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Post by masterstroke on Oct 13, 2023 8:11:22 GMT
Peter Hince's book, Queen Uncovered, has just been released. I have seen an image where there is a list of songs from The Works, quite different from the one that was finally used. What catches my attention the most is the song Whipping Boy, which I don't know if the name is different from a well-known song, or an unreleased one. Another curiosity is that Man Made Paradise appears, which Freddie finally used on his solo album. Finally, Hammer To Fall and Is this The World Wue Created do not appear. imgur.com/BDdTuKG
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 13, 2023 8:17:30 GMT
Peter Hince's book, Queen Uncovered, has just been released. I have seen an image where there is a list of songs from The Works, quite different from the one that was finally used. What catches my attention the most is the song Whipping Boy, which I don't know if the name is different from a well-known song, or an unreleased one. Another curiosity is that Man Made Paradise appears, which Freddie finally used on his solo album. Finally, Hammer To Fall and Is this The World Wue Created do not appear. imgur.com/BDdTuKGHammer To Fall is listed as track 11.
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Brian's Wig
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Post by Brian's Wig on Oct 13, 2023 8:57:07 GMT
Now THAT'S an album! I really hope MMP was fully recorded by the band.
My book has a delivery ETA of next wednesday. Amazon UK are getting slower. All to push "prime" I guess.
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Post by masterstroke on Oct 13, 2023 9:15:32 GMT
Peter Hince's book, Queen Uncovered, has just been released. I have seen an image where there is a list of songs from The Works, quite different from the one that was finally used. What catches my attention the most is the song Whipping Boy, which I don't know if the name is different from a well-known song, or an unreleased one. Another curiosity is that Man Made Paradise appears, which Freddie finally used on his solo album. Finally, Hammer To Fall and Is this The World Wue Created do not appear. imgur.com/BDdTuKGHammer To Fall is listed as track 11. Oh yes, I didn't see it!
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Post by masterstroke on Oct 13, 2023 9:24:37 GMT
Two other details. Take Another Piece of Another my Heart(Let Me Live), which later appeared in Made In Heaven. Your Heart Again which was finally released on the Queen Forever compilation.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 13, 2023 10:47:33 GMT
Pretty sure Whipping Boy is I Go Crazy. I seem to recall this being mentioned on here a while back.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Oct 13, 2023 11:33:13 GMT
For many years, I was believing and still do that the works is a good album, however very short in terms of time. According with the above list, it could have been a great album, same thing I believe for the miracle album.
During the 80s their ideas were still clever, their decisions were a different story...
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dragonkiller
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Post by dragonkiller on Oct 13, 2023 12:04:07 GMT
Thanks for the heads up. Mine is getting delivered tomorrow ...advantages of prime.
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sander
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Post by sander on Oct 13, 2023 13:04:17 GMT
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georg
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Post by georg on Oct 13, 2023 13:34:48 GMT
Well I now want to hear the 4:40 version of IWTBF, 6:12 of RGG, and 6:10 of KPTOW.
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Post by macduff77 on Oct 13, 2023 15:23:02 GMT
Man, The Works could have been a cracking album; one of their best. When I see these track listings and the quality of songs left off, it really makes me wonder what went into the final decision making.
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Post by masterstroke on Oct 13, 2023 15:43:44 GMT
Yes, it makes sense that it was I Go Crazy. What a shame they didn't include it on the album and it was just a B-side of Radio Ga Ga. The guitar intro reminds me the guitar of Hell Bells by AC DC.
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pg
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Post by pg on Oct 13, 2023 17:07:40 GMT
Well I now want to hear the 4:40 version of IWTBF, 6:12 of RGG, and 6:10 of KPTOW. Possibly the length on the tape, with some of it being silence at either end? RGG is almost 6 mins anyway, isn't it?
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Oct 13, 2023 18:01:14 GMT
The guitar intro reminds me the guitar of Hell Bells by AC DC. I'd have pitched it much closer to Billy Squier's Lonely Is The Night
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Post by Queen II 74 on Oct 13, 2023 22:56:09 GMT
I really think that they could make some thing about 40 years of The Works, something more than remember some tracks and the Machines intro openning on this North American tour... if they make something like 'The Miracle' boxset with this original tracklist will be honestly pretty marvelous!
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Oct 14, 2023 8:25:00 GMT
I really think that they could make some thing about 40 years of The Works, something more than remember some tracks and the Machines intro openning on this North American tour... if they make something like 'The Miracle' boxset with this original tracklist will be honestly pretty marvelous! unfortunately, there just isn't the depth of material required to make anything substantial. The Miracle had a ton of "extras". The Works recording sessions came at a time when the band were not too close - Brian, Freddie & Roger had all been devoting time to their own solo projects, so when the band reconvened the recording sessions didn't yield huge slab of output.
