbish. there's a huge difference between respecting their right to do as they wish and being a stepford. you'll find that this forum has a 50/50 split between those who like the new Queen+ stuff and those that don't (i don't). when the band gets it wrong we say so. but wrong is NOT about stopping everything because we don;t like the choice of singer. let them get on with it - if people buy it then it'll succeed, that'll be judgment enough. if people don;t like it, it'll fail. regardless of my own dislike for it and QPR, QAL has succeeded extremely well where QPR failed. therefore, (again, despite my own dislike) i accept it's been a great decision for the band and fans. The success of something does not, by default inoculate it if it was wrong or inappropriate or a money grab to begin with. |
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 27, 2020 22:15:59 GMT
Yes, you may. My reason is that I need to see larger fonts,
There is no reason to counter an argument that was never made in the first place. well you managed perfectly well this time yesterday, so please make whatever adjustments you need on your computer, while at the same time posting in the same size fonts as you did yesterday and in previous posts....as below: also, posting in one font size does not explain how you can read others' normal sized posts.
When I adjust on the iPad I’m using it limits the reading area.
I don’t understand why you would have an issue with it,
Yes it would make it much easier for me if others increased their fonts. But since I can’t (nor want to) control other people, I can only do what I can do.
It works better for me when I use the tools on the board. They are there for us to utilize, are they not? |
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Post by Mustapha Ibrahim on Aug 27, 2020 22:21:25 GMT
sorry, but that's utter rubbish. there's a huge difference between respecting their right to do as they wish and being a stepford. you'll find that this forum has a 50/50 split between those who like the new Queen+ stuff and those that don't (i don't). when the band gets it wrong we say so. but wrong is NOT about stopping everything because we don;t like the choice of singer. let them get on with it - if people buy it then it'll succeed, that'll be judgment enough. if people don;t like it, it'll fail. regardless of my own dislike for it and QPR, QAL has succeeded extremely well where QPR failed. therefore, (again, despite my own dislike) i accept it's been a great decision for the band and fans. The success of something does not, by default inoculate it if it was wrong or inappropriate or a money grab to begin with. I sort of agree with what you're saying. You're describing a logical fallacy (the assumption that the popular choice is automatically correct). But! In this case, it's Queen. They can do what they want. There are many people who love Q + AL as those who prefer Freddie. All Queen cares about is if their new fans like their new things or not. Since they're getting positive reviews, they'll continue making more things like it. |
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 27, 2020 22:26:58 GMT
The success of something does not, by default inoculate it if it was wrong or inappropriate or a money grab to begin with. I sort of agree with what you're saying. You're describing a logical fallacy (the assumption that the popular choice is automatically correct). But! In this case, it's Queen. They can do what they want.
There are many people who love Q + AL as those who prefer Freddie. All Queen cares about is if their new fans like their new things or not. Since they're getting positive reviews, they'll continue making more things like it. But they’re not getting all positive reviews and they have old fans too that they may be alienating. |
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Post by Mustapha Ibrahim on Aug 27, 2020 22:30:31 GMT
That's why I said new fans.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 27, 2020 22:32:24 GMT
well you managed perfectly well this time yesterday, so please make whatever adjustments you need on your computer, while at the same time posting in the same size fonts as you did yesterday and in previous posts....as below: also, posting in one font size does not explain how you can read others' normal sized posts.
When I adjust on the iPad I’m using it limits the reading area.
I don’t understand why you would have an issue with it,
Yes it would make it much easier for me if others increased their fonts. But since I can’t (nor want to) control other people, I can only do what I can do.
It works better for me when I use the tools on the board. They are there for us to utilize, are they not?
Have you tried using the Mobile version of the forum? There's a link to it at the very bottom of each page. I think you'll find that the default text display is larger using the mobile interface. I have trouble myself using the full version of the forum on a phone as I keep having to zoom in and out. |
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 28, 2020 2:44:36 GMT
No, I didn’t manage well, which is why I started using the tools.
When I adjust on the iPad I’m using it limits the reading area.
I don’t understand why you would have an issue with it,
Yes it would make it much easier for me if others increased their fonts. But since I can’t (nor want to) control other people, I can only do what I can do.
