highlander
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Post by highlander on Sept 5, 2021 3:19:45 GMT
All this for a mediocre album. 🙄 I know they'd have less studio material to work with, but why can't they do something like this for ADATR or QII and include some of the live stuff we know they have? That must be a marketing trick to start with an album that is less known to the public (surprise effect). The public and the main audience will see how the box set will turn out and look forward to see other albums coming out as box sets. BTW: It's my favorite 80s Queen album.
"The Miracle" as a double album would have worked quite well if they'd have finished the tracks like "I Guess We're Falling Out", "Dog With A Bone" and "Face It Alone".
LP 1
Side A: Party Kashoggi's Ship
I Want It All The Miracle The Invisible Man
LP 1 Side B:
Breakthru Rain Must Fall
Scandal My Baby Does Me
Was It All Worth It
LP 2 Side A: Chinese Torture Hijack My Heart Hang On In There My Life Has Been Saved
LP 2 Side B: I Guess We're Falling Out
Too Much Love Will Kill You Dog With A Bone Stealin' Face It Alone
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Sept 5, 2021 11:32:12 GMT
The Miracle is only a mediocre album if you compare it to Queen's finest. Taken in the context of what was coming out in the late '80s in general (both by established acts from the '70s and newer bands), it is, as many reviewers noted at the time, a return to form. Do I like *every* track on The Miracle? No. But I don't like every track on ANATO either. Does it have good rockers? Yes. A strong ballad? Yes. Does it have unexpected, innovative stuff? Considering the fact that many people are *still* unable to handle the outlandish harmonies on Party/Khashoggi's Ship, most definitely!
If any other band than Queen had come out with The Miracle in 1989, we'd have been celebrating it as a great record.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Sept 5, 2021 12:23:48 GMT
The Miracle is only a mediocre album if you compare it to Queen's finest. Taken in the context of what was coming out in the late '80s in general (both by established acts from the '70s and newer bands), it is, as many reviewers noted at the time, a return to form. Do I like *every* track on The Miracle? No. But I don't like every track on ANATO either. Does it have good rockers? Yes. A strong ballad? Yes. Does it have unexpected, innovative stuff? Considering the fact that many people are *still* unable to handle the outlandish harmonies on Party/Khashoggi's Ship, most definitely! If any other band than Queen had come out with The Miracle in 1989, we'd have been celebrating it as a great record. For a time I really didn't look upon The Miracle very favorably. For me, it seemed too poppy and light sounding and I dismissed it in favor of a more serious sounding record like Innuendo. But more recently, especially after seeing the entire album performed live at Freddie's 73rd birthday party in Montreux, it occurred to me that, yes, it was a return to form. Of course, it doesn't compare to classic albums like ANATO or ADATR, but it's a return to form in the sense that they were back on track and moving forward with a solid album with lots of guitar and excellent songwriting. I can't speak for what it must have been like at the time, but I imagine it was a breath of fresh air to hear this record after A Kind of Magic, which was a bit patchy if you ask me. Over time, I think The Miracle is slowly creeping into my top 5 Queen albums.
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Sept 5, 2021 12:47:40 GMT
I was bitterly diappointed by The Miracle, I wanted something more "rock". In fact the bloody fan club even claimed it would "rock our socks off". I was flabbergasted at how many tracks used synth bass and drum machines and how poppy it all was. "I Want It All" as lead single was utterly atypical of the album's sound, and if anything "Party" and "Khashoggi's Ship" led us up the garden path.
Strangely I never felt that way about Hot Space, but perhaps that's because I bought that one while exploring the entire previous 15 years of Queen LPs. It was just another facet to their sound (and I dug how refreshingly 'pop' it was in contrast to the 70s).
