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Post by The Real Wizard on May 8, 2021 0:42:29 GMT
Queen during late 70s and early 80s evolved as music composers in terms of music theory, their songs were in away more in theory correct than some of their 70s. It is difficult to discribe it. Interesting, could you elaborate on that? No need - it's verifiably false.
Their musical vocabulary was most elaborately employed in the 1974-76 period, with the odd exception.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on May 8, 2021 10:20:44 GMT
The beatles will always influence, Queen music has also big influence in many artist and bands, but I believe that the Beatles have an advantage compare to Queen. Their music and vocals is easier to replicated by a high school band, while Queen have very distinctive sound and vocals. High school bands can easily replicate Strawberry Fields Forever, Tomorrow Never Knows, She's Leaving Home, and A Day in the Life ? Sonically, and not just the notes ?
This isn't distinctive ?
Let's not forget they only had 4- and 8-track tape to work with in the late '60s, so their ideas were limited by the technology they had available at the time - and they still pushed those limits as far as they could, with Geoff Emerick often inventing things for them upon request. Had they progressed into the next decade with 16- and 24-track tape at their disposal there's no question they would've continued along a similar path to Queen, who kind of picked up where The Beatles left off in a lot of ways.
Don't discount the accomplishments of The Beatles, or you'll be bordering on Stepford territory where Queen is the greatest thing ever and the band who wrote the blueprint was just rolling out the red carpet for the anointed ones.
OK there are plenty songs from the Beatles catalog which are complicated in terms of production, orchestration,however the first things that, a school band or any kid, teenager tries to play is the less complicated. I remember the bands in my teenage years always played paranoid, smoke on the water and from the Beatles yesterday, rain etc. The vocals on the beatles songs makes a teenager more comfortable than singing Queen or Led Zeppelin. In my opinion John Lennon was great singer and has some difficult roads,but the color of his voice creates a feeling of "I can do this with my band". Also strawberry fields can be stripped down and be played by acoustic guitar and noboby give a dam. Nowadays the teenagers are very good on their instruments, some of them are virtuoso. The only worry is that sometimes lose the feeling. Times have changed I am very optimist that, the new generation will bring good music in the near future.
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Steve
Wordles & Heardles
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Post by Steve on May 8, 2021 10:32:00 GMT
High school bands can easily replicate Strawberry Fields Forever, Tomorrow Never Knows, She's Leaving Home, and A Day in the Life ? Sonically, and not just the notes ?
This isn't distinctive ?
Let's not forget they only had 4- and 8-track tape to work with in the late '60s, so their ideas were limited by the technology they had available at the time - and they still pushed those limits as far as they could, with Geoff Emerick often inventing things for them upon request. Had they progressed into the next decade with 16- and 24-track tape at their disposal there's no question they would've continued along a similar path to Queen, who kind of picked up where The Beatles left off in a lot of ways.
Don't discount the accomplishments of The Beatles, or you'll be bordering on Stepford territory where Queen is the greatest thing ever and the band who wrote the blueprint was just rolling out the red carpet for the anointed ones.
