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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 7:15:27 GMT
Hi everyone! Thoughr I'd create this thread, because I'm eager for your opinions on their 1978 album. I think every single song is great and innovative, except for Fun It and More Of That Jazz. I think they're the worst songs Roger's ever written. Without these 2 albumfillers Jazz would be one of my favourites. I still think it's great, but when Roger left his cupboard for the second time, he should have left these 2 songs in it.
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Post by martinpacker on Sept 25, 2020 8:44:05 GMT
Funnily enough I like Fun It and More Of That Jazz. In the latter case especially because of the snippets of the other songs.
I was disappointed in this album when it came out. I think in retrospect it was because of the Production. It sounds muddy and there were few of the "and the kitchen sink" touches I wanted from Queen.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 25, 2020 8:49:53 GMT
I really like Fun It. It's Queen's first real venture (to paraphrase Freddie) "in the funk, black category". And it was actually in keeping with the dance trends of the time - rather than "missing the bus completely", like The Game and Hot Space. Fun It feels like a stylistic extension/progression of his solo single B-side Turn On The TV from the year before (while at the same time feeling very much part of a Drowse Family. Very much the same feel. I like some of the clever little effects added to Fun It, for example "police whistle", "car horn" and that weird "warbling whoosh" (i'm sure it has a proper name) all conjure up an image of New York 1970s. A very similar vibe to David Bowie's Fame. For me, the only bad thing about this song is it's placement on the LP. It would've been better placed in this kind of running order: Let Me Entertain You ♦ Fun It ♦ Fat Bottomed Girls
As for More Of That Jazz, I like it almost as much as Fun It, and it's certainly [IMO] a long way from the worst on the LP. More Of That Jazz (for me) is part of a Drowse Trilogy (Fight From The Inside being the other), and works really well when viewed in that respect.
One additional point: The two tunes you mention are very typical of Roger's late 70s "gritty/dirty" song-writing style. Some of his 70s ideas were expanded upon with his solo/Cross 80s/90s output. For example, smaller things like: The More Of That Jazz "album sample medley" closer being revisited in Shove It.
Those honour for "worst Jazz cuts" surely belong firmly to Leaving Home Ain't Easy and In Only Seven Days. Now those are poor tunes.
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Post by martinpacker on Sept 25, 2020 8:52:14 GMT
The self-reference of "More Of That Jazz", with the snippets of other songs and the line "No More Of That Jazz" at the end of the album is particularly nice.
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Post by peacelovingguy on Sept 25, 2020 8:58:39 GMT
I love the album, but hate John’s songs. Detest both of them, but In Only Seven Days is possibly my most hated Queen song. (I love pretty much every other thing John wrote). Other than the dreadful mixtape ruination, More of That Jazz is one truly great down and dirty rock song.
I get why people find the album divisive, but it’s so daring in its own way. It’s a clever mix of classic rock and some type of neo/alternative pop/rock. There’s a certain jaded cynicism permeating the album which I think rubs some fans up the wrong way, but I like it. If you’ve ever heard “This is the new shit” by Marilyn Manson, it sounds just like it should be on Jazz.
Criticisms of the production are blown out of huge proportion. All the singles sound fantastic to my ears. I only really have audio issues with If you can’t beat them and Dead on time, but the latter is a good song and the former mediocre.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 25, 2020 9:02:57 GMT
Must admit, it's probably 30 years since I've played the album in full. I do remember getting it and being blown away by the power of Mustapha, and, production wise, it didn't seem bad at the time, but it has certainly not aged well. I think my main disappointment at the time was that it had no long songs on it. Fun It was definitely my least favourite song, but the rest of the album was actually quite strong. I was 14 when it came out, and I remember spending quite a bit of time studying the fold out poster. ☺
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Post by martinpacker on Sept 25, 2020 9:05:35 GMT
I consider Mustapha as a "F*** You" opener. And rather like it for that.
