NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Apr 30, 2020 19:33:55 GMT
Sorry another debatable subject but I generally don't know who to say. Perhaps 10cc for early Queen up until approximately 1976?
More apologies if I've put this in the wrong category.
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Mooghead
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Post by Mooghead on Apr 30, 2020 20:21:32 GMT
Aerosmith?
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Post by angusscrimm on Apr 30, 2020 20:51:24 GMT
Is there really such a thing?
Is music an art or a competition?
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Apr 30, 2020 21:09:15 GMT
Queen by the time of sheer heart attack were real pioneers in commercial rock music and not only. They had better and new ideas than most of the other band like Deep purple 1974 line up, Thin Lizzy, The who, 10cc, Aerosmith, Alice Cooper and David Bowie. So I think they didn't give a dam. Queen had a goal to be successful as Led Zeppelin in US and be good composers. The only rivalry I have seen in 2005, it can be found In a interview (Q or MOJO) were Brian gave an example about Rolling Stones. It was about commercial success of Queen and Freddie the many years after his death.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Apr 30, 2020 21:12:43 GMT
During the 70s, I guess Abba would have rivalled them commercially. I still have a grudge from when Mamma Mia knocked Bohemian Rhapsody off the Number 1 slot!
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Post by angusscrimm on Apr 30, 2020 22:23:19 GMT
Yeah, bloody foreigners...coming over here, stealing our chart positions
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Apr 30, 2020 22:45:25 GMT
Yeah, bloody foreigners...coming over here, stealing our chart positions Quite! But the blonde one was nice. 😍🤪😄
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Post by angusscrimm on Apr 30, 2020 23:10:33 GMT
Yeah, bloody foreigners...coming over here, stealing our chart positions Quite! But the blonde one was nice. 😍🤪😄 Absolutely
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 1, 2020 1:52:17 GMT
Is there really such a thing? Is music an art or a competition? Sadly to a lot of people it's both. Some people just can't enjoy something without having it be at the expense of some enemy in their minds. How many Van Halen videos on YouTube descend into Sammy vs Dave arguments when people can just have different tastes or even like both?
But sometimes competition makes for good art. The Beatles vs the Beach Boys comes to mind, or more recently Oasis vs Blur.
Of course such things are often blown out of proportion by the media, sometimes at the request of record companies to generate publicity. But that's a whole other discussion.
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 1, 2020 2:14:54 GMT
They had better and new ideas than most of the other band like Deep purple 1974 line up, Thin Lizzy, The who, 10cc, Aerosmith, Alice Cooper and David Bowie. Millions will fight you to the death for putting Bowie in that group. Most of his catalog through Scary Monsters was revolutionary, and plenty would argue that Bowie was far more influential on rock music and popular culture as a whole than Queen.
In fact, it was the very act of Bowie normalizing androgyny that paved the way for a guy like Mercury to come out on stage in a skintight white onesie leotard singing "bring on the charge of the love brigade, there is spring in the air once again" to biker dudes in the American south who thought it was the greatest thing ever.
Bowie spent decades finding new and creative ways to explore the themes of alienation, and was an innovator right through his final release after his death. He had his dip in the 80s as well, but as a whole his catalog is arguably more consistent than Queen's. And this is coming from someone whose favourite band is Queen.
As for the others:
1974 Deep Purple - the baroque stylings of the title track on Burn rivals plenty of the genre exploration Queen did on their early albums.
The Who - they practically invented the notion of the modern rock concert. And Quadrophenia is easily on par with A Night At The Opera for quality and influence.
Alice Cooper - Welcome To My Nightmare is right up there with ANATO as well. It is a masterpiece.
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Post by angusscrimm on May 1, 2020 2:44:53 GMT
Is there really such a thing? Is music an art or a competition? Sadly to a lot of people it's both. Some people just can't enjoy something without having it be at the expense of some enemy in their minds. How many Van Halen videos on YouTube descend into Sammy vs Dave arguments when people can just have different tastes or even like both?
