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Post by sms1970 on Nov 29, 2022 21:26:36 GMT
BTW and the most productive period of the band in terms of music and just 1 CD. While there are people who buy anything like that, QPL will continue doing it... The thing is, if we don't buy it, QPL will assume no one wants to buy it, so they won't put out any more. I'd rather have something than nothing. Spot on! |
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antonio
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Post by antonio on Nov 29, 2022 22:20:51 GMT
BTW and the most productive period of the band in terms of music and just 1 CD. While there are people who buy anything like that, QPL will continue doing it... The thing is, if we don't buy it, QPL will assume no one wants to buy it, so they won't put out any more. I'd rather have something than nothing.
Other point of view...
If noone buys this, maybe QPL will think it´s time to open the vaults properly.
Do you think if this boxset doesn´t sell, they will close the company?
Fans (who buy these things) should show them that they don´t want to buy shit.
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antonio
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Post by antonio on Nov 29, 2022 22:21:42 GMT
The thing is, if we don't buy it, QPL will assume no one wants to buy it, so they won't put out any more. I'd rather have something than nothing. Spot on!
I see that point of view very victimistic.
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georg
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Post by georg on Nov 29, 2022 23:33:46 GMT
The thing is, if we don't buy it, QPL will assume no one wants to buy it, so they won't put out any more. I'd rather have something than nothing.
Other point of view...
If noone buys this, maybe QPL will think it´s time to open the vaults properly.
Do you think if this boxset doesn´t sell, they will close the company?
Fans (who buy these things) should show them that they don´t want to buy shit.
Why would QPL open the vaults and continue to produce, manufacture, and market archives box sets if no one buys them? What kind of business sense does that make? And I think if the product doesn’t sell, they’ll release another repress of Greatest Hits. |
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Post by saintjiub on Nov 30, 2022 2:16:27 GMT
Other point of view...
If noone buys this, maybe QPL will think it´s time to open the vaults properly.
Do you think if this boxset doesn´t sell, they will close the company?
Fans (who buy these things) should show them that they don´t want to buy shit.
Why would QPL open the vaults and continue to produce, manufacture, and market archives box sets if no one buys them? What kind of business sense does that make? And I think if the product doesn’t sell, they’ll release another repress of Greatest Hits. Unfortunately, many Queen fans will buy anything (like picture disk LPs) at exorbitant prices. I have foolishly hoped that QPL would be less greedy, and contiunue to offer better value box sets like The Rainbow box, but that was wishful thinking.
Although I am frustrated about overpriced and redundant box sets, I am glad that QPL resumed selling box set items a la carte. Back in the mid-1990s, i developed a "standard" that I would never pay more than $30 for a bootleg disk. Since the Rainbow box set, I have since changed that standard to $30 per "useful" disk.
As I mentioned, I was strongly considering buying the bloated box set anyway, and to the relief of my wife, I saw the 2 CD version and bought it instead (for ~ $26 with postage).
Being a quality assurance engineer for a private company, I have always strived to respect "the customer." Unfortunately, I do not believe that QPL respects hard core Queen fans, and I would rather not be a "fool" and grossly overpay to an industry I dislike. Similarly, I dislike companies that only offer good deals to new customers, but price gouge existing customers.
I am hoping that QPL will continue offering ala carte box sets every year (or two years at most), as I am facing my own mortality. I am 60, obese, and diabetic so I might only have 10 more years left (or less), given that the average American male lives to only 75, and that diabetes typically subtracts about five years.
Who knows, I might make it to 75 and beyond, but nothing is guaranteed.
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pg
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Post by pg on Nov 30, 2022 8:53:24 GMT
Some general points
1. There will never NOT be imminent repressings of Greatest Hits.
2. No Queen release will ever sell zero. There's a constantly changing interaction between how many copies the record company think they will sell, how "good" a release is perceived to be, amongst the hardcore and the wider public (independently of each other), the pricing structure, the marketing, and the macroeconomic climate. How QPL / EMI respond to an individual release's performance is impossible to know, but we have to hope it's a little more nuanced than "Box set lose money, no more box set"
3. The argument that "if you don't buy this, why would they release anything else" is, of course, oversimplified, but it's also slightly missing the point. Discussions of forthcoming / current releases can serve as focus group / marketing research in advance, and the most thorough possible review upon release. It may be expressed as "I'm not buying it", but the key component is actually the reasons given.
4. It seems as though the Rainbow box is constantly held up as the best of the releases. Thinking about why that might be the case, given there's not a massive amount of content, and there's apparently the sacriligeous autotuning, so why is this the good one?
