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Post by deathtoming on Apr 11, 2020 18:52:47 GMT
Reading up on the cover shoot for Live Killers recently made me want to revisit the album, which is by far my least played.
I have the vinyl, but I'm only interested in CDs at the moment. Do I spend roughly $50 to get the Mew remastered (2001) version to replace my 1991 Hollywood CDs? Is it a significant upgrade? Or do I wait it out for the long-rumoured updated edition, perhaps until 2029 for the 50th anniversary?
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cmi
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Post by cmi on Apr 11, 2020 19:05:31 GMT
What is the read about cover shoot for LK?
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Mooghead
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Post by Mooghead on Apr 11, 2020 19:28:00 GMT
Funny you say its your least played, LK and Flash are the only 2 Queen albums I have never actually owned an original copy of, I only ever had tapes of them after borrowing the cd's from the library decades ago and havent listened to either for just as long.
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Chinwonder2
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Post by Chinwonder2 on Apr 11, 2020 19:35:47 GMT
Maybe this? " As documented on the excellent Queenlive.ca website, this photo by Koh Hasebe was taken at one of the Japanese shows at about the exact time as the Live Killers front cover shot. The picture of Brian, which was incorporated into the cover image, features in his Queen In 3D book on page 136. John’s hat, barely discernible on the album cover, is clearly visible here." " As evidenced on the excellent Queenlive.ca website and in Brian’s Queen In 3D book, the stunning front cover photograph is from one of the Japanese shows, subsequently manipulated to incorporate Brian into the shot." diogenescommunications.co.uk/queen-live-killers-forty-ish-years-on#easy-footnote-7-246-Chin
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Post by deathtoming on Apr 11, 2020 19:49:45 GMT
What is the read about cover shoot for LK? In the "Books" section of this discussion forum, I posted a translation of an interview with the photographer: queenchat.boards.net/thread/101/queen-japan-book-photographer-interviewI also came across a Japanese site where the writer said that the video of the concert shows that Brian was bowing during at the moment the group shot was taken, and that Brian was holding a John Birch guitar and not the Red Special. Here's an alternate shot, so Brian must have bowed very quickly or the group must have held their pose for a while, if this writer is correct. [edit: the alternate photo was posted already above so I've removed it from this post] Also, in the Queen in 3D book, there's the photo of Brian by himself that was used for the finished cover. I read that for the first time yesterday because the 3D stuff gives me headaches so I had that book set aside.
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Post by deathtoming on Apr 11, 2020 20:11:23 GMT
Funny you say its your least played, LK and Flash are the only 2 Queen albums I have never actually owned an original copy of, I only ever had tapes of them after borrowing the cd's from the library decades ago and havent listened to either for just as long. Flash Gordon is definitely not my go to album, but I guess I like it enough to inspire my Queenzone/Queenchat name and avatar. Also, The Hero is one of my favourite songs and I think it's very underrated. I sometimes just listen to that, and the Early Version bonus tracks of The Kiss and Football Fight.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Apr 11, 2020 20:45:26 GMT
I was trying to find the best complete live version of Now I'm Here recently, and dug out LK after many a year gathering dust. Have to say, NIH in particular sounded bloody awful, with lots of unwanted distortion. This was the original CD, but I've not had a chance to research different version / masters as yet.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Apr 11, 2020 21:37:29 GMT
also, LK was the audio testament that Freddie struggled with Don't Stop Me Now, live. out of so many sources, they couldn't find one that didn't sound like he was unable to sing at that tempo - without sounding drunk?
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Post by mrbadguy46 on Apr 11, 2020 21:40:17 GMT
Hey, I've uploaded a few snippets of my CD rip so you can compare it for yourself. It's the 2001 remaster from the De Agostini release. we.tl/t-5PcPGcRBLF
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Post by deathtoming on Apr 12, 2020 0:09:39 GMT
Hey, I've uploaded a few snippets of my CD rip so you can compare it for yourself. It's the 2001 remaster from the De Agostini release. we.tl/t-5PcPGcRBLFHey, thanks for this! I was only able to use my laptop speakers for a comparison and not my usual full setup, but I could still tell that Freddie's vocals sound better in the 2001 remaster. The 1991 version's vocals sound like a slightly deteriorated second generation copy in comparison. Couldn't really notice a difference with the instruments, though, but maybe it would be more apparent on my stereo system.