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Post by peacelovingguy on Sept 25, 2020 9:15:23 GMT
I consider Mustapha as a "F*** You" opener. And rather like it for that. I think Mustapha should’ve been the third (fourth?) single, but I guess after the tepid reaction to Don’t Stop Now they just wanted to move on from the album. I think Don’t Stop Me Now’s rise to uber classic super famousness just goes to show Freddie was right in 1978 and everyone else was wrong. Even Brian has given up not playing it!
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 25, 2020 10:47:38 GMT
I think my main disappointment at the time was that it had no long songs on it... I was 14 when it came out, and I remember spending quite a bit of time studying the fold out poster. ☺ i always considered it Queen's Rubber Soul - A dozen+ 3-4 minute catchy, snappy songs. Of course, Rubber Soul didn't include any "dancing with yourself" artwork.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Sept 25, 2020 11:01:21 GMT
Τhe bad production due to engineering problems make the album loose much of its magic.
In only seven days is the worst song while it has very good vocals.
For me it is their white album, Mustapha probably is the first middle east rock song, Bicycle Race has new and old elements like TFFMS same chords. Dead on time is similar with Keep yourself alive, Let me entertain you has beautiful construction and power. If you can't beat them great guitar, if the proction was better it, would sound like a new wave influenced song. Dreamers balls classic Brian May orchestration like Good Company. Jealousy same acoustic guitar sound like White Queen and very beautiful ballad. Fun is a good song, it needed a guitar intro like they did during in 1979 during Fun it snippet before Keep yourself alive. Leaving home is very Beatles influenced, but the bad production makes it average.
I think their choice to use RTB was good for commercial reasons, Queen after NOTW success collaborated with their producer of ANATO ect.
But they didn't have Mike Stone and Roy's team wasn't good enough.
A very good album as I said for me is their White Album.
P.S. Jazz refers to wierd craziness thus the defferent songs and song list.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 25, 2020 12:54:25 GMT
I think my main disappointment at the time was that it had no long songs on it... I was 14 when it came out, and I remember spending quite a bit of time studying the fold out poster. ☺ i always considered it Queen's Rubber Soul - A dozen+ 3-4 minute catchy, snappy songs. Of course, Rubber Soul didn't include any "dancing with yourself" artwork. I'll have to take your word for that. I'm afraid I couldn't name a single track off of Rubber Soul, although I would probably know some of them.
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Post by martinpacker on Sept 25, 2020 13:30:36 GMT
Could it be - with two new-to-them studios - they were feeling their way, productionwise?
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 25, 2020 13:34:25 GMT
i always considered it Queen's Rubber Soul - A dozen+ 3-4 minute catchy, snappy songs. Of course, Rubber Soul didn't include any "dancing with yourself" artwork. I'll have to take your word for that. I'm afraid I couldn't name a single track off of Rubber Soul, although I would probably know some of them. it's my second favourite Beatles LP (after Abbey Road) Side 1: Drive My Car ♦ Norwegian Wood ♦ You Won't See Me ♦ Nowhere Man ♦ Think for Yourself ♦ The Word ♦ Michelle Side 2: What Goes On ♦ Girl ♦ I'm Looking Through You ♦ In My Life ♦ Wait ♦ If I Needed Someone ♦ Run for Your Life
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Post by macduff77 on Sept 25, 2020 15:33:07 GMT
I like Jazz.
Although the sound feels hollow on the album, it still has some great tunes and a bit of the Queen experimentation on it that I like. There's a couple of weaker tracks on there, maybe a bit more than some of the others, but overall not their worst effort. It's one of their albums I put on when I want something 'different' and can still enjoy the overall experience of the album. I really wish 'Don't Stop Me Now' was a bigger smash at the time, but it's going to be known as one of those tracks that has just grown and grown over time.