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Post by saintjiub on Nov 30, 2022 16:31:08 GMT
4. It seems as though the Rainbow box is constantly held up as the best of the releases. Thinking about why that might be the case, given there's not a massive amount of content, and there's apparently the sacriligeous autotuning, so why is this the good one? The Rainbow box was only $60, and there was only one redundant disk ... and Fairy Feller alone was almost worth the price of admission ... LOL. Actually the Queen II tour disk is essential in my mind, given that Portland 74 is the only other Queen II concert with listenable sound quality. Also, I do not listen closely enough to notice the autotune.
Rainbow - reasonable price and only one redundant disk
Hammersmith - exorbantly expensive ... and two redundant disks
On Air - moderately expensive ... Three audio interview disks are nice but not worth half the cost of the 6 CD set IMHO. 1973 concert incomplete. Disappointing that 1981 and 1986 concerts only had excerpts (only a few songs) DJ chatter between BBC session songs might be annoying upon repeated listening
News - exorbantly expensive ... and two redundant disks
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Post by mikusguitarius on Nov 30, 2022 17:40:36 GMT
No one has talked about the listening figures from the various streaming platforms.
The Miracle Collector's Edition appears on Tidal and Amazon Music (almost certainly on Spotify and Apple Music too) and the videos are on Youtube in HD.
Only selling 7800 in the UK is pretty shocking but if enough revenue comes from streaming then perhaps the box sets WILL continue.
I certainly hope so.
(For the record, I bought the physical product... despite paying £19.99 for Tidal HiFi plus as well haha!!)
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Dec 2, 2022 9:32:17 GMT
Guys, some comments were made in this thread, including from myself, that, with hindsight, could have been put differently. Issues between relevent parties have now been resolved, therefore this thread has had some posts removed and some edited, to preserve continuity.
Please contact a member of forum staff if you have any further issues or enquiries. This thread can now continue with the topic discussion.
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eiricd
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Post by eiricd on Dec 2, 2022 9:39:38 GMT
Yeah I agree too about Knebworth…. Just ANOTHER Magic tour release and nothing tops Budapest for me (better performances than either Wembley night and much better recorded and mixed IMHO) Innuendo is the most logical release for the next box set surely, using the template of this current release i.e. disc of alternative versions, disc of instrumentals, promo videos FINALLY!! etc etc. The only interesting thing on a release of Knebworth is a kind of highlight DVD / BluRay in the set, that contains all the footage available from this gig. Sadly not the complete gig was filmed, but some parts and backstage footage. A cd/blu ray combo would be terrific. the video could contain whatever footage they have. also, why not do a documentary on the 1986 tour? There is the fairly short one included on the Budapest release, and there's also something on the original Wembley dvd release. But why not combine them, and add some new interviews? I'm sure both Brian and Roger will be able to dig out memories of certain gigs / happenings which have not been talked about on camera yet. |
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Post by Lord Fickle on Dec 2, 2022 10:22:09 GMT
I could be wrong but isn't Knebworth considered to be not a terribly good show? Isn't that the one where there's a clip of John throwing his bass into a speaker? If that's the case, then they might not want to release anything for that reason.
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eiricd
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Post by eiricd on Dec 2, 2022 11:04:05 GMT
Greg seems like a decent enough guy to me, judging from the interviews I've seen / heard.
I love the fact that he doesn't like the movie, and is clear about it, even though he's employed by the band.
The bottom line is this; Brian and Roger have the final say regarding products. They have turned down suggestions that fans would have prefered over what was actually released. (single's box sets spring to mind)
as far as pricing go; box sets are crazy expensive these days. Compared to others though, Kiss & Guns n Roses for instance, the new Queen box is not that bad considering price/content.
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eiricd
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Post by eiricd on Dec 2, 2022 11:10:25 GMT
I could be wrong but isn't Knebworth considered to be not a terribly good show? Isn't that the one where there's a clip of John throwing his bass into a speaker? If that's the case, then they might not want to release anything for that reason. dunno about the general opinion, but the Knebworth part of Live Magic is on par with Wembley and Budapest imo. Under Pressure, from the 1999 single, is also really good |
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Raf
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Post by Raf on Dec 2, 2022 18:08:00 GMT
I could be wrong but isn't Knebworth considered to be not a terribly good show? Isn't that the one where there's a clip of John throwing his bass into a speaker? If that's the case, then they might not want to release anything for that reason. The Wembley 2nd night is definitely not "a terribly good show", musically wise. The first night was better, Budapest was better, several other Magic Tour nights were better. It was released anyway, probably just because it was broadcasted on TV, so they had little work to do on it and people were familiar with it. The bass thing doesn't sound like something they'd have to hide, but if they really didn't like it, it'd be easy to just copy-and-paste literally anything else from the concert (an audience shot, any Freddie pose etc) - and that is assuming they had an edited video rather than the cameras raw footage. I've always been very pessimist about Knebworth: they probably did not know it would definitely be their last concert, or if they did, they didn't consider back then that it would be so historically relevant and simply didn't bother filming it, as back then it was probably more difficult and more expensive to just have a concert filmed for "no reason" and store the tapes safely for years. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 19:21:15 GMT
Surely Knebworth would have been released shortly after freddies death if it existed.