But sometimes competition makes for good art. The Beatles vs the Beach Boys comes to mind, or more recently Oasis vs Blur.
Of course such things are often blown out of proportion by the media, sometimes at the request of record companies to generate publicity. But that's a whole other discussion.
Good points well made RE Beach Boys and Beatles/ Oasis and Blur, but it is indeed sad that fans have to make it a "fight" between bands or, as you say, favourite lineups of a band. I'd like to think we're more rational here, and don't fall for the record company bullshit either.
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Post by angusscrimm on May 1, 2020 2:57:09 GMT
They had better and new ideas than most of the other band like Deep purple 1974 line up, Thin Lizzy, The who, 10cc, Aerosmith, Alice Cooper and David Bowie. Millions will fight you to the death for putting Bowie in that group. Most of his catalog through Scary Monsters was revolutionary, and plenty would argue that Bowie was far more influential on rock music and popular culture as a whole than Queen.
In fact, it was the very act of Bowie normalizing androgyny that paved the way for a guy like Mercury to come out on stage in a skintight white onesie leotard singing "bring on the charge of the love brigade, there is spring in the air once again" to biker dudes in the American south who thought it was the greatest thing ever.
Bowie spent decades finding new and creative ways to explore the themes of alienation, and was an innovator right through his final release after his death. He had his dip in the 80s as well, but as a whole his catalog is arguably more consistent than Queen's. And this is coming from someone whose favourite band is Queen.
As for the others:
1974 Deep Purple - the baroque stylings of the title track on Burn rivals plenty of the genre exploration Queen did on their early albums.
The Who - they practically invented the notion of the modern rock concert. And Quadrophenia is easily on par with A Night At The Opera for quality and influence.
Alice Cooper - Welcome To My Nightmare is right up there with ANATO as well. It is a masterpiece.
Absolutely. Bowie's early stuff was phenomenal. He was a pioneer, and I think his influence on Freddie is apparent. I still can't believe we're talking about him past tense. I'm not really into Purple or The Who, although I obviously respect their place in music history. RE Alice Cooper, I had never given Welcome To My Nightmare a spin. I have been indifferent regarding his music - he's just there - so I couldn't imagine any of his output matching Queen. BUT, you intrigued me with what I felt might be a bold comparison to ANATO, so I finally gave it a spin. Wow, I'm actually blown away. The opening/title track is amazing. I also love how Devil's Food and Black Widow merge, and that section from Vincent Price....just....wow. I also really liked Steven, but overall the album has a great feel and flow. The theme is rather disturbing, but it's a weirdly beautiful experience. Totally won over by one play lol. I really must add this to the collection. Cheers man
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 1, 2020 3:08:06 GMT
I'd like to think we're more rational here "Here" as in this forum, or in general ?
Most people may be good and principled, but they sure aren't rational. Thinking otherwise is setting yourself up for grave disappointment.
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 1, 2020 3:09:46 GMT
RE Alice Cooper, I had never given Welcome To My Nightmare a spin. I have been indifferent regarding his music - he's just there - so I couldn't imagine any of his output matching Queen. BUT, you intrigued me with what I felt might be a bold comparison to ANATO, so I finally gave it a spin. Wow, I'm actually blown away. The opening/title track is amazing. I also love how Devil's Food and Black Widow merge, and that section from Vincent Price....just....wow. I also really liked Steven, but overall the album has a great feel and flow. The theme is rather disturbing, but it's a weirdly beautiful experience. Totally won over by one play lol. I really must add this to the collection. Cheers man Welcome to the nightmare
Glad you dug it - it's one of the best rock albums ever.
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Post by angusscrimm on May 1, 2020 3:11:36 GMT
I'd like to think we're more rational here "Here" as in this forum, or in general ?
Most people may be good and principled, but they sure aren't rational. Thinking otherwise is setting yourself up for grave disappointment.