OK there are plenty songs from the Beatles catalog which are complicated in terms of production, orchestration,however the first things that, a school band or any kid, teenager tries to play is the less complicated. I remember the bands in my teenage years always played paranoid, smoke on the water and from the Beatles yesterday, rain etc. The vocals on the beatles songs makes a teenager more comfortable than singing Queen or Led Zeppelin. In my opinion John Lennon was great singer and has some difficult roads,but the color of his voice creates a feeling of "I can do this with my band". Also strawberry fields can be stripped down and be played by acoustic guitar and noboby give a dam. Nowadays the teenagers are very good on their instruments, some of them are virtuoso. The only worry is that sometimes lose the feeling. Times have changed I am very optimist that, the new generation will bring good music in the near future. Because is one on my favourites from the fab 4.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on May 8, 2021 10:49:14 GMT
Queen during late 70s and early 80s evolved as music composers in terms of music theory, their songs were in away more in theory correct than some of their 70s. It is difficult to discribe it. it's difficult to describe, because it just isn't true. even some of Roger's "simpler" 70s songs were much more complicated than most of Queen's 80s output. I'd argue that "evolved" is almost entirely the wrong word to use (perhaps a language/translation issue?). If however, you had used the word "conventional", then you may have had a point. Sure, Queen adopted a more conventional approach to song-writing in the 80s, but that is so very far from evolution. In truth Queen's 80s output was a lazy pursuit of radio-friendly hits coupled with lavish TV-hogging videos, the result of which was a regression (rather than evolution) to 50s/60s song structures that would guarantee airplay and bigger (4-singles per album) payoffs. This is a world-and-a-half removed from their truly innovative and fully-evolved compositions of the 70s. OK there are plenty songs from the Beatles catalog which are complicated in terms of production, orchestration,however the first things that, a school band or any kid, teenager tries to play is the less complicated. I remember the bands in my teenage years always played paranoid, smoke on the water and from the Beatles yesterday, rain etc. The vocals on the beatles songs makes a teenager more comfortable than singing Queen or Led Zeppelin. In my opinion John Lennon was great singer and has some difficult roads,but the color of his voice creates a feeling of "I can do this with my band". Also strawberry fields can be stripped down and be played by acoustic guitar and noboby give a dam. Nowadays the teenagers are very good on their instruments, some of them are virtuoso. The only worry is that sometimes lose the feeling. Times have changed I am very optimist that, the new generation will bring good music in the near future. you make some good points, but: your argument can just as easily be applied against Queen. most of Queen's "live" catalogue could easily be performed live by capable bands. think about it: no matter, what trickery was used in the studio, there were (in the main) four musicians and 3 voices on stage - Queen's live performances were always stripped back compared to the studio originals. most able student/club bands can achieve this. i'd counter that - most amateur bands will usually try to "cover" a live version of a song rather than the original. there's simply "too much going on" in classics like Stairway, Smoke, etc to try and replicate the studio version. Purple just don't go out and perform a copy of the original - because it's impossible to do that live. And as for "Rain" - it should not be put into the same "easy to perform" category as Yesterday. To do that, is to wildly underestimate the song.
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Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on May 8, 2021 12:31:25 GMT
Yes I think that the word conventional is better. For me early and mid 80s is a very interesting period not for song writing, but for what's going on in the studio. Was really the band entered a grey and dark period working together? What ideas they brought, which and why did they chose, were any differences in the final songs or they were very specific of what they wanted? Did they compromise? And many other questions...
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on May 8, 2021 14:44:42 GMT
i don't recall that criticism - and i am old enough to remember the 70s. Much as ADATR "may" be considered "Opera 2" by some, it really isn't is it? the songs sound more evolved and mature. the band were producing themselves. Races - although retaining much of the classic sound of the previous 4 LPs, is the transitional album in Queen's development. Although I've always thought of Jazz and Queen's "Rubber Soul" - Races is the Queen's first steps into new territory. Agreed. Well, about ADATR, anyway. Never heard Rubber Soul so can't make the comparison. BOO HISS GASP Stop everything and listen to it right now - it's one of the 10 most important albums ever. It's where The Beatles start to grow up and first experience their autonomy, and the entirety of popular music forever changes because of what they begin to create here. and of course, influence isn't just a one-step thing, it can be reciprocal: Most music fans are aware that the Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds" inspired the Beatles' "Sgt Pepper", but many are completely unaware that Brian Wilson cites "Rubber Soul" as the LP that inspired him to create "Pet Sounds".
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Post by The Real Wizard on May 8, 2021 16:30:26 GMT
OK there are plenty songs from the Beatles catalog which are complicated in terms of production, orchestration,however the first things that, a school band or any kid, teenager tries to play is the less complicated. I remember the bands in my teenage years always played paranoid, smoke on the water and from the Beatles yesterday, rain etc. The vocals on the beatles songs makes a teenager more comfortable than singing Queen or Led Zeppelin. In my opinion John Lennon was great singer and has some difficult roads,but the color of his voice creates a feeling of "I can do this with my band". Also strawberry fields can be stripped down and be played by acoustic guitar and noboby give a dam. Nowadays the teenagers are very good on their instruments, some of them are virtuoso. The only worry is that sometimes lose the feeling. Times have changed I am very optimist that, the new generation will bring good music in the near future. All fair points. There's a good reason why The Beatles have inspired millions of musicians to play - most of the catalogue was accessible to listeners and musicians alike.