It works better for me when I use the tools on the board. They are there for us to utilize, are they not? Have you tried using the Mobile version of the forum? There's a link to it at the very bottom of each page. I think you'll find that the default text display is larger using the mobile interface. I have trouble myself using the full version of the forum on a phone as I keep having to zoom in and out. OH! That helps, thank you! |
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Post by soxtalon on Aug 28, 2020 3:59:31 GMT
I sort of agree with what you're saying. You're describing a logical fallacy (the assumption that the popular choice is automatically correct). But! In this case, it's Queen. They can do what they want. There are many people who love Q + AL as those who prefer Freddie. All Queen cares about is if their new fans like their new things or not. Since they're getting positive reviews, they'll continue making more things like it. But they’re not getting all positive reviews and they have old fans too that they may be alienating. So if they aren't getting 100% positive reviews - it's worthless? As to the second point? Fans they are alienating? I would say that's more on the fan mindset than the band. You can argue it's a money grab if you want, but it's pretty easy to see the band is enjoying themselves and so that's at least part of the reason. So a band doing something they enjoy doing while they are still physically able to do it, and perhaps be well paid for their efforts, in no way is not genuine or respectable. The fan doesn't have to like the decision for whatever reason and indeed perhaps that does alienate them a bit from the band. But that doesn't make B&R's decision any less genuine or respectable. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 28, 2020 9:12:30 GMT
Have you tried using the Mobile version of the forum? There's a link to it at the very bottom of each page. I think you'll find that the default text display is larger using the mobile interface. I have trouble myself using the full version of the forum on a phone as I keep having to zoom in and out. OH! That helps, thank you! You're welcome! |
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 28, 2020 11:32:38 GMT
Who said they can’t do what they want?
But they’re not getting all positive reviews and they have old fans too that they may be alienating. So if they aren't getting 100% positive reviews - it's worthless? As to the second point? Fans they are alienating? I would say that's more on the fan mindset than the band. You can argue it's a money grab if you want, but it's pretty easy to see the band is enjoying themselves and so that's at least part of the reason. So a band doing something they enjoy doing while they are still physically able to do it, and perhaps be well paid for their efforts, in no way is not genuine or respectable. The fan doesn't have to like the decision for whatever reason and indeed perhaps that does alienate them a bit from the band. But that doesn't make B&R's decision any less genuine or respectable. Who said it’s worthless? The topic of this thread was about money-grubbing and it was suggested that because it may be successful that somehow absolves them of that. It’s like the difference between a politician who has a true belief in their platform, and those who say whatever they can to get elected. Of course there’s a little of appealing to the masses by both, but there are those politicians who you know have no altruism, and those who believe in what they’re saying. I don’t think the band seems to be enjoying themselves, the seem to be going through the motions to me, most of the time. Well, if fans don’t like it because they’re money grubbing, then yeah, it’s because make it less genuine and respectable. I don’t respect projects that are money grubbing. And this seems less sincere to me. |
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nickip
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Post by nickip on Aug 28, 2020 13:16:48 GMT
I’m interested to k ow why you think they’re going through the motions?
What have you seen while they are performing that indicates that?
Also - I use my skills and talents to make money. Am I am money-grabber?
If you don’t like it don’t go. All your whining won’t stop the people who do like it from going. And it won’t stop the band from doing it.
