Dimitris
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Post by Dimitris on Feb 16, 2021 8:45:41 GMT
Bck in 2014 Brian stated about the bunch of songs that they were working, but not so much to compile an album. I believe that were LIYHA, TMBMTLTT, Love kills rework, State of shock and maybe Victory. About state of shock there was an agreement that, the song is going to be used by MJ future release, while TMBMTLTT was for Queen. The 3 MJ and FM songs were reworked as back as very early 2000s and then again in 2014.
I think every 24 - 48 or whatever multitrack of unreleased song has incompleted vocals, which make it difficult for any kind of rework. Face it alone, IGWFO maybe belong to this category. Only a good producer could figure out how to use songs like these. You don't fool me and let me live are a good examples.
So it is more possible to release this very early concert, due to historical significance and anniversary, despite the mistakes and lower sound quality which can be improved easier than a damaged or incomplete multitrack.
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Post by mercurialfreddie on Feb 17, 2021 14:38:26 GMT
There is one thing I don't get. Why can't QPL release just ONE new song with unheard vocals by Freddie? Just one (like they previously did with LMIYHA). I understand that the unreleased material may not be too good, but there definitely IS at least one proper recording, which would suit for a non-album single. Because they've scraped the barrel dry. After the Made In Heaven album they've put out Feelings Feelings and Let Me In Your Heart Again - that's probably about all there is worth releasing. We've heard a bunch of outtakes beyond that, and most of them remain unreleased for one simple reason - they weren't very good.
Many years ago, Greg Brooks has stated that there are loads of unheard stuff in the archives and a potential of full-blooded album and a CD of bonus tracks. He has stated that there are some materials which after having been worked upon could become hits. Yes - this comes from a guy who has not been aware that there is live recording of The Fairy Feller's Master Stroke right under his nose.
There was also this guy, whose nickname was Roger's Untidy Bottom and he claimed to be somebody close to the band and who was often present in the recording studio with them. Back in the day, on QZ he has posted a long post about The Game originally being a double-album, so there is at least twice the material which has been officially released.
My opinion is that Brian May's perfectionism and the ever-brought-up reason of "protecting the legacy" prevents us from hearing and seeing all the priceless stuff which is still there. Jim Beach and the management is solely focus on commercial gain and capitalizing on everything that is happening now: collaboration with Adam, "regaining" the US with the movie and inviting younger generations to the band (it's not bad in itself but they are buying AL and not demos or outtakes).
As for scraping the barrels dry... How do we know that this has happened ? If today Queen released a new album full of amazing tracks with Freddie on them then how on earth would they promote it? They cannot sing it live, there is no visual material to promote the album. Holograms are out of the question and touring those songs with Adam would purely result in provoking further comparisons between him and Freddie.
Many years ago, Greg Brooks has given us a list of all pro-recorded live shows (incl. bits). Surely since then it has been updated but since the post only few have been released (and 3 of those are remasters).
I would say, we haven't been down the Queen Archives, we don't know what is there and what is not and as history has proven - neither knows the archivist.
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georg
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Post by georg on Feb 17, 2021 15:23:46 GMT
There was also this guy, whose nickname was Roger's Untidy Bottom and he claimed to be somebody close to the band and who was often present in the recording studio with them. Back in the day, on QZ he has posted a long post about The Game originally being a double-album, so there is at least twice the material which has been officially released. I would take this not with a grain but with a whole mine of salt. For what it's worth, I did contact Greg about these tracks and he told me there's nothing in the archives with the song titles Roger's Untidy Bottom listed, but as we've learned that's only the gospel according to Greg Brooks, not the official final word. That being said, someone with the name of Roger's Untidy Bottom and the fact that this fellow just appeared out of the ether one day spouting off all this info with no credentials whatsoever should raise flags. On top of that, if the band thought that crap like Don't Try Suicide and Coming Soon were good enough for The Game – never mind including two singles that were, by that point, at least six months old, and not to mention 10 tracks on the album at a paltry 35 minutes – but the whole other "album" that Roger's Untidy Bottom insists exists wasn't good, how good can those alleged unreleased songs really be then?
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Feb 17, 2021 17:35:26 GMT
Given they had the material to make the alternative takes CD for the NOTW box, is there any reason to think they don't have similar material for the other albums?
I'd be perfectly happy with a box set of the studio albums, with bonus CDs for each album featuring alternate takes / versions, but preferably not at £100 per album with a load of other stuff (such as vinyl) I don't really want.