The Miracle I bought in 'real time' and as the brand new, long awaited release it was under a lot more scrutiny and I was a bit gutted tbh. Interestingly someone else here (Bresnki? Lord Fickle?) claimed recently that's exactly how they felt about Hot Space in 82.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 5, 2021 13:04:40 GMT
The Miracle I bought in 'real time' and as the brand new, long awaited release it was under a lot more scrutiny and I was a bit gutted tbh. Interestingly someone else here (Bresnki? Lord Fickle?) claimed recently that's exactly how they felt about Hot Space in 82. I think both of us. For me, you're right, I'd been awaiting a return to a more rock based format, which indeed had been promised in the lead up to the album, and IWIA initially satisfied that anticipation, but sadly most of the rest of the album didn't. As I previously said, this was largely because of the production, and the use of processed drums on many of the tracks was a real let down. Even IWIA sounds dated now. I think the biggest disappointment was Breakthru, imagining how good it could have been with proper drums and a thicker guitar sound. The 12" mix was something of an improvement, in that the drums were louder, but they were still processed. WIAWI was as exasperating as it was brilliant, as it just showed how the album could have sounded, in a "Here's what you could have won..." kind of way. As for Hot Space in 1982, whilst the disappointment was huge, I don't think expectations were all that high, as following Flash Gordon, the band had largely fallen off my radar at that time, given it seemed apparent that they weren't going to produce anything of the magnitude of the first five albums again. What would make me extremely happy with the box set would be if Brian and Roger had secretly been in the studio and re-recorded their drum and guitar parts, using real drums and a fuller, more 70s, guitar sound, but I think there's about as much chance of that as there is me running a marathon and not dropping dead within the first 100 yards!
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 5, 2021 13:17:44 GMT
I was bitterly diappointed by The Miracle, I wanted something more "rock". In fact the bloody fan club even claimed it would "rock our socks off". I was flabbergasted at how many tracks used synth bass and drum machines and how poppy it all was. "I Want It All" as lead single was utterly atypical of the album's sound, and if anything "Party" and "Khashoggi's Ship" led us up the garden path. the album is more akin to Queen of old. You have to put it in context of actually Queen reality. Queen were never a rock band in the classic/hard rock sense. However, their albums usually had sprinklings of stuff that loosely fitted the rock genre. The watering down of the rock edge happened long before and The Miracle was - if anything - a return to form. You only have to look at the rock "reduction" album-by-album: I - 8 II - 7 SHA - 7 ANATO - 5 ADATR - 5 NoTW - 6 Jazz - 6 Game - 3 HS - 2 Works -2 AKoM - 2 Miracle - 5 The Miracle I bought in 'real time' and as the brand new, long awaited release it was under a lot more scrutiny and I was a bit gutted tbh. Interestingly someone else here (Brenski? Lord Fickle?) claimed recently that's exactly how they felt about Hot Space in 82. i 100% guarantee that if you'd bought The Miracle in "real time" after having bought The Game, Hot Space and AKOM all in "real time" too, you'd have liked it a lot more. worse yet, had you bought Queen albums in real time at any time prior to The Game, you'd have noticed the difference and resented it.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 5, 2021 13:42:13 GMT
The Miracle I bought in 'real time' and as the brand new, long awaited release it was under a lot more scrutiny and I was a bit gutted tbh. Interestingly someone else here (Brenski? Lord Fickle?) claimed recently that's exactly how they felt about Hot Space in 82. i 100% guarantee that if you'd bought The Miracle in "real time" after having bought The Game, Hot Space and AKOM all in "real time" too, you'd have liked it a lot more. worse yet, had you bought Queen albums in real time at any time prior to The Game, you'd have noticed the difference and resented it. I agree with the point that The Miracle was certainly an improvement on Hot Space and AKOM (save for One Vision). I quite like(d) The Game though. At least it had real drums and a good guitar sound, and I rather like the sparseness of the production. For me, I think a lot of the issues relate to the fact that I fell in love with the band in 1974 because they were producing the sort of music I really enjoyed. The kinds of music I like have broadened over the years, but I'm still drawn to music played on real instruments, rather than processed or electronic stuff. Queen's music changed, and it seemed they weren't doing what I wanted them to do and what I fell in love with them for. I still adore the earlier albums, because I'm from that time, but I'll never have the same love for most of the later material.