They are adults who make a choice. As are the people who do or do t buy tickets. I don’t get what all the fuss is about.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2020 13:21:56 GMT
Also - I use my skills and talents to make money. So would I if I had any. u.u. |
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Raf
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Post by Raf on Aug 28, 2020 14:22:50 GMT
So if they aren't getting 100% positive reviews - it's worthless? As to the second point? Fans they are alienating? I would say that's more on the fan mindset than the band. You can argue it's a money grab if you want, but it's pretty easy to see the band is enjoying themselves and so that's at least part of the reason. So a band doing something they enjoy doing while they are still physically able to do it, and perhaps be well paid for their efforts, in no way is not genuine or respectable. The fan doesn't have to like the decision for whatever reason and indeed perhaps that does alienate them a bit from the band. But that doesn't make B&R's decision any less genuine or respectable. Who said it’s worthless? The topic of this thread was about money-grubbing and it was suggested that because it may be successful that somehow absolves them of that. It’s like the difference between a politician who has a true belief in their platform, and those who say whatever they can to get elected. Of course there’s a little of appealing to the masses by both, but there are those politicians who you know have no altruism, and those who believe in what they’re saying. I don’t think the band seems to be enjoying themselves, the seem to be going through the motions to me, most of the time. Well, if fans don’t like it because they’re money grubbing, then yeah, it’s because make it less genuine and respectable. I don’t respect projects that are money grubbing. And this seems less sincere to me. Do you genuinely believe the band aren't enjoying themselves and are doing this only for the money? Brian and Roger each have a net worth of approximately 200 million dollars, and they're both over 70 years old. They could easily spend the rest of their lives at home dedicating themselves to their other hobbies and projects leading a very comfortable life and knowing that once they're gone their children definitely won't be poor. I'm not saying they don't like making cash, but I'm sure the biggest reason for them to tour is that they enjoy it. When they're on tour they do spend a significant part of the year away from their families rehearsing during the day, flying every couple of days and doing actual physical work for 2+ hours at night. What kind of rich old people would go through that if they weren't enjoying themselves? If it's hard to digest for two 200-million-dollar old men, then try to apply the same reasoning to Paul McCartney. He's older than they are, his fortune is over 1 billion dollars and his concerts are even longer than theirs. These guys DO NOT need to do this to be rich anymore. They DO NOT have to do it to pay their bills or even to have a comfortable life. As Taylor Hawkins once put it, the song We Will Rock You alone is a great retirement plan. www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/foo-fighters-taylor-hawkins-5-songs-i-wish-i-wrote-113657/queen-we-will-rock-you-2-113929/ |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Aug 28, 2020 14:37:53 GMT
Can I make a polite request that people consider not stating the obvious that Brian and Roger have a right to do what they’re doing?
I don’t think ONE PERSON here has ever claimed they don’t have the right.
Obviously this is about whether we believe these are genuine or respectable choices.
If some do or don’t want to judge, that is their right too. Sure, of course - in theory.
But in practice, in the interest of civility, why take the time to shit on something you don't like, raining on the parade of people who are enjoying it? To what end? Why not spend your time discussing things you actually do like? What's being added to the conversation if it's a 20 year old opinion that's not going to change a damn thing? |
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Aug 28, 2020 14:41:09 GMT
There are many people who love Q + AL as those who prefer Freddie. All Queen cares about is if their new fans like their new things or not. Since they're getting positive reviews, they'll continue making more things like it. But they’re not getting all positive reviews and they have old fans too that they may be alienating. and exactly how many negative gig reviews did Queen (with Freddie & John) receive? dozens (maybe hundreds). there'd be no Queen after 1976, if they'd given up as a result of those first negative reviews. |
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Aug 28, 2020 16:03:03 GMT
There are many people who love Q + AL as those who prefer Freddie. All Queen cares about is if their new fans like their new things or not. Since they're getting positive reviews, they'll continue making more things like it. But they’re not getting all positive reviews and they have old fans too that they may be alienating. and exactly how many negative gig reviews did Queen (with Freddie & John) receive? dozens (maybe hundreds). there'd be no Queen after 1976, if they'd given up as a result of those first negative reviews. Personally, I wish they would play a few more of the deeper cuts. I was quite disappointed when they dropped It's Late and Spread Your Wings after only a handful of shows, and it's not as if Adam can't handle the older material. But, Brian and Roger are nothing if not shrewd marketeers, and they know exactly what the vast majority of concert goers today want to hear, which is the biggest hits. I just wish they would dig out one or two tracks from the back catalogue that haven't been played live before (or, rarely), which might make the very predictable set lists a little more interesting. |
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 28, 2020 18:38:00 GMT