On a side note, I once read a thread over on Steve Hoffman Forums that the word "Jazz" was really a UK slang term indicating "sex" references (ie, adult magazines, etc). Thinking that through, many of the songs and lyrics suddenly take on a change to me, haha. Although, I grew up in Scotland, I don't ever recall hearing or using that word in that context.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 25, 2020 17:15:11 GMT
I'll have to take your word for that. I'm afraid I couldn't name a single track off of Rubber Soul, although I would probably know some of them. it's my second favourite Beatles LP (after Abbey Road) Side 1: Drive My Car ♦ Norwegian Wood ♦ You Won't See Me ♦ Nowhere Man ♦ Think for Yourself ♦ The Word ♦ Michelle Side 2: What Goes On ♦ Girl ♦ I'm Looking Through You ♦ In My Life ♦ Wait ♦ If I Needed Someone ♦ Run for Your Life Yeah. I'm afraid nothing is going to convince me to become a Beatles fan. 😉🙂
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 17:32:47 GMT
I think it's well-written, well-sung and well-played, but not too well-produced and that hurts it a lot, especially compared to other albums.
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pg
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Post by pg on Sept 25, 2020 18:50:02 GMT
I like a greater proportion of the songs on Jazz than any other Queen album.
So while I like Queen 2 as a piece of work , if I'm picking songs there'll be more Jazz ones.
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NathanH
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Post by NathanH on Sept 25, 2020 19:50:14 GMT
This is probably my least favourite Queen album from the 70s. Even the band hated it (well three of them did). I don't detest Fun It as a lot of people do but More Of That Jazz I hate. I don't seem to be too fond of Let Me Entertain You neither album or live versions. A song I never used to like but can tolerate now is Dead On Time. I love If You Can't Beat Them even though it's badly produced, live is even better. Fat Bottomed Girls is my other top favourite and there are a couple of things I'd have done differently if I was producing the song (including extending the jam at the end but shortening the guitar intro after the vocal only start like the single version).
Compared to A Day At The Races' production, Jazz sounds crap. I think the only song that doesn't is Don't Stop Me Now.
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Post by staysweet on Sept 25, 2020 22:12:37 GMT
I like Jazz, but I do think the sound is subpar compared to the previous albums. I don’t feel like there are any real duds on the album, but probably In Only Seven Days and More of That Jazz are my least favorites. I think In Only Seven Days is kind of a sweet sounding song, and if you’ve ever had one of those vacation relationships it is a nice reminder. But not really a strong song in and of itself.
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vh
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Post by vh on Sept 25, 2020 23:14:50 GMT
Jazz has a lot of energy particularly Roger's playing, but the production is at best strange. It certainly lacks the depth and warmth of ADATR and the earthiness and presence of NOTW.
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flem
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Post by flem on Sept 26, 2020 0:02:44 GMT
I love this album for all of the different styles of song's, just what Queen are about. It's the album that I probably put on the most. Those Roger songs are just typical of him, they add to the album's diversity. In my opinion, it's a typically we'll thought out Queen album. The band knew what they were doing, they didn't just put out any shite.
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CoolCat
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Post by CoolCat on Sept 26, 2020 8:38:50 GMT
I‘m not very fond of Roger‘s songs, but Fun It is a really good one. It has a certain groove and energy that is perfectly described by the lyrics. Apart from DSMN my favorite song on the album.
Another gem in my opinion is Dreamer‘s Ball. At first I was sure that it’s one of Freddie’s songs, but was surprised when I found out it was written by Brian. It‘s actually a sad song but Freddie was still able to put joy and positivity in it. It‘s another great example of his singing abilities.