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hstwakom
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Post by hstwakom on Oct 14, 2023 10:39:39 GMT
I really think that they could make some thing about 40 years of The Works, something more than remember some tracks and the Machines intro openning on this North American tour... if they make something like 'The Miracle' boxset with this original tracklist will be honestly pretty marvelous! unfortunately, there just isn't the depth of material required to make anything substantial. The Miracle had a ton of "extras". The Works recording sessions came at a time when the band were not too close - Brian, Freddie & Roger had all been devoting time to their own solo projects, so when the band reconvened the recording sessions didn't yield huge slab of output. What makes you think there's a lack of proper material to be released on potential boxset? I'd say that Works is one of the first I'd think of to get the box treatment as opposed to the earliest albums when they obviously had studio time/tape limits. They surely DO have the early takes of each song plus the amount of titles we learned from Works sessions overpasses any other album, obviously except for TM. Early takes of each song, throw in some demos of unreleased songs and you get the same thing as The Miracle box. Moreover, Sotheby's exhibition has shown that those Miracle treats we got on the box set are really only a tiny part of what they've been working on and what we'd like to hear.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Oct 14, 2023 11:02:24 GMT
Next year is the anniversary of The Works (1984) so maybe as they seem to be focused in their current tour on that album we will see some "archival" release.... Mmmm... Fully pro-audio recording of Brussels 1984 opening night and whatever video recording of it they have, beautifully presented in glorious HD or 4k with synced audio would be a dream come true. unless they fill it with outtakes and demos, there ain't much in the way of studio recordings to be had. from what's "known" to exist from the sessions: ♦ Another Little Piece Of My Heart (with Beck & Stewart?)♦ Is This The World We Created...? (piano version) ♦ It's A Hard Life (Freddie's vocal slave) ♦ Keep Passing The Open Windows (early Queen demo) ♦ Keep Passing The Open Windows (Freddie demo) ♦ Let Me In Your Heart Again - released 2014♦ Love Kills - released 2014♦ Machines (Or 'Back To Humans') (intro demo) ♦ Man Made Paradise ♦ Man On Fire ♦ Radio Ka Ka (Roger's original demo) ♦ Tear It Up (Brian vocal demo) ♦ There Must Be More To Life Than This - released 2014♦ Victory - (the Jackson estate have still to grant permission - if ever) ♦ Whipping Boy (I Go Crazy) doesn't inspire a deluxe edition, does it? unfortunately, there just isn't the depth of material required to make anything substantial. The Miracle had a ton of "extras". The Works recording sessions came at a time when the band were not too close - Brian, Freddie & Roger had all been devoting time to their own solo projects, so when the band reconvened the recording sessions didn't yield huge slab of output. What makes you think there's a lack of proper material to be released on potential boxset? I'd say that Works is one of the first I'd think of to get the box treatment as opposed to the earliest albums when they obviously had studio time/tape limits. They surely DO have the early takes of each song plus the amount of titles we learned from Works sessions overpasses any other album, obviously except for TM. Early takes of each song, throw in some demos of unreleased songs and you get the same thing as The Miracle box. Moreover, Sotheby's exhibition has shown that those Miracle treats we got on the box set are really only a tiny part of what they've been working on and what we'd like to hear. I think you've misunderstood my post. I clarified by saying that the sessions "did not yield a huge slab of material"as I said in the other thread [above]: a basic look at what we know exists compared to what we knew to exist for Miracle, is a fair starting point. The more known, then the more potential for unknown items. There was a ton of "known" unreleased Miracle tunes. For The Works, the known "unreleased" original songs appear to be two solo tunes: ♦ Man Made Paradise ♦ Man On Fire The Miracle had a lot more material recorded during the sessions, hence the boxset.
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scotttmax
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Post by scotttmax on Oct 14, 2023 12:05:35 GMT
But…. There was only two unknown songs in the Miracle box set, Water and YKYBTM and they were just demos? I’m pretty sure there’ll be stuff like that from the Works sessions, as well as alternative takes for each song? Plus the obligatory instrumental versions of each song… I’d say it’s ripe for a box set
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 14, 2023 12:53:33 GMT
There's also the 12" mixes which could make up another CD, and live stuff from The Works tour. But let's not forget, with QPL it's minimum effort for maximum reward, so what we might want and what we might get would probably be two different things.