I’m interested to k ow why you think they’re going through the motions? What have you seen while they are performing that indicates that? Also - I use my skills and talents to make money. Am I am money-grabber? If you don’t like it don’t go. All your whining won’t stop the people who do like it from going. And it won’t stop the band from doing it. They are adults who make a choice. As are the people who do or do t buy tickets. I don’t get what all the fuss is about. People also use their skills and talent for money-grubbing, Who said I’m trying to stop anyone from going? The fuss is about money-grubbing. |
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 28, 2020 18:41:34 GMT
and exactly how many negative gig reviews did Queen (with Freddie & John) receive? dozens (maybe hundreds). there'd be no Queen after 1976, if they'd given up as a result of those first negative reviews. Personally, I wish they would play a few more of the deeper cuts. I was quite disappointed when they dropped It's Late and Spread Your Wings after only a handful of shows, and it's not as if Adam can't handle the older material. But, Brian and Roger are nothing if not shrewd marketeers, and they know exactly what the vast majority of concert goers today want to hear, which is the biggest hits. I just wish they would dig out one or two tracks from the back catalogue that haven't been played live before (or, rarely), which might make the very predictable set lists a little more interesting. Agreed. It’s part of why I feel they go through the motions. IMO, when you’re just going through the motions, you just play the hits. When you want to feel inspired and challenged, you throw in somethings that are unusual or atypical. |
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kimmlogan
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Post by kimmlogan on Aug 28, 2020 18:42:22 GMT
There are many people who love Q + AL as those who prefer Freddie. All Queen cares about is if their new fans like their new things or not. Since they're getting positive reviews, they'll continue making more things like it. But they’re not getting all positive reviews and they have old fans too that they may be alienating. and exactly how many negative gig reviews did Queen (with Freddie & John) receive? dozens (maybe hundreds). there'd be no Queen after 1976, if they'd given up as a result of those first negative reviews. Agreed. Reviews neither indicate failure or success. |
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Post by The Real Wizard on Aug 28, 2020 18:45:58 GMT
and exactly how many negative gig reviews did Queen (with Freddie & John) receive? dozens (maybe hundreds). there'd be no Queen after 1976, if they'd given up as a result of those first negative reviews. Personally, I wish they would play a few more of the deeper cuts. I was quite disappointed when they dropped It's Late and Spread Your Wings after only a handful of shows, and it's not as if Adam can't handle the older material. But, Brian and Roger are nothing if not shrewd marketeers, and they know exactly what the vast majority of concert goers today want to hear, which is the biggest hits. I just wish they would dig out one or two tracks from the back catalogue that haven't been played live before (or, rarely), which might make the very predictable set lists a little more interesting. Indeed. But cats like you and I aren't the target audience. To 90% of people in the arena, Love Of My Life and '39 are obscure songs.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Aug 28, 2020 18:55:23 GMT
The fuss is my personal issue with what I interpret as money-grubbing. FTFY.
It is your opinion that money is their primary objective, and nothing more than that. The fact that musicians like Brian and Roger are well past retirement age and put their bodies through hell for months at a time so that people can enjoy themselves for 2 hours a night seems to be (at best temporarily) lost on you.
This forum is a place to celebrate and debate things related to music created by a great band, not a platform to slander people whom you've never met. If that's your objective, then you're welcome to join the trolls at the lawless wild west digital Chernobyl that is Queenzone. The spirit of this forum is one of decency and respect, so consider this your one and only stern warning on this topic. If not, then...
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Post by Sakura4anime25 on Aug 28, 2020 19:09:32 GMT
At the Q+AL show I went to, I was pleasantly surprised that they performed In The Lap of the Gods... Revisited and Machines (or 'Back to Humans') and some others that aren't really in the "popular" "well-known hits" nowadays, along with all the big hits. Yeah, maybe they could be a bit more adventurous with it, but it seems to me like they do at least try to mix it up with some different/more obscure songs sometimes. Same thing with a Rolling Stones concert I went to, they performed the major hits that you would expect, but also some more obscure songs as well. I personally found it to be a good balance in both instances, but I guess I can understand preferring more of the different/less obvious songs.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Aug 28, 2020 20:26:26 GMT
Same thing with a Rolling Stones concert I went to, they performed the major hits that you would expect, but also some more obscure songs as well. There's a big difference between Queen and the Stones - almost everyone views Queen as a singles band, whereas the Stones are far more often seen as an albums band (at least for the 1968-72 era).
The fact that the Stones were inactive for most of the 1980s means they didn't have to so openly become a singles band the way Queen did. They came back for Steel Wheels and didn't need to rely on new hits to keep going. Their old albums stood up.
But because Queen had to keep churning out the hits in the 80s to adjust to the new FM radio models and the MTV era, their fanbase grew (outside of North America, of course) and those hits had to follow them wherever they went. And with that the old stuff was mostly relegated to a dustbin where it's remained ever since.
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