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chowder
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Post by chowder on Sept 5, 2021 17:13:30 GMT
What would make me extremely happy with the box set would be if Brian and Roger had secretly been in the studio and re-recorded their drum and guitar parts, using real drums and a fuller, more 70s, guitar sound, but I think there's about as much chance of that as there is me running a marathon and not dropping dead within the first 100 yards! Weren't Brian and Roger in the studio with AL earlier this year or last year.............? Reimagined Miracle
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Sept 5, 2021 17:39:46 GMT
What would make me extremely happy with the box set would be if Brian and Roger had secretly been in the studio and re-recorded their drum and guitar parts, using real drums and a fuller, more 70s, guitar sound, but I think there's about as much chance of that as there is me running a marathon and not dropping dead within the first 100 yards! Weren't Brian and Roger in the studio with AL earlier this year or last year.............? Reimagined Miracle now you've gone and done it. remember - when this comes to pass, it's ALL your fault.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 5, 2021 18:13:37 GMT
Weren't Brian and Roger in the studio with AL earlier this year or last year.............? Reimagined Miracle now you've gone and done it. remember - when this comes to pass, it's ALL your fault.
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khizzy
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Post by khizzy on Sept 5, 2021 19:37:14 GMT
These Amazon links - does anyone know if are they new ones or from last year when it was rumoured to be released but got mysteriously pulled??
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highlander
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Post by highlander on Sept 6, 2021 16:28:28 GMT
What would make me extremely happy with the box set would be if Brian and Roger had secretly been in the studio and re-recorded their drum and guitar parts, using real drums and a fuller, more 70s, guitar sound, but I think there's about as much chance of that as there is me running a marathon and not dropping dead within the first 100 yards! Weren't Brian and Roger in the studio with AL earlier this year or last year.............? Reimagined Miracle
@fickle History's foundation (the actual recordings) should never be changed or be replaced at all just because some people don't like the sound. No offence to you but this reminds me of people disliking the original mix of the Pink Floyd album "A Momentary Lapse Of Reason" that sounds very 80s to some people and they hate it for that reason alone despite it being a great album. Everyone's taste is different right but missing out on a album because of the sound is like returning a baby because it's got the wrong face.
You can never please everyone but then that's the best reason to go with the version the band (and Freddie too) approved.
The drums on Miracle were indended to sound the way they do and what seems old-fashioned to us now was considered good enough back then when it was the present. Re-record the whole thing completely and call it "The Miracle: Reinterpreted" to avoid it becoming a replacement in the future.
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highlander
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Post by highlander on Sept 6, 2021 16:28:59 GMT
<abbr>post got mixed up </abbr>
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mike71
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Post by mike71 on Sept 6, 2021 16:51:08 GMT
I like The Miracle now, more than I did in 1989. It's not a classic, but I like most of the songs. I still think it's an odd album for a boxset. Why not Innuendo?
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 6, 2021 16:53:51 GMT
Weren't Brian and Roger in the studio with AL earlier this year or last year.............? Reimagined Miracle
@fickle History's foundation (the actual recordings) should never be changed or be replaced at all just because some people don't like the sound. No offence to you but this reminds me of people disliking the original mix of the Pink Floyd album "A Momentary Lapse Of Reason" that sounds very 80s to some people and they hate it for that reason alone despite it being a great album. Everyone's taste is different right but missing out on a album because of the sound is like returning a baby because it's got the wrong face.
You can never please everyone but then that's the best reason to go with the version the band (and Freddie too) approved.
The drums on Miracle were indended to sound the way they do and what seems old-fashioned to us now was considered good enough back then when it was the present. Re-record the whole thing completely and call it "The Miracle: Reinterpreted" to avoid it becoming a replacement in the future.
Conversely, I've never understood people complaining about newer versions (such as remasters, remixes, re-records, etc) of older material. The older material still exists, so those that don't like the updated versions can simply play their old CDs, or format of choice. Given this is slated to be a nine disc box set, even if they were to offer up a revised version of the album, then there would be plenty of room for the original as well. Best of both worlds. 🙂
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 6, 2021 16:58:44 GMT
I like The Miracle now, more than I did in 1989. It's not a classic, but I like most of the songs. I still think it's an odd album for a boxset. Why not Innuendo? Presumably there's more 'ready material' for The Miracle.