LOL - here, as in this forum
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Post by angusscrimm on May 1, 2020 4:00:01 GMT
This is brilliant
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2020 4:21:00 GMT
It's a great question because the answer says a lot about them and their audiences.
In their years as a consistently writing and recording act, they outlived several contemporaries (e.g. ABBA) and were original enough not to be easily pigeonholed and therefore willy nilly being put as someone else's rival; it's also worth mentioning that they had several commercial peaks (1975, 1977, 1980, 1985, 1991, 1995) and the public's clearly divided when it comes to their best creative moments.
The answer, is, therefore: they had different biggest rivals depending on the country, the audience and the year.
In the beginning, they were often compared to Led Zeppelin (same basic line-up) but Queen were more into the big harmonies and came a bit later so they were largely seen in those years as copycats. By the time Queen had forged a more unique identity, they were probably seen as Zeppelin's contemporaries rather than followers. Age-wise, it makes sense, as Frederick was a bit younger than James and John Paul, and both Brian and Frederick were a bit older than Robert and John Henry. There's a lot of overlap amongst Zeppelin fans in general and those who like Queen's early work. However, I don't see much of a rivalry when it comes to the albums they released more or less at the same time: Queen vs Houses of the Holy, either Sheer Heart Attack or A Night at the Opera vs Physical Graffiti, either Opera or Races vs Presence, either Jazz or The Game vs In Through the Out Door. It helped them that none of those records had a release coinciding with its counterpart, so there was no real competition in the context of, say, Blur's The Great Escape and Oasis' Morning Glory, which were released within three weeks of each other and had more or less the same target audience.
I agree that for stuff like 'Bohemian Rhapsody' or 'We Are the Champions', ABBA were the direct chart rivals in Britain, but stylistically there were plenty of differences so they weren't really targeting the same audiences, and then there are other territories and periods to take into consideration: I don't really think Queen II was competing against Waterloo or Flash Gordon against Super Trouper. From Hot Space onwards, moreover, there were no more ABBA albums anymore.
Football is another area where competition is seen rather often, and obviously hyped by the press: West Germany vs Netherlands (and, in the early 70's, Bayern Munich vs Ajax and Beckenbauer vs Cruyff) or France vs Italy, Brazil vs Argentina, Liverpool vs Everton, Real Madrid vs Barcelona, CR7 vs Messi, Pele vs Eusebio (in the early to mid 60's). I don't know if Queen really had that sort of a rival because, again, they lasted quite a while.
KISS and Aerosmith could be considered contemporaries in a more accurate sense as they were still actively recording long after the early 80's (therefore outliving the likes of ABBA and Zeppelin), but then again they had so many line-up changes (in KISS's case, particularly), extended hiatuses and lost weekends that their paths were far from parallel. Same for, say, Eagles, who took a decade and a half off, or Kansas, who started to fade commercially since Vinyl Confessions (which, incidentally, featured Roger Taylor as uncredited guest backing vocalist), released a couple of months after Hot Space, but the difference is Kansas never had a 'Ga Ga', a 'Break Free', a 'Magic' or a Live Aid to give them a new boost of popularity, and instead their later albums didn't do too well in the charts.
What Brian and Roger have been doing ever since that famous surprise gig in Amsterdam (was it 2002-ish?) and then with Paul and now with Adam, is being a nostalgia act playing old hits to new audiences. I don't mean that as a jab at them: it's a valid way to make a living and they're making thousands of people happy (including themselves, of course). In that sense, they're probably rivalling the likes of KISS (who were amidst their umpteenth farewell tour when the pandemic had to alter their plans dramatically) and McCartney (who does play newer material but the main bulk of his setlists is made up of stuff he and/or his Beatles colleagues penned over 50 years ago). Even when touring The Cosmos Rocks they were fully aware audiences had paid to hear 'Bohemian Rhapsody' and 'Radio Ga Ga' rather than 'C-lebrity' or 'Some Things That Glitter', and, again, there's nothing wrong with that.