Although maybe it will eventually turn up, just like the live aid soundboard that was used in bohemian rhapsody.
Next release is live killers....
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Post by mikusguitarius on Dec 2, 2022 21:32:36 GMT
The point about Knebworth Raf is they could've done exactly what they did with Earls Court 77.... simply connect a VCR up to the screen output and record it. In other other words, just what the 2 or 3 cameras were shooting to feed the live screen(s) with realtime vision mixing. In 1986 it could have been a Beta SP or High U-matic format... broadcast quality in other words. The Whitesnake Donington 1990 DVD release is actually sourced from connecting a consumer VHS VCR to the live feed... and looks terrible!!! 240 lines, but its still something I guess!! |
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pg
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Post by pg on Dec 3, 2022 8:51:01 GMT
The point about Knebworth Raf is they could've done exactly what they did with Earls Court 77.... simply connect a VCR up to the screen output and record it. I can't believe we're doing the Knebworth conversation AGAIN, but... It's not (to me) a case of "could've". It's a question of why WOULD they - by the time they get to Knebworth, they've already got Wembley filmed for TV, and Budapest for home video. There's no reason to record more video footage. |
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Post by mikusguitarius on Dec 3, 2022 10:31:22 GMT
That's a daft argument IMHO pg ;-) Why NOT record every screen feed output of every concert if you can? (purely for archival purposes). I'm sure that every live screen feed of every Q+PR and Q+AL gig has been recorded to hard drive because it's no hassle to do it!! We're not talking a massive multi camera film shoot with Cranes and Steadicams.... just the few cameras that feed the screens every night. Every major band records the audio of the desk to (at least) stereo 2 track every night and have done for decades. Why wouldn't they? |
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antonio
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Post by antonio on Dec 3, 2022 11:15:12 GMT
I could be wrong but isn't Knebworth considered to be not a terribly good show? Isn't that the one where there's a clip of John throwing his bass into a speaker? If that's the case, then they might not want to release anything for that reason.
Then they wouldn´t have talked about on several documentaries even putting some images of it...
Roger and Brian have talked many times about this JD issue...
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Post by florians on Dec 3, 2022 12:18:21 GMT
That's a daft argument IMHO pg ;-) Why NOT record every screen feed output of every concert if you can? (purely for archival purposes). I'm sure that every live screen feed of every Q+PR and Q+AL gig has been recorded to hard drive because it's no hassle to do it!! We're not talking a massive multi camera film shoot with Cranes and Steadicams.... just the few cameras that feed the screens every night. Every major band records the audio of the desk to (at least) stereo 2 track every night and have done for decades. Why wouldn't they? Nowadays this is easy, but in 1986 ot has been a different story. |
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pg
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Post by pg on Dec 3, 2022 12:40:19 GMT
That's a daft argument IMHO pg ;-) Why NOT record every screen feed output of every concert if you can? (purely for archival purposes). I'm sure that every live screen feed of every Q+PR and Q+AL gig has been recorded to hard drive because it's no hassle to do it!! We're not talking a massive multi camera film shoot with Cranes and Steadicams.... just the few cameras that feed the screens every night. Since we're making allegations of the daftness of arguments - how much were hard drives in 1986? And how many would have been needed, given they were about 10Mb each? It would seem clear that the answer to "why wouldn't they" is "they didn't see a need" because most of the Magic Tour had a big screen and yet they chose to "just strap a hard drive to the feed" at exactly NONE of them.... |
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eiricd
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Post by eiricd on Dec 3, 2022 19:10:30 GMT
That's a daft argument IMHO pg ;-) Why NOT record every screen feed output of every concert if you can? (purely for archival purposes). I'm sure that every live screen feed of every Q+PR and Q+AL gig has been recorded to hard drive because it's no hassle to do it!! We're not talking a massive multi camera film shoot with Cranes and Steadicams.... just the few cameras that feed the screens every night. Every major band records the audio of the desk to (at least) stereo 2 track every night and have done for decades. Why wouldn't they? Nowadays this is easy, but in 1986 ot has been a different story. these days it's the easiest thing in the world to record audio, and if you have video screens, the video feed. most major bands have a very decent camera set up on any given night, so there's potentially a very good looking concert film from every single gig a bands records. I think they should open up the QPR and Qal archives, and start releasing videos. why not donate some of the profits to the MPT? on a related topic; Bruce Springsteen has had an archive series (audio only) going for 8 years. The amount of multitrack recordings he has put out from the 75-88 era is quite impressive, especially considering the amount of equipment/work that meant at the time. Not to mention the expense. Now; from 75-84, Springsteen was a moderate success compared to Queen, so why he had the knack for recording tours properly and Queen didn't? Who knows.... of course - Queen MAY have loads of stuff in the vault no one knows about.... |
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pg
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Post by pg on Dec 3, 2022 22:18:15 GMT
Er...Springsteen was huge in the states in the 70s.