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highlander
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Post by highlander on Sept 6, 2021 18:03:09 GMT
@fickle History's foundation (the actual recordings) should never be changed or be replaced at all just because some people don't like the sound. No offence to you but this reminds me of people disliking the original mix of the Pink Floyd album "A Momentary Lapse Of Reason" that sounds very 80s to some people and they hate it for that reason alone despite it being a great album. Everyone's taste is different right but missing out on a album because of the sound is like returning a baby because it's got the wrong face.
You can never please everyone but then that's the best reason to go with the version the band (and Freddie too) approved.
The drums on Miracle were indended to sound the way they do and what seems old-fashioned to us now was considered good enough back then when it was the present. Re-record the whole thing completely and call it "The Miracle: Reinterpreted" to avoid it becoming a replacement in the future.
Conversely, I've never understood people complaining about newer versions (such as remasters, remixes, re-records, etc) of older material. The older material still exists, so those that don't like the updated versions can simply play their old CDs, or format of choice. Given this is slated to be a nine disc box set, even if they were to offer up a revised version of the album, then there would be plenty of room for the original as well. Best of both worlds. 🙂 Again no offence to you Queen-mate but I have read that argument about the original not vanishing a dozens times. Fair enough we all don't know what will happen in the future and what will be available or not so we can only guess. Of course the original tapes are not going to be used to re-record something new just as the original releases (CDs, records, tapes etc.) will not be overridden nor destroyed. It's a different thing when it's only a new mix. It's semi-changing the original but you don't get rid of it completely as it's only changing the fidelity (if they don't do it as Apple with the Beatles album "Abbey Road" (the 2019 mix) which is a different version in some parts and not just an sonic improvement like Pepper was praised in 2017)]
Re-recoding music after 30 years destroys it's authenticity as it's not the original anymore. Queen should be loyal to their own music catalogue and leave it as it is... legendary!
The more versions exist the harder it will be one day to get the original. This very topic just leaves a bitter taste as this can open Pandora's box. If you can change one thing why not changing everything because of various reasons?
What I'm saying with this is: Don't make it confusable to the main public with the original otherwise the original will fade out of society.
Did I mention that re-recording music is a very lazy attempt to create something new that isn't new? I rather see them recording an album with Adam Lambert as there was one with Paul Rodgers too!
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Post by saintjiub on Sept 6, 2021 19:14:08 GMT
Darth Vader doesn't say "no ... Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"
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rylan2020
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Post by rylan2020 on Sept 7, 2021 4:05:59 GMT
I like The Miracle now, more than I did in 1989. It's not a classic, but I like most of the songs. I still think it's an odd album for a boxset. Why not Innuendo? Presumably there's more 'ready material' for The Miracle. The band has said that there was something like 30 songs thrown out. It’s not the worst idea for a boxset. Hell many of the innuendo songs had there start during the miracle session
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chowder
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Post by chowder on Sept 7, 2021 14:08:52 GMT
I am really looking forward to this box set. Even when 80% of the material is nothing new (although I would obviously be disappointed). Just to have a deluxe edition of a Queen album in my hands is a great experience. Just like it was for NOTW, although I was disappointed about the book (just photos, no addnl information).
And let's face it, hardcore fans just tend to have too much stuff about their favorite band already. You can never please them. No matter what will be officially released. There will always be someone who has nearly everything.
Am sure that we will get out-takes or demo stuff that was already shared during a convention, but again, only die hard fans attend such conventions so only a small audience will be impacted when those recordings will be officially released. Although I do expect that we might get alternate versions of those songs which were shared during a convention. Just like for the NOTW out-take Feelings Feelings (take 10 was on the 2011 remaster, think we heard take 9 during a convention).
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 7, 2021 15:35:47 GMT
"The Miracle" as a double album would have worked quite well if they'd have finished the tracks like "I Guess We're Falling Out", "Dog With A Bone" and "Face It Alone".
LP 2 Side A: Chinese Torture Hijack My Heart Hang On In There My Life Has Been Saved LP 2 Side B: I Guess We're Falling Out
Too Much Love Will Kill You Dog With A Bone Stealin' Face It Alone
My god, that would've been a ton of fat to trim. Thank goodness most of that was relegated to B-sides or the cutting room floor.