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Post by deathtoming on Apr 12, 2020 2:07:06 GMT
And here's that video footage the Japanese writer was talking about, with Brian bowing while the other three posed. The photographer, Koh Hasebe, said that the group would forget to come to the front of the stage for the photo on the other nights, so this must be the moment that produced the Live Killers cover (the video will start at the 7m52s mark with a closeup, but the moment itself comes 2-3 seconds later, zoomed out):
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 12, 2020 3:20:09 GMT
What is the read about cover shoot for LK? In the "Books" section of this discussion forum, I posted a translation of an interview with the photographer: queenchat.boards.net/thread/101/queen-japan-book-photographer-interviewI also came across a Japanese site where the writer said that the video of the concert shows that Brian was bowing during at the moment the group shot was taken, and that Brian was holding a John Birch guitar and not the Red Special. Here's an alternate shot, so Brian must have bowed very quickly or the group must have held their pose for a while, if this writer is correct. [edit: the alternate photo was posted already above so I've removed it from this post] Also, in the Queen in 3D book, there's the photo of Brian by himself that was used for the finished cover. I read that for the first time yesterday because the 3D stuff gives me headaches so I had that book set aside. Great stuff - looks like it was taken just a few seconds later.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 12, 2020 3:20:39 GMT
I was trying to find the best complete live version of Now I'm Here recently, and dug out LK after many a year gathering dust. Have to say, NIH in particular sounded bloody awful, with lots of unwanted distortion. This was the original CD, but I've not had a chance to research different version / masters as yet. The version from the Kampuchea compilation LP is probably your best bet then.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 12, 2020 3:31:32 GMT
And here's that video footage the Japanese writer was talking about, with Brian bowing while the other three posed. The photographer, Koh Hasebe, said that the group would forget to come to the front of the stage for the photo on the other nights, so this must be the moment that produced the Live Killers cover (the video will start at the 7m46s mark): That can't be it, as Roger is still on the drums. The photo was taken while they're taking their bows.
Mercury spreading out his arms at the end of Champions is a thing they did every night during that period. The Live Killers cover photo was probably a thing where they posed like this during GSTQ for a few nights in hopes of getting that perfect shot. Typically they just said their thank yous in a less choreographed manner.
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Post by deathtoming on Apr 12, 2020 5:21:15 GMT
And here's that video footage the Japanese writer was talking about, with Brian bowing while the other three posed. The photographer, Koh Hasebe, said that the group would forget to come to the front of the stage for the photo on the other nights, so this must be the moment that produced the Live Killers cover (the video will start at the 7m46s mark): That can't be it, as Roger is still on the drums. The photo was taken while they're taking their bows.
Mercury spreading out his arms at the end of Champions is a thing they did every night during that period. The Live Killers cover photo was probably a thing where they posed like this during GSTQ for a few nights in hopes of getting that perfect shot. Typically they just said their thank yous in a less choreographed manner.
I started the video at 7m 46s just for a bit of context, not to highlight the exact moment. The moment itself is probably somewhere around the 7m 56s mark, soon after the closeup shot changes to the far away shot. You can clearly see Brian bowing, and Roger next to him raising his arms, so he's not on the drum kit. You can also see the four of them walk off the stage right after. Here's the poor-quality screen shot of somewhere very close to that moment. John is obvious, the darkest figure here towards the left, stepping back. Freddie is at the front, in the middle with one arm raised, with Roger looking shirtless with one arm up. The dark blob to the right of them is Brian, about to stand upright from his bow. But again, watching the video from the 7m 54s mark will make it more obvious that the four are there. It also matches up with what the photographer was saying: that he only got the shot on the third try (and this video is from the third night at the Budokan), when the band members remembered to line up at the front to wave at the audience because they forgot to on other nights. There's clearly an effort to "pose" here, albeit quite brief. Same video, but with the start time closer to the "moment" for clarity:
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cmi
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Post by cmi on Apr 12, 2020 5:53:41 GMT
Yes, Roger is at the front of the stage during these last several seconds of the video. It seems this far away shot was actually taken from a minute later (during GSTQ) in the show but was editied in to the very end of WATC. Just noticed that John was in a hat on his head in the video as on the LK sleeve. I don't think he put it on every night in Tokyo.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 12, 2020 7:17:01 GMT
That can't be it, as Roger is still on the drums. The photo was taken while they're taking their bows.