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jlf
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Post by jlf on Feb 17, 2021 18:17:45 GMT
There was also this guy, whose nickname was Roger's Untidy Bottom and he claimed to be somebody close to the band and who was often present in the recording studio with them. Back in the day, on QZ he has posted a long post about The Game originally being a double-album, so there is at least twice the material which has been officially released. I would take this not with a grain but with a whole mine of salt. For what it's worth, I did contact Greg about these tracks and he told me there's nothing in the archives with the song titles Roger's Untidy Bottom listed, but as we've learned that's only the gospel according to Greg Brooks, not the official final word. That being said, someone with the name of Roger's Untidy Bottom and the fact that this fellow just appeared out of the ether one day spouting off all this info with no credentials whatsoever should raise flags. On top of that, if the band thought that crap like Don't Try Suicide and Coming Soon were good enough for The Game – never mind including two singles that were, by that point, at least six months old, and not to mention 10 tracks on the album at a paltry 35 minutes – but the whole other "album" that Roger's Untidy Bottom insists exists wasn't good, how good can those alleged unreleased songs really be then? It may be the case that there's another 40 minutes of material that didn't end up on "The Game". We know that from the Magic sessions there's "Love Makin' Love", and there was another one that appeared relatively recently but I can't remember the name of it. There's also the tracks that were almost finished that didn't make "The Miracle" like "I guess we're falling out", and if you were to piece together all of these things that haven't been released, including "Self-Made Man" which has a rather nice middle 8 from Freddie, you could end up with ten or twelve tracks. The point is though that none of these songs were very good, the vocals from Freddie are demo quality at best, and while "Falling Out" might be able to be salvaged and made into something, as might "Love Making Love", I just can't see them turning out as quality tracks and to me they'd be nothing more than a curiosity. They might be interesting from a historical perspective as it is now, but even at the time they were made, these songs would never be hits. If Queen released an Anthology type thing as the Beatles did 25 years ago, or the Freddie solo boxed set from 20 years ago, I could see the logic in putting out raw forms of the songs, and maybe even having some of them finished for the sake of a companion EP, or something, but I'm happy to accept that the days of Queen releasing chart busting material with unheard Freddie vocals on it, are over. That might sound bleak to some here, but Freddie has now been gone for 30 years and I think what they're willing to release has been released already. The Queen Forever album probably finished off what was salvageable, and the boxed set of News of The World gave us a couple of nice tracks, which were lovely to hear, but that's kind of the end of it. It might have been interesting if Dave Clark had asked Brian and Roger to make a Queen version of Time for the release in 2019. I haven't bought a new Queen product in a very long time anyway. I'd thought about buying NOTW boxed set and some of the live albums released in the early 2010s but it just never seemed to grab my attention. I'm maybe just growing out of the whole thing. I'd hoped for this year to be a big Queen year, that they'd put together some releases, and it may still happen but it feels like they're not going to bother. I'll hold my breath until December and see what comes up. I'm happy enough with the back catalogue on iTunes for now.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Feb 17, 2021 19:33:41 GMT
All we'll probably get is a 'Tour That Didn't Happen' edition of Live Around The World, with half a dozen extra tracks that didn't make the CD the first time around.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 17, 2021 20:51:21 GMT
the boxed set of News of The World gave us a couple of nice tracks, which were lovely to hear, but that's kind of the end of it. You've reiterated my point with this single sentence. If the NOTW box set only amounted to "a couple of nice tracks," then why are we even talking about half-baked 1980s outtakes from when they were well past their creative peak?
Brian and Roger are in their 70s now. They don't care about old outtakes. The fact that they released the Rainbow and NOTW box sets at all is pretty incredible, as they had no obligation to do that. Including the March '74 show in the former wasn't for the man on the street - that was for us. There are few other things in their archive in that quality that are half as historically significant.
Anything they do from here onward is a bonus. Setting the bar any higher than that will almost certainly lead to disappointment.
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ted
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Post by ted on Feb 18, 2021 1:23:59 GMT
I'd be perfectly happy with a box set of the studio albums, with bonus CDs for each album featuring alternate takes / versions, but preferably not at £100 per album with a load of other stuff (such as vinyl) I don't really want.
My sentiments exactly.
Ted
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georg
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Post by georg on Feb 18, 2021 2:58:11 GMT
Given they had the material to make the alternative takes CD for the NOTW box, is there any reason to think they don't have similar material for the other albums? I'd be perfectly happy with a box set of the studio albums, with bonus CDs for each album featuring alternate takes / versions, but preferably not at £100 per album with a load of other stuff (such as vinyl) I don't really want. I would absolutely take a double-disc edition of each album with a bonus disc of alternate takes and demos (where applicable) of each song in addition to unreleased tracks (save single mixes and extended mixes and B-sides for the first disc, or leave them for a singles compilation entirely). If they’re gonna get crazy, throw in a disc or two of a full concert, and a DVD/5.1 mix with bonus videos. Kinda like what Jethro Tull has been doing. Phew, what started off as a simple ask turned into a huge pie-in-the-sky idea...