Indeed, you'll find a lot fewer people covering Queen tunes - especially the album tracks.
It's a bizarre phenomenon - in a world with a ton of musicians as good as Jacob Collier and Snarky Puppy, you can count on one hand the number of people who have attempted (never mind succeeded in) covering some of the more obscure material from the early Queen albums - that's at least partly why Tyler Warren and Neil Fairclough's covers from last year got so much attention.
But I don't think it's a matter of technical ability - it's stylistic. Queen carved out their own unique corner of musical real estate, so unique that few people have bothered to take the time to deeply understand it as it seems to carry this air of being out of reach. Yet today they are now the most streamed/followed of all the old bands - a most fascinating dichotomy.
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Luchie24
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Post by Luchie24 on Dec 26, 2021 21:57:11 GMT
Hello! I was reading Roger's interview for Mojo (2013) and I found this So, what song(s) did he contribute with backing vocals for? I don't remember reading about this before...
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cmi
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Post by cmi on Feb 11, 2023 5:11:13 GMT
I think Roger means that he flew to Munich to record Mercury's backing vocals for his 'Killing Time' solo track. Not to contribute himself for one of Freddie's solo tracks.
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Post by mercurialfreddie on Feb 11, 2023 21:32:38 GMT
and now, thanks to the interview with the session drummer, we know that Roger's drums are there on the early versions of most tracks.
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Post by mercurialfreddie on Feb 11, 2023 21:39:23 GMT
Recently, I gave a spin the original vinyl cut and compared it to the newly re-mixed version and I was shocked how much autotune they have applied to Freddie's voice.
The most striking example for me are the two lines in There Must Be More To Life Than This:
1) "Why is the world so full of hate" (listen closely to the word "Why") + vocal crescendo till the "C'est la vie, so this is life" line
2) The final line in the coda "There must be more to life..... more to life than this".
If what had been finally laid in the studio in 1984 (and chosen from various vocal takes) was given a green light back then by Freddie himself... then doesn't changing that seem not right ?
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oreno
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Post by oreno on Feb 12, 2023 11:55:33 GMT
Well Freddie gave the green light to the instrumental parts, mix and sound of the whole album, and the synth orchestra on Barcelona as well. All of these have been changed or completely replaced in the reissues.
However I think there's enough respect given to the originals in the changes made that it's not a big issue really.
As for autotune, if you can only spot it by doing a side-by side comparison, I also don't see it as an issue, though your mileage may vary. If you can spot it on a 'cold' listening, I agree that's not great - but who can?
Which also raises the question of why they did it in the first place. It's not like there's been any complaints, but it now just seems to be the done thing to home in on any perceived 'errors' and 'fix' them on reissues. Since Freddie is not around to sign these things off, it seems we just have to accept that these decisions will be made by those who are chosen to do so..
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thebeast
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Post by thebeast on Feb 19, 2023 15:21:51 GMT
Someone thinks that Freddie's solo album to be Hot Space № 2. I think a lot of people didn't like Freddie's frankness.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Feb 19, 2023 15:42:55 GMT
Someone thinks that Freddie's solo album to be Hot Space № 2. I think a lot of people didn't like Freddie's frankness. there are some similarities, but not enough to call it Hot Space II. The biggest difference between MBG and HS (for me) is this: For HS all FOUR band members seemed to have taken complete disregard of the quality control they'd been fixated on for the previous 9 years. for MBG only ONE of those band members was ignoring quality control.