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eiricd
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Post by eiricd on Dec 4, 2022 8:08:53 GMT
Er...Springsteen was huge in the states in the 70s. not compared to Queen. It was only after The River he really moved into playing arenas |
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Post by mikusguitarius on Dec 4, 2022 10:32:47 GMT
Hi pg Apologies if you mistook my use of the word 'daft' (which was followed by a winking emoji) I was being friendly... not rude. Sorry for any ambiguity. Anyway... I made NO mention of using a hard drive to digitally record Knebworth's screen output of 1986. I was directly talking about modern tours of Q+PR and Q+AL. In my post #75 (just 2 posts before talking about hard drives) I mentioned using broadcast VCRs in the 80s. As far as your 'they didn't see the need to' argument.... yes OK fair enough, I take your point. |
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sergei
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Post by sergei on Dec 4, 2022 12:39:06 GMT
Hi, boys and girls! Please, tell me what in this video mr. Greg says about original duet FM with Rod Stewart "Take Another Little Peace Of My Heart (let Me Live)"?
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baronlutenvank
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Post by baronlutenvank on Dec 4, 2022 13:12:57 GMT
Hi, boys and girls! Please, tell me what in this video mr. Greg says about original duet FM with Rod Stewart "Take Another Little Peace Of My Heart (let Me Live)"? You can hear a bit of that demo on the Great Pretender documentary released 10 years ago. |
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pg
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Post by pg on Dec 4, 2022 16:14:20 GMT
Hi pg Apologies if you mistook my use of the word 'daft' (which was followed by a winking emoji) I was being friendly... not rude. There was / is no issue for me. Imagine a positive emoji.... |
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Raf
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Post by Raf on Dec 4, 2022 18:12:43 GMT
I was directly talking about modern tours of Q+PR and Q+AL. Especifically here I'll agree with you. Nowadays it's easy and cheap, every concert has a few cameras to feed the large screens, and many fans who attended the concert would be happy to buy at least a digital copy, not to mention the large amount of footage they'd have to make music videos, collector boxsets, documentaries etc in the future. I'm surprised they don't sell at least the audio from each concert. Metallica's been selling audio from almost every concert, not to mention the occasional videos (which are made from the video feed cameras), and given how long it's been going on, I can only assume it at the very least pays itself. Not to mention it's a somewhat easy way to please the fans. However, as others have pointed out, that couldn't possibly have been the case for the Magic Tour in 1986. Back in the day filming a concert was a huge deal. Ignoring for a minute the costs of bringing the filming crew and equipment along, just consider the actual volume of tapes they'd have produced and all the structure they'd need to keep them stashed in good conditions. If they would keep the raw camera footage from every camera from every concert, they'd need large rooms with controlled temperature and moisture. Otherwise, they'd need to pay a crew to edit and generate a final video for every single concert - which probably wouldn't even sound feasible for commercial release later on, considering their live concerts from the Magic Tour barely fit those times' most common media formats, as we can see from the edits on the original Live At Wembley 2LP. |
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Post by mikusguitarius on Dec 4, 2022 23:10:55 GMT
Yeah Raf The Who were doing just this as well in the Noughties... both CDs, and DVDs from the screen footage. Obviously it was mostly close ups because why would you need wide establishing shots on the screens. Even so, they're very enjoyable to watch (and have!) Your last paragraph.... again I repeat: I wasn't talking about anything other than recording the screen output as it was vision mixed on the night (just like I say in my last paragraph). I have never said anything about individual camera outputs being recorded on the Magic tour (except for Wembley obviously - where they brought in lots more cameras for the shoots). Incidentally, just keeping literally one or two Beta SP tapes (actually a fraction smaller than a VHS) from each night would hardly take up that much room on a truck in the great scheme of things. Admittedly, Quad or U-matic tapes are bulkier and heavier but I would put money on Beta SP tapes being used by the mid 80s. Worth pointing out that such a camera crew - for example, say, 3 operated cameras (for video screens) do travel as part of the crew (along with required equipment). And yes: I have direct experience of working on a major arena tour with a travelling camera crew for screens on every night we did. So I speak from actual knowledge and experience... not conjecture!! |
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