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Mooghead
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Post by Mooghead on May 1, 2020 5:41:52 GMT
Yeah, bloody foreigners...coming over here, stealing our chart positions Quite! But the blonde one was nice. 😍🤪😄 Which one, Benny or Bjorn?
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on May 1, 2020 7:08:17 GMT
Sadly to a lot of people it's both. Some people just can't enjoy something without having it be at the expense of some enemy in their minds. How many Van Halen videos on YouTube descend into Sammy vs Dave arguments when people can just have different tastes or even like both?
But sometimes competition makes for good art. The Beatles vs the Beach Boys comes to mind, or more recently Oasis vs Blur. Of course such things are often blown out of proportion by the media, sometimes at the request of record companies to generate publicity. But that's a whole other discussion. i'd agree. generally, rivalry is a fan concept. as a "Sammy" fan it's obvious which i prefer, but the early VH stuff with DLR was really great too (musically) - if a little "obvious" lyric-wise. I think i prefer the Van Hagar stuff because it sounds more mature (musically). however, - in a much similar way to professional sport - there are some "local rivalries". Oasis/Blur counts as an example. Beatles vs Stones was never really a thing, from the bands' own perspectives. However, the press like to "get a soundbite" from time-to-time, only last week the Beatles/Stones thing was raised again. As regards the Beach Boys, the rivalry was not "success oriented". moreover, i'd say it was about innovation. isn't there a quote somewhere (Macca?) about the Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds" really inspiring the Beatles to expand their horizons? McCartney later paid a non-too-little tribute to the Beach Boys with "Back In The USSR".
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 1, 2020 9:58:15 GMT
the public's clearly divided when it comes to their best creative moments. They shouldn't be. Queen's creative peak is the four solid albums produced between 1974-76, with occasional later moments of excellence mostly found on the Greatest Hits albums. That's pretty well it in one sentence.
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 1, 2020 10:03:09 GMT
As regards the Beach Boys, the rivalry was not "success oriented". moreover, i'd say it was about innovation. isn't there a quote somewhere (Macca?) about the Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds" really inspiring the Beatles to expand their horizons? McCartney later paid a non-too-little tribute to the Beach Boys with "Back In The USSR". Indeed. The Beatles and the Beach Boys went back and forth influencing one another between 1965-68. Healthy competition creates great art.
The Kinks were kind of in the mix too, although Ray Davies bowed out in '67 after he declared he hadn't listened to Sgt Pepper since he'd already put out the best song of the year, in his words (Waterloo Sunset). Depending on the day, sometimes I agree with him.
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Post by angusscrimm on May 1, 2020 10:28:52 GMT
the public's clearly divided when it comes to their best creative moments. They shouldn't be. Queen's creative peak is the four solid albums produced between 1974-76, with occasional later moments of excellence mostly found on the Greatest Hits albums. That's pretty well it in one sentence.
You should not of be here if your goin diss Queen. Call yourself a Queen fan, but your just been rediculous sayin they only had just moments of excellence. Freddie is a rock god n a real tour de force, majestic in his pomp. All of Queens albums are better than the one before, even Hot Space and even their worst song even though they didnt have a worster song is much better than anything Lameburd can do now. Why dont you stop been a hypocrite and just bugger off to a Led Zeppelin site and stop been so much up Mays arse.
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 1, 2020 10:37:52 GMT
They shouldn't be. Queen's creative peak is the four solid albums produced between 1974-76, with occasional later moments of excellence mostly found on the Greatest Hits albums. That's pretty well it in one sentence.
You should not of be here if your goin diss Queen. Call yourself a Queen fan, but your just been rediculous sayin they only had just moments of excellence. Freddie is a rock god n a real tour de force, majestic in his pomp. All of Queens albums are better than the one before, even Hot Space and even their worst song even though they didnt have a worster song is much better than anything Lameburd can do now. Why dont you stop been a hypocrite and just bugger off to a Led Zeppelin site and stop been so much up Mays arse. You used too much punctuation. It lacked authenticity.