Apart from those and Fat Bottomed Girls, I very rarely listen to the other songs.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Sept 26, 2020 17:11:54 GMT
I like Jazz. Although the sound feels hollow on the album, it still has some great tunes and a bit of the Queen experimentation on it that I like. There's a couple of weaker tracks on there, maybe a bit more than some of the others, but overall not their worst effort. It's one of their albums I put on when I want something 'different' and can still enjoy the overall experience of the album. I really wish 'Don't Stop Me Now' was a bigger smash at the time, but it's going to be known as one of those tracks that has just grown and grown over time. On a side note, I once read a thread over on Steve Hoffman Forums that the word "Jazz" was really a UK slang term indicating "sex" references (ie, adult magazines, etc). Thinking that through, many of the songs and lyrics suddenly take on a change to me, haha. Although, I grew up in Scotland, I don't ever recall hearing or using that word in that context. It's been speculated that "jazz" derives from the slang word "jasm," which basically means spirit or energy. But it's also been associated as a sex reference...semen, actually. As for the album itself, it's a favorite, actually. The songs are really good, but they could have trimmed it down some, and done a better job with production. Someone else here said they can't hear the difference, or think it's not that bad...but honestly, the part that always sticks out as God awful would be the percussion. Not as bad as Trident's drum sound on the first album though. But still, when comparing it to News of the World, it's a leap backwards.
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Post by peacelovingguy on Sept 27, 2020 3:12:11 GMT
Regarding the title, yes it’s sex, and definitely of the vacuous, masturbatory type, such as calling porno mags “Jazz mags”. It’s sex (music) that conceives nothing. This kind of double entendre and humorous multilayered meanings is so brilliantly done in Queen, especially Freddie, but not just Freddie. For those of you who don’t know, “The Game” is slang for prostitution in Britain.
The obvious, best example of multiple meanings is Killer Queen, which is simultaneously a heterosexual song about about a sexy call girl, a gay song about Freddie being a sexy boy, and a song about Queen, the band, being kick ass killer.
I love the decadent tone of Jazz, (the album), and it is decadent, in the sense of some kind of noted jaded decline in the band. It’s a very clever album, conceptually, but as I said above, I get why many fans don’t “get it” and I respect that. But I’d defend it. The key themes, of sex, drugs and rock n roll being transactional, about the $$$, is always there in Queen, especially Freddie, this extraordinary confluence of selling out to make money, being “a musical prostitute”, making disposable records, but ending up making great art and great songs. This theme, you can see it across key thematic songs on the album: Fat Bottomed Girls, Bicycle Race, Don’t stop me now, Let me entertain you and More of that Jazz. They’re songs about “pedalling” ($$$) or songs about “riding” (f***king). Look at the line “I can show you some good merchandise”, simultaneously about “selling” drugs, sex, music and literally band merch. The album is very cynical, and conceptually repetitious, things going round and round and round, stuck in repetitive, infinite loops of music (product), trapped in concentric circles etc. Look at the lyrics to No More of that Jazz, they’re biting. Is it about the band or the fans or both? Does it sound vaguely fascist, being commanded to do something, paid to do something? To listen or create or paid to f***?
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Post by peacelovingguy on Sept 27, 2020 3:29:32 GMT
I’d also say, some Queen albums are conceptually “interesting”, and some aren’t. I don’t refer to the musical quality of the album, but some underpinning thematic/musical noteworthyness. . I’d day the interesting ones are Queen 2, Sheer Heart Attack, A Night at the Opera, Jazz and Innuendo.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Sept 27, 2020 15:56:00 GMT
Regarding the title, yes it’s sex, and definitely of the vacuous, masturbatory type, such as calling porno mags “Jazz mags”. It’s sex (music) that conceives nothing. This kind of double entendre and humorous multilayered meanings is so brilliantly done in Queen, especially Freddie, but not just Freddie. For those of you who don’t know, “The Game” is slang for prostitution in Britain. I never knew that slang term (I'm from America). Thanks for enlightening me. It's interesting that you suggest the title of the album has double meaning. Because does that mean Play The Game isn't about love? If memory serves, the album was going to be called 'Play The Game', but the band decided to shorten it for simplicity. Nothing about prostitution, as far as I'm aware. I guess my point is, I hear nothing that alludes to prostitution in the song or elsewhere on the album. Do you have any quotes from Freddie or anyone else? Just curious.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Sept 27, 2020 15:58:29 GMT