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Oct 14, 2023 13:14:18 GMT
Very interesting! But I do not think that is anything like a suggested tracklisting or running order for the album. I think it is simply a list of everything they had, presumably at quite a late stage. It's about 52 minutes long in total, which is longer than even the Innuendo vinyl.
Looking at the sheet, someone (any handwriting experts?) it seems, has first gone through and ticked off the 'definites' for the record. Interesting that Tear It Up is not ticked, but we'll come to that.
Secondly they are totting up the running times, to see how the tracks might fit over two sides of vinyl. I think the maximum at the time was about 23 minutes per side before any audible quality loss. The first four 'ticks' on the list - Break Free, Machines, Hard Life and Prowl - all have their run times listed below.
Then it gets confusing. The number 5.30 is listed twice with a little squiggle. There is no track with this timing. So was that the 'remaining' time on side one, if the four tracks were all included? Maybe. (The four tracks add up to 17.23). If so, Ca Ca and Windows are both too long to fit, and the only other 'tick' that fits is Hammer which (we shall see) is being saved for Side 2. Maybe they are wondering if there can be 5.30 edits for either Ca Ca or Windows to make one of them fit.
So perhaps our scribe now changes tack. The number 25 is written - the amount of material so far perhaps? This is a mystery. Then below that 28.35, which is also a mystery - the only song that almost fits this 3.35 timing is Tear It Up (at 3.38). After this the songs Heart, Whip and Hammer are all added on, taking the run length to 41. Now 'Heart' (Your Heart Again) is sort of half ticked on the list - as we know there were issues with completing it in a workable key. So perhaps it is still only a possible, not a definite. At the top of the main list, neither Tear It Up or Whipping Boy are ticked - so perhaps this was a 'one or other but not both' decision (I believe Whipping Boy/I Go Crazy was not a big favourite amongst the band). And Hammer To Fall rounds things off, suggesting it was thought to be a strong closer and was thus earmarked for Side Two.
I think it's a combination of firstly working out album side timings and seeing what might sit together, but curiously there's no indication at this point that Ca Ca was intended to open things. Then again the workings out mainly seem to be about timings, as I cannot see them placing rockers like Whipping Boy and Hammer next to each other. It's an interesting indication how album 'flow' could be dictated by technology (Peter Gabriel's So in 1986 was re-sequenced for CD as he was unhappy with not being able to end the original record with 'In Your Eyes' as planned).
So there's my (very idle) speculation. Below all that we have some fairly clear notes about to-be-completed backing vocals and guitar solos, and the intriguing prospect of a horn section for Prowl..
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dragonkiller
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Post by dragonkiller on Oct 14, 2023 14:29:12 GMT
Just got my book today and it`s well presented and a lot of unreleased photos, as well as the background to some of the record picture sleeves. Well worth the price.
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Post by mercurialfreddie on Oct 14, 2023 14:40:16 GMT
unless they fill it with outtakes and demos, there ain't much in the way of studio recordings to be had. from what's "known" to exist from the sessions: ♦ Another Little Piece Of My Heart (with Beck & Stewart?)♦ Is This The World We Created...? (piano version) ♦ It's A Hard Life (Freddie's vocal slave) ♦ Keep Passing The Open Windows (early Queen demo) ♦ Keep Passing The Open Windows (Freddie demo) ♦ Let Me In Your Heart Again - released 2014♦ Love Kills - released 2014♦ Machines (Or 'Back To Humans') (intro demo) ♦ Man Made Paradise ♦ Man On Fire ♦ Radio Ka Ka (Roger's original demo) ♦ Tear It Up (Brian vocal demo) ♦ There Must Be More To Life Than This - released 2014♦ Victory - (the Jackson estate have still to grant permission - if ever) ♦ Whipping Boy (I Go Crazy) doesn't inspire a deluxe edition, does it? What makes you think there's a lack of proper material to be released on potential boxset? I'd say that Works is one of the first I'd think of to get the box treatment as opposed to the earliest albums when they obviously had studio time/tape limits. They surely DO have the early takes of each song plus the amount of titles we learned from Works sessions overpasses any other album, obviously except for TM. Early takes of each song, throw in some demos of unreleased songs and you get the same thing as The Miracle box. Moreover, Sotheby's exhibition has shown that those Miracle treats we got on the box set are really only a tiny part of what they've been working on and what we'd like to hear. I think you've misunderstood my post. I clarified by saying that the sessions "did not yield a huge slab of material"as I said in the other thread [above]: a basic look at what we know exists compared to what we knew to exist for Miracle, is a fair starting point. The more known, then the more potential for unknown items. There was a ton of "known" unreleased Miracle tunes. For The Works, the known "unreleased" original songs appear to be two solo tunes: ♦ Man Made Paradise ♦ Man On Fire The Miracle had a lot more material recorded during the sessions, hence the boxset. Brenski, wasn't there an interview where Freddie stated that they had roughly 40 songs for The Works ?