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Post by peacelovingguy on Feb 23, 2021 16:49:49 GMT
The idea that the Game was going to be a double album seems to come from a contemporaneous 1979 or 1980 Roger interview from a newspaper or magazine that someone posted somewhere on here I think not that long ago. But unlike the band’s comments about recording a lot for the Miracle, Roger doesn’t imply that they recorded a double album’s worth of tracks. The inference is they abandoned the idea of doing a double album after the idea was mooted.
He seems to imply the idea was shelved because of the economy or financial reasons or something. He doesn’t elaborate. It could have been because Jazz didn’t sell so well and the record company didn’t think it was worth the extra cost, but I’m totally speculating.
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Post by martinpacker on Feb 24, 2021 9:20:08 GMT
I think there's barely enough runtime on The Game as it is, let alone enough to make a double album. If that were the case there'd be at least 1 more track on the album. Maybe - if Roger were referring to anything at all - he thought Flash would be part of The Game.
Anyone want to invent a running order for Flash The Game (Everybody Flash The Game) :-) ?
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Post by ThomasQuinn on Feb 24, 2021 10:14:58 GMT
What if a couple of the tracks that ended up on Fun In Space were meant for The Game?
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Post by pokemaniacjunk on Feb 24, 2021 11:21:01 GMT
Maybe Roger was referring to the songs he wrote on his album Fun In Space, Perhaps he was hoping to record them with Queen.
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Post by stevedorius on Feb 24, 2021 14:17:52 GMT
Good Times Are Now would have been interesting as a queen song !
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pg
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Post by pg on Feb 24, 2021 17:04:58 GMT
The Game is 10 tracks, 3 of which had already been singles by the time it came out. It's only 35 minutes long (each SIDE of Greatest Hits in almost 30 mins), and the first album since SHA to eschew a gatefold sleeve.
...all of which makes it feel very...rushed. others may use the word spontaneous!
We know that Flash album was going on at a similar time, and that Brian did a lot of pulling together of fragments to assemble that, which would have diluted his ability to contribute either songs or playing to any further tracks.
So, while I acknowledge that RT said they had enough material for a double, I just don't believe it. AOBTD would have a non album B side, there'd probably be another vocal track on the Flash album, or Made In Heaven wouldn't have needed to pad out YDFM into a "song"... It was just press release nonsense then, as it pretty much was when they said the same for The Miracle later on.
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rogercz
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Post by rogercz on Feb 24, 2021 17:10:52 GMT
The Game is 10 tracks, 3 of which had already been singles by the time it came out. It's only 35 minutes long (each SIDE of Greatest Hits in almost 30 mins), and the first album since SHA to eschew a gatefold sleeve. ...all of which makes it feel very...rushed. others may use the word spontaneous! We know that Flash album was going on at a similar time, and that Brian did a lot of pulling together of fragments to assemble that, which would have diluted his ability to contribute either songs or playing to any further tracks. So, while I acknowledge that RT said they had enough material for a double, I just don't believe it. AOBTD would have a non album B side, there'd probably be another vocal track on the Flash album, or Made In Heaven wouldn't have needed to pad out YDFM into a "song"... It was just press release nonsense then, as it pretty much was when they said the same for The Miracle later on. I think it is possible they discussed it as a possibility, or they penned the amount of song but not recorded them and and barely did proper demos. It could be, both for Miracle and Game, that they wrote basic letters or core backing track but lef it unfinished and unusable even for MIH.
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georg
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Post by georg on Feb 24, 2021 20:32:19 GMT
The Game is 10 tracks, 3 of which had already been singles by the time it came out. It's only 35 minutes long (each SIDE of Greatest Hits in almost 30 mins), and the first album since SHA to eschew a gatefold sleeve. ...all of which makes it feel very...rushed. others may use the word spontaneous! We know that Flash album was going on at a similar time, and that Brian did a lot of pulling together of fragments to assemble that, which would have diluted his ability to contribute either songs or playing to any further tracks. So, while I acknowledge that RT said they had enough material for a double, I just don't believe it. AOBTD would have a non album B side, there'd probably be another vocal track on the Flash album, or Made In Heaven wouldn't have needed to pad out YDFM into a "song"... It was just press release nonsense then, as it pretty much was when they said the same for The Miracle later on. Not only that, but the double album idea had been floated around in a press release for Jazz – it said something like "the band had enough ideas for a double album, but they pared it back". It was on Queenzone somewhere; I'll have to search for it.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Feb 24, 2021 22:29:36 GMT
Anything they do from here onward is a bonus. Setting the bar any higher than that will almost certainly lead to disappointment. and ironically, the apparent "over my dead body" mentality of the perfectionist Dr May will ensure that: the only time any of the "workable" outtakes may have an opportunity for being released would be after the demise of the one person who may have the ability to bring them up to standard. a paradoxical antimony?