The obvious, best example of multiple meanings is Killer Queen, which is simultaneously a heterosexual song about about a sexy call girl, a gay song about Freddie being a sexy boy, and a song about Queen, the band, being kick ass killer. I love the decadent tone of Jazz, (the album), and it is decadent, in the sense of some kind of noted jaded decline in the band. It’s a very clever album, conceptually, but as I said above, I get why many fans don’t “get it” and I respect that. But I’d defend it. The key themes, of sex, drugs and rock n roll being transactional, about the $$$, is always there in Queen, especially Freddie, this extraordinary confluence of selling out to make money, being “a musical prostitute”, making disposable records, but ending up making great art and great songs. This theme, you can see it across key thematic songs on the album: Fat Bottomed Girls, Bicycle Race, Don’t stop me now, Let me entertain you and More of that Jazz. They’re songs about “pedalling” ($$$) or songs about “riding” (f***king). Look at the line “I can show you some good merchandise”, simultaneously about “selling” drugs, sex, music and literally band merch. The album is very cynical, and conceptually repetitious, things going round and round and round, stuck in repetitive, infinite loops of music (product), trapped in concentric circles etc. Look at the lyrics to No More of that Jazz, they’re biting. Is it about the band or the fans or both? Does it sound vaguely fascist, being commanded to do something, paid to do something? To listen or create or paid to f***? I have to agree with you on Jazz. The theme, though a loose one, is definitely present on the album. I wonder how much of this was by accident or by design. The way I look at is the album reflects where the band were emotionally at the time. Beyond that, I doubt there was much more thought going into it.
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billy
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Post by billy on Sept 27, 2020 19:13:46 GMT
Regarding the title, yes it’s sex, and definitely of the vacuous, masturbatory type, such as calling porno mags “Jazz mags”. It’s sex (music) that conceives nothing. This kind of double entendre and humorous multilayered meanings is so brilliantly done in Queen, especially Freddie, but not just Freddie. For those of you who don’t know, “The Game” is slang for prostitution in Britain. I never knew that slang term (I'm from America). Thanks for enlightening me. It's interesting that you suggest the title of the album has double meaning. Because does that mean Play The Game isn't about love? If memory serves, the album was going to be called 'Play The Game', but the band decided to shorten it for simplicity. Nothing about prostitution, as far as I'm aware. I guess my point is, I hear nothing that alludes to prostitution in the song or elsewhere on the album. Do you have any quotes from Freddie or anyone else? Just curious. I didn’t know that slang term either (I’m also American). I recall a radio interview with Roger where it was suggested the album was going to be called “Play the Game” but he said something to the effect that he vetoed it because there was no way that he wanted the suggestion to “play the game and go along with the system” to be inferred from the title. It was probably on Rockline (or an episode of Innerview or Off the Record).
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Post by staysweet on Sept 27, 2020 19:24:58 GMT
Regarding the title, yes it’s sex, and definitely of the vacuous, masturbatory type, such as calling porno mags “Jazz mags”. It’s sex (music) that conceives nothing. This kind of double entendre and humorous multilayered meanings is so brilliantly done in Queen, especially Freddie, but not just Freddie. For those of you who don’t know, “The Game” is slang for prostitution in Britain. Wow...not where I was expecting this discussion to go...😳
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 28, 2020 2:13:11 GMT
Sonically it's a major step below their previous few albums. It's mostly the drum sound that has it sounding flat. Musically it has its moments, but it's the first album where they start to lose their direction. Apart from Dreamers Ball and Fun It, the blending with other genres is no longer a cornerstone of their sound. And lyrically they're just nowhere near where they were a few years earlier. There are a half dozen solid tracks on Jazz, but given the choice between this and their 1974-76 output, there's no question where their creative peak was. With punk and disco happening (not to mention their singer heading into a dangerous netherworld of hedonism), they were a bit lost and Jazz was ultimately a miss. They'd do better with The Game, but apart from their hits they'd be largely out in the weeds creatively for the next decade.
Bottom line - if Queen broke up in the summer of 1978 for whatever reason, they'd still go down as one of the top ten rock bands ever. Little of what they did after that can change that, for better or worse. Those first six albums still stand the test of time.
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