Perhaps they could've replaced one of the Deacon tracks with My Life Has Been Saved, but then it may not have ended up on Made in Heaven - which is overall the far better album. 99% of the time bands make the right decisions. The Miracle was the beginning of a climb up a ladder to making great albums again.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 7, 2021 15:37:10 GMT
Does it have unexpected, innovative stuff? Considering the fact that many people are *still* unable to handle the outlandish harmonies on Party/Khashoggi's Ship, most definitely! Bingo.
Party is one of the most unique and musically satisfying tracks in the entire Queen catalogue. I will never understand how people can like Mustapha and Princes of the Universe but not this one too. They are all cut from the same cloth.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Sept 7, 2021 15:38:51 GMT
Re-recoding music after 30 years destroys it's authenticity as it's not the original anymore. I'd argue that it's a case by case basis. The recently redone version of Floyd's Momentary Lapse of Reason absolutely destroys the 1987 release. They axed the drum machines and session players, and now it's almost entirely just the three guys in Floyd - Nick Mason played new parts, and Rick Wright's parts were flown in from outtakes or live performances from the tour. No More Turning Away now sounds like it could've been on Wish You Were Here, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
George Lucas redoing the old Star Wars film is an abomination, but not everything falls under that category. Sometimes art takes a while to reach its fruition. Some things are Picasso, others are Cezanne.
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highlander
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Post by highlander on Sept 7, 2021 15:49:19 GMT
Presumably there's more 'ready material' for The Miracle. The band has said that there was something like 30 songs thrown out. It’s not the worst idea for a boxset. Hell many of the innuendo songs had there start during the miracle session Innuendo would make a great box set because of it's cover artwork alone.
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highlander
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Post by highlander on Sept 7, 2021 16:21:16 GMT
Perhaps they could've replaced one of the Deacon tracks with My Life Has Been Saved, but then it may not have ended up on Made in Heaven - which is overall the far better album. 99% of the time bands make the right decisions. The Miracle was the beginning of a climb up a ladder to making great albums again. I agree with you on that. It's amazing how timeless Made in Heaven sounds even still today. Aged like it didn't age at all!
buuuuut... no love for Stealin' and Hijack My Heart?
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Sept 7, 2021 16:34:08 GMT
Perhaps they could've replaced one of the Deacon tracks with My Life Has Been Saved, but then it may not have ended up on Made in Heaven - which is overall the far better album. 99% of the time bands make the right decisions. The Miracle was the beginning of a climb up a ladder to making great albums again. I agree with you on that. It's amazing how timeless Made in Heaven sounds even still today. Aged like it didn't age at all!
buuuuut... no love for Stealin' and Hijack My Heart?Â
Hijack My Heart isn't a bad track for a B side. I wonder if we'll get the 12 minute demo of Stealin' in the box set?
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Sept 7, 2021 16:53:20 GMT
Does it have unexpected, innovative stuff? Considering the fact that many people are *still* unable to handle the outlandish harmonies on Party/Khashoggi's Ship, most definitely! Bingo.
Party is one of the most unique and musically satisfying tracks in the entire Queen catalogue. I will never understand how people can like Mustapha and Princes of the Universe but not this one too. They are all cut from the same cloth.
Party is in my top 20 Queen songs. I love it!
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highlander
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Post by highlander on Sept 7, 2021 18:18:11 GMT
Hijack My Heart isn't a bad track for a B side. I wonder if we'll get the 12 minute demo of Stealin' in the box set?
Tripple colored 12" vinyl record with an etched b-side for Record Store Day 2022 limited to 1989 copies.
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mike71
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Post by mike71 on Sept 7, 2021 18:40:12 GMT
I definitely hear good things on Party, but no way is it on the level of Mustapha and POTU. Those were great Freddie songs, Party has grown on me over the years, along with the rest of The Miracle, but I still think It's their weakest opening song.
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Post by ShaneJazz on Sept 7, 2021 19:21:01 GMT
I definitely hear good things on Party, but no way is it on the level of Mustapha and POTU. Those were great Freddie songs, Party has grown on me over the years, along with the rest of The Miracle, but I still think It's their weakest opening song. I totally agree. Do you think Breakthru would have worked as the album opener?
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