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Feb 24, 2021 22:43:39 GMT
Anything they do from here onward is a bonus. Setting the bar any higher than that will almost certainly lead to disappointment. and ironically, the apparent "over my dead body" mentality of the perfectionist Dr May will ensure that: the only time any of the "workable" outtakes may have an opportunity for being released would be after the demise of the one person who may have the ability to bring them up to standard. a paradoxical antimony? I certainly think it would be better for QPL to release stuff while Brian and Roger are around to oversee it, but if they don't want to, then there's not really much anyone can do about it.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 25, 2021 6:20:33 GMT
Anything they do from here onward is a bonus. Setting the bar any higher than that will almost certainly lead to disappointment. and ironically, the apparent "over my dead body" mentality of the perfectionist Dr May will ensure that: the only time any of the "workable" outtakes may have an opportunity for being released would be after the demise of the one person who may have the ability to bring them up to standard. a paradoxical antimony? Hard to say if they would've completed old tracks had Freddie lived. I'd say probably not. When he was alive there was rarely a need to look back at old material, as they could just write new songs.
It's the same reason why Michael Jackson's '80s and '90s outtakes didn't come out until 2010, or Hendrix outtakes came out in the '70s, or Jeff Buckley, etc. When an artist dies the entire game changes - not least because estates and record companies / publishers want to cash in. If the artist was on a major label and they're bound by contractual obligations even in death (it's not uncommon), more times than not it's the label saying they want new material, not the remaining band members who say they want to finish old tracks. Good luck trying to get a straight answer on such matters, though. That's the fine print we never see.
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BrƎИsꓘi
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Post by BrƎИsꓘi on Feb 25, 2021 6:45:42 GMT
Hard to say if they would've completed old tracks had Freddie lived. I'd say probably not. When he was alive there was rarely a need to look back at old material, as they could just write new songs. of course. but as it was Brian that I'm referring to, it makes the concept of "looking back" a little more pressing. sure, Roger would be be a great contributor to any reworkings, but (I believe that) it's Brian who has the complete mental blueprints for what Queen "should" sound like. when Brian's gone, anything remotely interesting that remains unfinished will remain unfinished for eternity. of course, QPL/Record Companies will cash in at this point, but we'd be buying nothing more than curiosity-appeasing detritus.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 25, 2021 6:55:09 GMT
Hard to say if they would've completed old tracks had Freddie lived. I'd say probably not. When he was alive there was rarely a need to look back at old material, as they could just write new songs. of course. but as it was Brian that I'm referring to, it makes the concept of "looking back" a little more pressing. sure, Roger would be be a great contributor to any reworkings, but (I believe that) it's Brian who has the complete mental blueprints for what Queen "should" sound like. No doubt he's the boss and running the brand. Someone has to shepherd it along, and Roger doesn't seem to be quite as invested in it.
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Lord Fickle
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Post by Lord Fickle on Feb 25, 2021 20:03:37 GMT
I think whatever Brian says, happens. He seems to be the one in control. For example, the classic album docu about a night at the opera. Hes the one on tbe mixing desk going through the songs. Always has to be in charge, probably why john wants nothing to do with the band. I don't really think he's the control freak that you seem to be implying. He likes the intricacies of the recordings, which is probably why he did the ANATO doc. Roger just probably couldn't be arsed, and would rather just let Brian get on with it. As far as I think anyone is aware, John retired because he found it difficult to carry on in the band without Freddie. That doesn't mean he resents Brian in any way. Of course, all we can do is speculate. Unless anyone has been in a studio with him, we don't really have any idea, but I can't recall lots of people saying Brian is particularly difficult to work with.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 22:01:09 GMT
Brian's quite generous with his time, so it's not a big surprise that he'd spare a couple of hours to sit and show people the different tracks and parts involved. John would get too anxious and shy; Roger, as you said, would pass, as would Frederick were he alive.