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thebeast
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Post by thebeast on Feb 19, 2023 16:24:02 GMT
Someone thinks that Freddie's solo album to be Hot Space № 2. I think a lot of people didn't like Freddie's frankness. there are some similarities, but not enough to call it Hot Space II. The biggest difference between MBG and HS (for me) is this: For HS all FOUR band members seemed to have taken complete disregard of the quality control they'd been fixated on for the previous 9 years. for MBG only ONE of those band members was ignoring quality control. Roger said that Freddie invited him to knock a little. Is it true ? Roger also said that nothing really happened there, that is, Freddie frankly could not write anything without them. No progress. Despite everything I think Freddie's solo album is a good album. If things had turned out a little differently, Freddie would have written another one solo album i think. After all, even the demo from his box set says that he had the material, but it turned out what happened.
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Post by Brian's Wig on Feb 19, 2023 16:40:34 GMT
Someone thinks that Freddie's solo album to be Hot Space № 2. I think a lot of people didn't like Freddie's frankness. there are some similarities, but not enough to call it Hot Space II. The biggest difference between MBG and HS (for me) is this: For HS all FOUR band members seemed to have taken complete disregard of the quality control they'd been fixated on for the previous 9 years. for MBG only ONE of those band members was ignoring quality control. Some of us absolutely LOVE Hot Space and MBG...
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Feb 19, 2023 16:44:06 GMT
If things had turned out a little differently, Freddie would have written another one solo album i think. After all, even the demo from his box set says that he had the material, but it turned out what happened. i just don't see it. Mr Bad Guy was motivated by two things: 1. a (comparatively) huge record company advance fee 2. a "can I produce anything outside of Queen" itch that needed scratching. truth is that Barcelona happened because of the passion he had for the genre and the discipline of Mike Moran and Montserrat. In fact his non-Queen projects from 85 til 92 usually involved a non-solo element to produce quality output: The Great Pretender (Mike Moran & David Richards) Barcelona (Montserrat Caballé, Mike Moran, David Richards) Heaven For Everyone (Roger Taylor, David Richards) Time (Dave Clark) In My Defence (Dave Clark) All of the above benefit from having more than one pair of ears involved in said quality control. I don;t think Freddie was doing anything truly solo again after MBG. As a writer/arranger/musician he'd lost his meticulous attention to detail and quality so evident until 1978.
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thebeast
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Post by thebeast on Feb 19, 2023 16:45:06 GMT
there are some similarities, but not enough to call it Hot Space II. The biggest difference between MBG and HS (for me) is this: For HS all FOUR band members seemed to have taken complete disregard of the quality control they'd been fixated on for the previous 9 years. for MBG only ONE of those band members was ignoring quality control. Some of us absolutely LOVE Hot Space and MBG... Announce the whole list, please ;-)
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thebeast
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Post by thebeast on Feb 19, 2023 16:54:56 GMT
By the way, if there was no Freddie's solo album, then Brian and Roger and John would have nowhere to get material for Made in Heaven.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Feb 19, 2023 17:02:34 GMT
By the way, if there was no Freddie's solo album, then Brian and Roger and John would have nowhere to get material for Made in Heaven. i think you've somehow missed the point there. Aside from Heaven For Everyone and Too Much Love, which were already good songs in their own right, we've IWBTLY and MIH. Let's be brutally honest here: Had MBG been a quality LP to begin with then these two songs would never have been retouched for MIH would they? There would never have been a need to. Queen took the two best songs from MBG - which were quite good, but not great and turned them into quality Queen songs. Your argument appears to present MBG LP as being a reason for MIH LP - it was nothing of the kind. Using your criteria, why didn't they [Queen] use more from MBG? They didn't, because (in truth) turds don;t stand up well to being buffed with a polisher.
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Post by dragonkiller on Feb 20, 2023 11:54:44 GMT
What BrƎИsꓘi said "They didn't, because (in truth) turds don;t stand up well to being buffed with a polisher. " made me laugh. It reminded me of the time I used the garden strimmer and when over some hidden dog turds. Stuff went everywhere.
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Post by angusscrimm on Feb 24, 2023 15:40:17 GMT
Some of us absolutely LOVE Hot Space and MBG... Announce the whole list, please ;-) I'll join the list.