Mercury spreading out his arms at the end of Champions is a thing they did every night during that period. The Live Killers cover photo was probably a thing where they posed like this during GSTQ for a few nights in hopes of getting that perfect shot. Typically they just said their thank yous in a less choreographed manner.
I started the video at 7m 46s just for a bit of context, not to highlight the exact moment. The moment itself is probably somewhere around the 7m 56s mark, soon after the closeup shot changes to the far away shot. You can clearly see Brian bowing, and Roger next to him raising his arms, so he's not on the drum kit. You can also see the four of them walk off the stage right after. Here's the poor-quality screen shot of somewhere very close to that moment. John is obvious, the darkest figure here towards the left, stepping back. Freddie is at the front, in the middle with one arm raised, with Roger looking shirtless with one arm up. The dark blob to the right of them is Brian, about to stand upright from his bow. But again, watching the video from the 7m 54s mark will make it more obvious that the four are there. It also matches up with what the photographer was saying: that he only got the shot on the third try (and this video is from the third night at the Budokan), when the band members remembered to line up at the front to wave at the audience because they forgot to on other nights. There's clearly an effort to "pose" here, albeit quite brief. Same video, but with the start time closer to the "moment" for clarity: Wow - good eye. Now I'm convinced.
That said, the final photo was a composite of two shots. In his Queen in 3D book, Brian May included the photo of him that was blended in to the main shot (although he doesn't elaborate on that part). I mirrored the one on the right so it's clear that it's more like the Live Killers shot, but the one on the left is the correct one as it happened, as they would always walk to stage right (which is left to the audience) when they exited the stage:
It looks like it's horizontally stretched in the book, so here's how it looks in the artwork (or maybe it was squished after the fact, although he was a "skinny lad" back then):
They even edited out his cable perfectly, not to mention the difference in the lights between this shot and the final shot - an impressive bit of (not) Photoshopping for the time period.
Now here's a photo taken a split second before or after the one we all know and love:
But it can't be from the 25th, as Mercury is in his silver lurex suit (the red one he wore on the 25th is a helluva lot shorter). Based on the explanation from the photographer (who could've easily been present on April 13 and/or 14 as well), I'd say this shot is from the 24th. Here he is wearing silver the night before:
And thus the final result is a perfect composite shot from two different nights. Dare I say the amount of overdubbing is a bit more understandable when we see the effort they underwent for the cover alone !?
Nice to have this little mystery solved.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 12, 2020 7:35:16 GMT
Just noticed that John was in ф hat on his head as on the LK sleeve. I don't think he put it on every night in Tokyo. He wore it on April 13 as well:
Too bad there are so few photos from exact dates in Japan. I wonder why that is?
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 12, 2020 8:35:24 GMT
I also came across a Japanese site where the writer said that the video of the concert shows that Brian was bowing during at the moment the group shot was taken, and that Brian was holding a John Birch guitar and not the Red Special. Here's an alternate shot, so Brian must have bowed very quickly or the group must have held their pose for a while, if this writer is correct.
And to address this point specifically - now that we know the final image was a composite of two images, I'd say that writer is bang on. It was definitely the Birch, as seen in the video above (most clearly @ 6:35). He broke a string right as he went into the WWRY solo (it sounds awful on the audience tape, floating tremolo and all, to the point that they even edited the solo for the TV broadcast).
To think that all these years millions of people have looked at that photo thinking it was the Red Special...
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Apr 12, 2020 9:04:08 GMT
I was trying to find the best complete live version of Now I'm Here recently, and dug out LK after many a year gathering dust. Have to say, NIH in particular sounded bloody awful, with lots of unwanted distortion. This was the original CD, but I've not had a chance to research different version / masters as yet. The version from the Kampuchea compilation LP is probably your best bet then.
Oh! Never thought of that. 👍
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Apr 12, 2020 9:06:33 GMT
Funny you say its your least played, LK and Flash are the only 2 Queen albums I have never actually owned an original copy of, I only ever had tapes of them after borrowing the cd's from the library decades ago and havent listened to either for just as long. Flash Gordon is definitely not my go to album, but I guess I like it enough to inspire my Queenzone/Queenchat name and avatar. Also, The Hero is one of my favourite songs and I think it's very underrated. I sometimes just listen to that, and the Early Version bonus tracks of The Kiss and Football Fight. Football Fight is a great song!