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 25, 2021 23:18:55 GMT
Brian's quite generous with his time, so it's not a big surprise that he'd spare a couple of hours to sit and show people the different tracks and parts involved. But leave it to "fans" to find a way to turn this into a negative.
How dare he play us the isolated guitar tracks from the end of Good Company for the one and only time ? The nerve of him.
Of all the examples to pick.
SMH.
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Post by 85guild on Feb 26, 2021 2:34:28 GMT
I think whatever Brian says, happens. He seems to be the one in control. For example, the classic album docu about a night at the opera. Hes the one on tbe mixing desk going through the songs. Always has to be in charge, probably why john wants nothing to do with the band. I don't really think he's the control freak that you seem to be implying. He likes the intricacies of the recordings, which is probably why he did the ANATO doc. Roger just probably couldn't be arsed, and would rather just let Brian get on with it. As far as I think anyone is aware, John retired because he found it difficult to carry on in the band without Freddie. That doesn't mean he resents Brian in any way. Of course, all we can do is speculate. Unless anyone has been in a studio with him, we don't really have any idea, but I can't recall lots of people saying Brian is particularly difficult to work with. I think that Brian himself has alluded to being a perfectionist, and that can make him or anyone difficult to work with. Look at Under Pressure, obviously a huge battle of wills and egos between him and Bowie, and there is also the clip where Freddie and Brian are having a backstage row, one of likely hundreds the band had, but that one was directed at Brian being a pain in the ass. Creative process plus a guy who doesn't half ass anything = difficult
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Post by The Real Wizard on Feb 26, 2021 2:54:03 GMT
I don't really think he's the control freak that you seem to be implying. He likes the intricacies of the recordings, which is probably why he did the ANATO doc. Roger just probably couldn't be arsed, and would rather just let Brian get on with it. As far as I think anyone is aware, John retired because he found it difficult to carry on in the band without Freddie. That doesn't mean he resents Brian in any way. Of course, all we can do is speculate. Unless anyone has been in a studio with him, we don't really have any idea, but I can't recall lots of people saying Brian is particularly difficult to work with. I think that Brian himself has alluded to being a perfectionist, and that can make him or anyone difficult to work with. Look at Under Pressure, obviously a huge battle of wills and egos between him and Bowie, and there is also the clip where Freddie and Brian are having a backstage row, one of likely hundreds the band had, but that one was directed at Brian being a pain in the ass. Creative process plus a guy who doesn't half ass anything = difficult Being a perfectionist is one thing - but a far cry from the baseless implication of him always needing to be in control.
No doubt there's audio of Mercury being a jerk in the studio, but they have enough respect for him not to release any of that. Especially by the '80s he was very often not easy to work with. I'm sure they all had their moments. Like you said, we've just heard of a select few.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 8:54:57 GMT
I think the four of them (not just Brian and Frederick) were talented enough and confident enough (yes, even John) to be rather bold/assertive when they felt they had a fair point or idea, as well as cooperative enough to let the author of each particular track to have ultimate say even if they disagreed. That's how they managed to stay together for so long (still ongoing in Maylor's case). Quite a rare yet fascinating example of keeping the balance between being heard and letting their colleagues take the lead depending on the situation.
Regarding the multi-tracks stuff, I could speculate it might've been a similar situation: Roger didn't want to do it, but Brian did so Brian was the one there. He won, Roger won, the DVD won, the audience won... except for those who'll throw a tantrum no matter what, that is!
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Post by deathtoming on Apr 2, 2021 22:28:47 GMT
Brian May was on BBC 5's show again for under 10 minutes. It doesn't look like we're close to hearing that very early recording Brian mentioned a while back. www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000tp3k28m26s: the hosts welcome Brian to the show, and Brian talks about Panic Attack 2021 34m05s: Brian talks about Back to the Light: "we've been repolishing it, remastering it, digging out all the little bits that perhaps got lost over the years"; expecting a summer release 35m16s: any update on the very old concert Brian mentioned last time? Brian: "We're at nowhere with it. I think I got into trouble by talking about it."
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Post by The Real Wizard on Apr 2, 2021 23:17:32 GMT
Brian May was on BBC 5's show again for under 10 minutes. It doesn't look like we're close to hearing that very early recording Brian mentioned a while back. www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000tp3k28m26s: the hosts welcome Brian to the show, and Brian talks about Panic Attack 2021 34m05s: Brian talks about Back to the Light: "we've been repolishing it, remastering it, digging out all the little bits that perhaps got lost over the years"; expecting a summer release 35m16s: any update on the very old concert Brian mentioned last time? Brian: "We're at nowhere with it. I think I got into trouble by talking about it."
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