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Feb 25, 2023 11:00:30 GMT
By the way, if there was no Freddie's solo album, then Brian and Roger and John would have nowhere to get material for Made in Heaven. i think you've somehow missed the point there. Aside from Heaven For Everyone and Too Much Love, which were already good songs in their own right, we've IWBTLY and MIH. Let's be brutally honest here: Had MBG been a quality LP to begin with then these two songs would never have been retouched for MIH would they? There would never have been a need to. Queen took the two best songs from MBG - which were quite good, but not great and turned them into quality Queen songs. Your argument appears to present MBG LP as being a reason for MIH LP - it was nothing of the kind. Using your criteria, why didn't they [Queen] use more from MBG? They didn't, because (in truth) turds don;t stand up well to being buffed with a polisher.
I'm pretty sure Mr. Bad Guy (the title track, not the entire album) could have made a good Queen-song that would easily hold up against the best couple of tracks off The Works or A Kind Of Magic - but it would have required re-working the vocal delivery as well as the instrumental parts, which is obviously impossible when the vocalist is rather on the deceased side. It's not just that there's poor songwriting on a number of tracks off MBG, nor that the contributing musicians aren't great enough - the whole thing has just been so completely half-arsed. With some more effort, and mostly passion, some of the songs we now consider weak could be good, and those we consider decent could have been great - better than on MIH, because they still had to make do with Freddie essentially idling even on the vocals.
Imagine MBG as a guitar-driven song supported rather than carried by keyboards (the two synth-chords after "let's go chasing rainbows in the sky" alone scream for Brian to play them!), full 'Queen-orchestration' on the choruses, with a more forceful vocal delivery (like Freddie gives it on, say, "Princes of the Universe" or even "Scandal"). I think if it were well executed, it'd be considered one of Queen's best '80s tracks, instead of a rather sad, dated reminder that some pretty awful stuff was made in the mid-80s by otherwise great artists.
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cmi
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Post by cmi on Feb 25, 2023 16:52:20 GMT
Mr Bad Guy track almost entirely was performed by Munich Philharmonic Orchestra and Curt Cress on drums with exception of synth bass in the first part of the song and several chords on synthesizer in the intro. It's a solo master-piece by Mr. Mercury for sure featuring great arrangement and performance.
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Post by macduff77 on Feb 25, 2023 17:20:19 GMT
And as we can see from everyone’s great discussion here, MBG (the album) is such a polarizing release. I look at both sides of the arguments and find myself agreeing with both sides, so even to me, it’s a polarizing album.
I do really enjoy the special edition and I am happy listening to that. But I don’t play Freddie’s stuff as much as Queen or Roger’s stuff.
Oh, and I’m a huge fan of Hot Space. 😬
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Post by saintjiub on Feb 25, 2023 18:24:44 GMT
And as we can see from everyone’s great discussion here, MBG (the album) is such a polarizing release. I look at both sides of the arguments and find myself agreeing with both sides, so even to me, it’s a polarizing album. I do really enjoy the special edition and I am happy listening to that. But I don’t play Freddie’s stuff as much as Queen or Roger’s stuff. Oh, and I’m a huge fan of Hot Space. 😬 I listened to twice MBG last week, but only listened to half of it.
To me, MBG grades as a B album, as she blows hot and cold:
Cold: LGIo, MIH (but love "dark, sinister" Queen version), FA, TMBMtLtT, & LMLtNT
Hot: IwBtLY (prefer upbeat FM piano version over Queen version. YkoL, MBG, MMP, LoMO (but prefer later remixed version)
Lukewarm: MLID
As for Hot Space ... it blows ... mostly cold ... UP, ATD & POtF are the only standout songs on HS in my "unbiased" opinion.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Feb 25, 2023 22:36:29 GMT
Some of us absolutely LOVE Hot Space and MBG... Announce the whole list, please ;-) four people do not a list make
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nickip
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Post by nickip on Feb 26, 2023 7:21:10 GMT
My dislike of the album is so great that I had to work really REALLY hard to figure out some of those abbreviated track names… I think I listened to it once when I first bought it…
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Post by angusscrimm on Feb 26, 2023 12:56:10 GMT
Three years later, you're still discussing it. Proving that MBG is always in your minds
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Steve
Wordles & Heardles
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Post by Steve on Feb 26, 2023 13:16:45 GMT
Lol. Always loved the album.
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