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Post by deathtoming on Apr 12, 2020 14:43:20 GMT
But it can't be from the 25th, as Mercury is in his silver lurex suit (the red one he wore on the 25th is a helluva lot shorter). Based on the explanation from the photographer (who could've easily been present on April 13 and/or 14 as well), I'd say this shot is from the 24th. Here he is wearing silver the night before:
Oh man, you're right, he's wearing the full silver lurex suit in the cover shot! Good catch. So, the video of him in the red doesn't catch the moment. Too bad, that would have been cool. And I realized the Japanese book itself with the interview has another alternate shot of the attempted cover shot! It takes up more than a full page, and yet it's easy to miss because of where the pages "fold in" for the binding, obscuring Roger with his arms down. Has this photo been seen anywhere else?:
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Post by Wilki Amieva on Apr 12, 2020 18:26:04 GMT
All I can say is that the flat master mix of one of these albums is missing, so they had to use a safety copy of that album and then match it sonically to the other album.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 12, 2020 20:01:16 GMT
But it can't be from the 25th, as Mercury is in his silver lurex suit (the red one he wore on the 25th is a helluva lot shorter). Based on the explanation from the photographer (who could've easily been present on April 13 and/or 14 as well), I'd say this shot is from the 24th. Here he is wearing silver the night before:
Oh man, you're right, he's wearing the full silver lurex suit in the cover shot! Good catch. So, the video of him in the red doesn't catch the moment. Too bad, that would have been cool. But the fact that the photo is from two different dates makes it even more cool to me.
Yet another case of the curtain being pulled back and fascination trumping mystique.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 12, 2020 20:07:04 GMT
And I realized the Japanese book itself with the interview has another alternate shot of the attempted cover shot! It takes up more than a full page, and yet it's easy to miss because of where the pages "fold in" for the binding, obscuring Roger with his arms down. Has this photo been seen anywhere else?: First time I've seen it - brilliant ! So that's three outtake shots now.
Any chance you could post it in higher resolution?
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 12, 2020 20:07:53 GMT
All I can say is that the flat master mix of one of these albums is missing, so they had to use a safety copy of that album and then match it sonically to the other album. You can't leave us hanging like that.
Bring on the details, please and thank you.
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Post by Wilki Amieva on Apr 12, 2020 23:33:03 GMT
That's the whole story, as far as I know. When they retrieved the masters in 1990 this one was one of the missing/damaged ones.
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Post by deathtoming on Apr 13, 2020 3:14:37 GMT
And I realized the Japanese book itself with the interview has another alternate shot of the attempted cover shot! It takes up more than a full page, and yet it's easy to miss because of where the pages "fold in" for the binding, obscuring Roger with his arms down. Has this photo been seen anywhere else?: First time I've seen it - brilliant ! So that's three outtake shots now. Any chance you could post it in higher resolution? Sorry, that image is from the amazon.co.jp preview of the book from the publisher, so that's the best I can do. I can't find much more information online in Japanese, except that the guys also told Koh Hasebe that they'd wrap their arms around each other's shoulders, but never did, which annoyed Hasebe. But I wonder how that would have looked for the cover? This isn't the last time they'd play around with the cover of a live album, though: Nothing on that cover is from Milton Keynes; even that pasted-in image of John in the blue outfit when you see where it came from. credit for the image: www.t-s-w-and-b.com/qtrivia/jaket3.html
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 13, 2020 5:56:17 GMT
This isn't the last time they'd play around with the cover of a live album, though: Nothing on that cover is from Milton Keynes; even that pasted-in image of John in the blue outfit when you see where it came from. credit for the image: www.t-s-w-and-b.com/qtrivia/jaket3.htmlJesus, wow - a composite of three images, and it still isn't that great. It still clearly looks Photoshopped.
But the Live Killers artwork, however, had me convinced for 25 years.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Apr 13, 2020 9:10:34 GMT
How on earth did this start as a request for info on the best CD version of LK and very quickly degenerate into an entirely different discussion? Out of 28 replies, only TWO people have offered an answer to the question. And this place is meant to be an alternative to the crap on Queenzone? !!!!! Here's my answer to the posters question: I don't know. I've had the original UK CD release. I've had the HR remaster and I have the Japanese card sleeve remaster from 2004 (TOCP 67461·62) To my ears, the Japanese remaster is the best sounding version. www.discogs.com/Queen-Live-Killers/release/3886147Hope this helps. There's no need to be so rude. Please refrain from resorting to rudeness.
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