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Oct 14, 2023 15:12:17 GMT
Brenski, wasn't there an interview where Freddie stated that they had roughly 40 songs for The Works ? i wasn't aware of that. 30+ tracks were presented in some form for The Miracle. FM: out came a whole load of tracks, (which we had to sort of ) I think I seem to remember that we had to choose from something like 30 tracks to get down to this last 10, which is quite good (a good year).MR: What do you do with the 20 tracks left over?FM: They're still running about - I mean, they're there, but i think in one way it was quite hard to sift through all of them and decide - in fact that's where the rows came in. but i mean that's good - so we had to decide people had individual tracks that they liked, but in the end we had to (sort of) say - because i didn't want to work on all 30 tracks - it's a funny (i mean) Paul McCartney was next door and he had a very similar situation - he said he had literally about 30 tracks and had worked on virtually all of them.do you have a source for your Freddie Works 40 tracks? or could you be confusing the two Lps?
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Oct 14, 2023 15:22:29 GMT
I think you've misunderstood my post. I clarified by saying that the sessions "did not yield a huge slab of material"as I said in the other thread [above]: a basic look at what we know exists compared to what we knew to exist for Miracle, is a fair starting point. The more known, then the more potential for unknown items. There was a ton of "known" unreleased Miracle tunes. For The Works, the known "unreleased" original songs appear to be two solo tunes: ♦ Man Made Paradise ♦ Man On Fire The Miracle had a lot more material recorded during the sessions, hence the boxset. Brenski, wasn't there an interview where Freddie stated that they had roughly 40 songs for The Works ? I believe the 40 tracks comment related to The Game, and it was actually Roger who said it somewhere.
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katby
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Post by katby on Oct 14, 2023 17:49:28 GMT
Brenski, wasn't there an interview where Freddie stated that they had roughly 40 songs for The Works ? I believe the 40 tracks comment related to The Game, and it was actually Roger who said it somewhere. Peter Hince also mentions there being "so much stuff" that never got used from The Game in a recent interview.
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Post by deathtoming on Oct 14, 2023 17:52:56 GMT
Regarding the question about the number of tracks for The Works, here's a relevant excerpt from an interview in 1984 (note that it's an English-Japanese-English translation): Music Life: By the way, how many songs did you have for this album?
Roger: We had over 30. Not that they were all finished songs, but we picked the ones that we thought were the best. Anyway, there were a lot.Rest of the interview here: queenchat.boards.net/thread/1059/roger-john-works-promotional-japan?page=1&scrollTo=11045
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Post by mercurialfreddie on Oct 14, 2023 19:11:41 GMT
Thank you deathtoming! I have already begun to sweep through all interviews that Freddie had given in 1984 and 1985 to give you all a proper answer to Brenski's question.
For sure in the full interview with Mary Turner (1984) Freddie says - when talking about The Works - around the 16:25 mark "I had a bunch of songs for the album and I chose about 3 or 4 [for the album]".
Now I HAVE TO find (for Brenski) the interview where I swear that Roger admitted himself that he had made a suggestion that Freddie maybe should use the songs that the band had been working on [during the Works recording sessions] for his solo album.
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Post by pokemaniacjunk on Oct 14, 2023 20:26:00 GMT
Regarding the question about the number of tracks for The Works, here's a relevant excerpt from an interview in 1984 (note that it's an English-Japanese-English translation): Music Life: By the way, how many songs did you have for this album?
Roger: We had over 30. Not that they were all finished songs, but we picked the ones that we thought were the best. Anyway, there were a lot.Rest of the interview here: queenchat.boards.net/thread/1059/roger-john-works-promotional-japan?page=1&scrollTo=11045I wonder how many of those are from Strange Frontier and Mr Bad Guy.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Oct 14, 2023 20:58:17 GMT
Brenski, wasn't there an interview where Freddie stated that they had roughly 40 songs for The Works ? Now I HAVE TO find (for Brenski) the interview where I swear that Roger admitted himself that he had made a suggestion that Freddie maybe should use the songs that the band had been working on [during the Works recording sessions] for his solo album. sorry, but that last comment is (at best) diverting away from your original reply and completely irrelevant. you said Freddie said there were "roughly forty songs for the Works."
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