B+ for effort.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on May 1, 2020 10:40:55 GMT
Indeed. The Beatles and the Beach Boys went back and forth influencing one another between 1965-68. Healthy competition creates great art. The Kinks were kind of in the mix too, although Ray Davies bowed out in '67 after he declared he hadn't listened to Sgt Pepper since he'd already put out the best song of the year, in his words (Waterloo Sunset). Depending on the day, sometimes I agree with him. depending on the day, i'd argue with Mr Davies that the best song of 1967 was Small Faces' "Itchycoo Park". You should not of be here if your goin diss Queen. Call yourself a Queen fan, but your just been rediculous sayin they only had just moments of excellence. Freddie is a rock god n a real tour de force, majestic in his pomp. All of Queens albums are better than the one before, even Hot Space and even their worst song even though they didnt have a worster song is much better than anything Lameburd can do now. Why dont you stop been a hypocrite and just bugger off to a Led Zeppelin site and stop been so much up Mays arse. haha, nice to have a Gezzonator onboard (albeit) temporarily.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on May 1, 2020 10:41:34 GMT
They shouldn't be. Queen's creative peak is the four solid albums produced between 1974-76, with occasional later moments of excellence mostly found on the Greatest Hits albums. That's pretty well it in one sentence.
You should not of be here if your goin diss Queen. Call yourself a Queen fan, but your just been rediculous sayin they only had just moments of excellence. Freddie is a rock god n a real tour de force, majestic in his pomp. All of Queens albums are better than the one before, even Hot Space and even their worst song even though they didnt have a worster song is much better than anything Lameburd can do now. Why dont you stop been a hypocrite and just bugger off to a Led Zeppelin site and stop been so much up Mays arse. ...and it was all going so well. 🙄 People are entitled to their own opinions. Don't make it personal if someone says something you disagree with.
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 1, 2020 10:44:30 GMT
You should not of be here if your goin diss Queen. Call yourself a Queen fan, but your just been rediculous sayin they only had just moments of excellence. Freddie is a rock god n a real tour de force, majestic in his pomp. All of Queens albums are better than the one before, even Hot Space and even their worst song even though they didnt have a worster song is much better than anything Lameburd can do now. Why dont you stop been a hypocrite and just bugger off to a Led Zeppelin site and stop been so much up Mays arse. ...and it was all going so well. 🙄 People are entitled to their own opinions. Don't make it personal if someone says something you disagree with.
Breathe
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Post by angusscrimm on May 1, 2020 11:31:11 GMT
@therealwizard Maybe it was more authentic than you thought Sorry LF, I was just ripping the proverbial. It won't happen again. Maybe
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moonie
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Post by moonie on May 1, 2020 11:44:14 GMT
@therealwizard Maybe it was more authentic than you thought Sorry LF, I was just ripping the proverbial. It won't happen again. Maybe Hehehe. Spot on. You had me fooled for a minute mate. I thought 'you know who' had found a way to change his IP Address..
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on May 1, 2020 11:47:30 GMT
@therealwizard Maybe it was more authentic than you thought Sorry LF, I was just ripping the proverbial. It won't happen again. Maybe Thought we'd gone back in time for a minute! 🙂
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on May 1, 2020 14:52:51 GMT
About Queen and David Bowie, Freddie said that they were in that glam wave before Bowie, but they were an underground band, also they worried about the delay of their first album. There is a video where he also said something about Bowie in 1976-77. Musically in my opinion Queen II up to ADATR undo Bowie, who was great.
About Alice Cooper yes WTNM is a very good album,(Steven is my favourite song), but in my ears the sound production is not as good as Queen. Also the ideas of Queen are more complex and different not a cliché.
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